"You can't be poor and be a scientologist" -the view from the rich public

That is exactly true.

I've also told HelluvaHoax in that PM session that I have little trust for Allen and that this is why I'm reaching out to HelluvaHoax in the first place to tell me more, because I trust his version of the story much more than Allen's.

For some reason he is now lying about it and trying to present to you guys as if I revealed some big secret communication I supposedly had with Allen. I have no idea why he is doing this, but I can assure you all of it is false.

You clearly made a big mistake in reaching out to HH, you should've gone straight to me instead. Then you'd be able to get hooked up straight into the mother back end matrix of all back channeling that was ever performed this lifetime. :bleh:
 
That is exactly true.

I've also told HelluvaHoax in that PM session that I have little trust for Allen and that this is why I'm reaching out to HelluvaHoax in the first place to tell me more, because I trust his version of the story much more than Allen's.

For some reason he is now lying about it and trying to present to you guys as if I revealed some big secret communication I supposedly had with Allen. I have no idea why he is doing this, but I can assure you all of it is false.

FWIW I don't think either of you are lying ... I just think there has been a misunderstanding.

:)
 
For some reason he is now lying about it and trying to present to you guys as if I revealed some big secret communication I supposedly had with Allen. I have no idea why he is doing this, but I can assure you all of it is false.


you are still flinging shit that I lied but you did not answer my post.

unless you are trolling this is very simple.

Diid you get in contact with Alanzo exactly the way you posted happened or not?

If what you was posted was true that means you falsely keep accusing me of lying.

If what you posted about being in contact with Alanzo then you are lying

Either way, you fail to answer with specifics.

So, let's try a third time:

DID YOU POST THAT YOU WERE IN CONTACT WITH ALANZO AND SOLICITED AND RECEIVED MESSAGES WHICH YOU THEN POSTED ON ESMB?

Why can't you answer such a simple question?

If you were not in contact with him WHY DID YOU POST THAT?

How would I be lying if I am repeating what you posted?

If you refuse to answer, then as far as I am concerned you are trolling.

If you care to answer, I am quite willing to read it, understand it and reply.

But you seem incapable of actually sticking to the facts. You seem to covet discord.

THIS IS A TEST: CAN YOU ANSWER SIMPLE QUESTIONS?

If you once again refuse to answer, I will simply post the fact that you made false accusations and were unable to back it up. I trust board members to judge for themselves what they see you do.

Over to you.

If you are legit, you can answer simple questions.

STOPWATCH HAS BEEN CLICKED:

Showtime! LOL

.
 
To elaborate on my remarks about the Marty Rathbun article here is his article.

In plain English, here are scientology’s core religious beliefs.

1. Scientology’s sophisticated mix of pop psychology and hypnotism are firmly believed to be the only workable ‘technology’ for curing mental issues, neurosis, psychosis, physical disease, increasing awareness and intelligence, and for creating OT’s (operating thetans, L. Ron Hubbard’s version of Nietzsche’s superman or Aleister Crowley’s magician).Note: Scientology is at first presented in secular, scientific terms promising and then false reporting 100% workability. In fact scientology never achieved even the scientifically recognized 20 to 30 percent placebo effect in terms of long-term satisfaction. In order to explain away that discrepancy the less-than-placebo percentage who stick with it are led to adopt the remaining listed beliefs. The ‘technology’ evolved being carefully designed and administered so as to lead scientologists to wholeheartedly accept and live according to these beliefs.

2. Planet Earth is a prison. The vast majority of human beings – and billions of invisible other beings – are its inmates.

3. Xenu is the name of scientology’s Satan who established Earth as a prison and transported billions of beings to serve as its inmates.

4. Our continued imprisonment is assured by ‘psychs.’ ‘Psychs’ are defined as psychiatrists, psychologists, psycho-therapists, priests, ministers, and anyone else practicing in the field of the mind and spirit. Psychs were sent here from a planet called ‘Farsec.’ They are a special breed of being created and invested with the sole purpose of keeping humankind mentally imprisoned.

5. Ron Hubbard is the first to discover the above ‘truths’, and the only one to have devised a means of escaping the prison planet.

6. Navigation through the only hole in the wall consists of closely emulating Hubbard and behaving as he did when he lived.

7. Enemies, including psychs as well as anyone expressing any doubt or reservation about these beliefs, must be destroyed by any means necessary by scientologists. Such means include lying, suing, cheating, harassing, intimidating, blackmailing, smearing and by physical violence.

8. When a scientologist has expended all of his best efforts in the vain pursuit of these beliefs he is expected to ‘discard’ his body so that he may continue to pursue them without such a physical ‘impediment’.

Whether the ultimate belief, number 8 above, constitutes suicide is a wholly subjective question of religious belief. End quote

Regarding his claims

1. Scientologists almost universally don't believe Scientology is pop psychology and hypnosis. I very rarely encountered any who knew Dianetics was based off hypnosis and they thought Scientology wasn't.

2.This is an accurate Scientology belief.

3.This is absolutely wrong. Profoundly wrong. Most people in Scientology NEVER hear about Xenu and never do OT III. South Park got this wrong and Marty Rathbun and everyone who spent years or decades deep in Scientology should know that 95 - 99% of Scientologists NEVER learn about Xenu. This is inexcusable from Marty Rathbun as the mystery of the OT levels is used as a carrot to draw people into and through Scientology for decades.

4.The psychs are portrayed as whole track villains BUT the planet Farsec ? Never heard of it while I was in Scientology and almost every Scientologist I asked about it after leaving also never heard of it. A couple people have claimed to have seen a reference on Farsec online but I have never seen a copy anywhere. So, a claim that has almost no evidence, no records and just a handful of people claiming knowledge about it is not a core belief of Scientology. This claim is at best half true.

5. Accurate.

6.Accurate.

7.The truth about OSA, Guardian's Office, fair game and Scientology tactics is hidden from most people while they are in Scientology. I didn't know about snow white and hundreds of other things while in Scientology. People in Scientology feel like Scientology deserves defense but they usually don't know what is done to defend Scientology and utterly ruin opponents while in Scientology.

I consider it a false claim. The Scientology organizations that are tasked with defending Scientology, especially at the highest levels of the Sea Org, are doing these things but the vast majority of Scientologists, even including many staff and Sea Org members simply don't know about the crimes that are hidden from them.

8. I don't know about this one. I knew plenty of Scientologists and think Marty Rathbun was trying to stretch the truth here. Suicide is not as he said a subjective religious view. Suicide is an act which is attempted and sometimes successful. In the literature on suicide these real acts are measured. By having the metrics of both attempted and successful suicides the reality of the subject is established, you either try to kill yourself or you don't. You either succeed or fail if you attempt suicide. All of these are real things with easily quantified metrics. It is not a subjective religious belief.

I think Marty Rathbun was trying to act like Scientology inspires lots of suicides. Don't get me wrong, Scientology inspires some suicides, but Marty Rathbun calls this a core belief of Scientology. I didn't have people around me routinely talking about suicide or Hubbard writing keeping suicide working.


When he first came out with this Marty Rathbun was praised and people made all kinds of excuses for him, including a lot of people who should have known better.
 
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IDIOTIC THREAD ALERT!

Leah Remini helps countless victims of the sociopathic cult of Scientology.

She gives them a voice on nationally televised programing and a huge internet presence as well. That includes all victims of Scientology's cruel hoax; staff members, paying pubic, relatives of Scientologists, ex-Scientogists, et al. She is honorable, courageous and is actually doing wonderfully good things for good people. She is a champion for those who cannot take on a multi-billion dollar organized crime racket by themselves. Hero is a good word that comes to mind.

However. . .

This thread ignores all that but instead focuses on a Leah's terrible crime of failing to promote to wogs the "Big Lie" that you can do Scientology for free! Nothing is free in scientology, that could not be further than the truth.
All ex-Scientologists know the COST of doing Scientology is more than enough to cripple anyone. There is lavish money cost and lavish time cost. Donating 30-60 years of your life to an avaricious con game game is even more expensive than the loss of a million dollars. So what was Leah's horrific crime? She talked about the criminal pricelist of Scientology but not the equally debilitating price of devoting your entire life to a lie.

The poster does nothing of value to help Scientology's viciously damaged victims, but is very worried indeed that Scientology is not being treated fairly.
Jeez, does this begin to smell like a standard COS smear? Jeez, this is the same target (Leah) that the COS goon squad (OSA) attacks 24/7 with smears. Jeez, this is the same target (Leah) that the indy goon (Rathbun) attacks 24/7. Jeez this is the same target (Leah) that the hate-troll Alanzo attacks 24/7. Jeez this is the same poster who AFTER ALANZO WAS BANNED was in regular contact with him and began POSTING THE BANNED TROLL'S POSTS FOR HIM.

Posting a banned troll's comments on the same message board the troll was just banned from is not just a subtle "tell". It's a flashing neon billboard illuminated by a dozen stroboscopic klieg lights!

Nobody was supposed to notice that a banned troll was now posting thru a sock-puppet and/or spokesperson. My god, how did anyone ever figure that out? I mean, sure he SAID he was doing that, but nobody would really be dumb enough to really do that, would they? LOL

So, here comes the next round of gimmicks, but jeez---it sure looks exactly like the old gimmicks!

Same old "let's pretend we are having a robust discussion" ruse.

Same old "hey, let's argue about it!"

Same old lame trolling gimmicks. It's exciting, we're just minutes away from hearing about "cruelty" and "tribes"! LOL

Yeah, it's real hard to figure out!

:hattip:

.

.
I'm going to split the difference between you and @Karakorum

Yes, Leah has done TREMENDOUS work to expose Scientology abuse.

Yes, that part in the interview does ignore all the non-rich public who get abused and sucked dry.

Yes, Leah is not above being given opinions on how to improve her approach, and we should not shut people down for dating to voice opinions on the performance of our own Elites, who are human, not perfect, and who can occasionally benefit from being reminded of that.

All that said, my viewpoint is that Leah, judging her body of work as a whole, has done a TREMENDOUS job of exposing the abuse suffered by ALL members of Scientology.
 
FWIW I don't think either of you are lying ... I just think there has been a misunderstanding.

:)


Well that very well could be the case, but how would anyone know what the misunderstanding is when karakorum refuses to answer any simple question or clarify why he/she is posting contradictory things?

I am open to the concept of misunderstanding. But I can read English and I am able to see when the same poster says two opposite things on different days.

I did ask the poster if perhaps they have another language that is native. No response.

It is just not that difficult.

You saw me put their posts SIDE-BY-SIDE.

They each said the opposite of the other.

Anyone with a 3rd grade reading level could see that.

What am I missing? LOL
 
You have a point, but it might also depend on what times are we talking about. My impression of WUS in the 90s and 2000s was that staff was mostly poorer (or ex-middle class who went poor after the regges drained them) people, or 2nd generation kids. Leah has also experienced the 1990s and 2000s in California from this angle. It is not like me and Leah are talking about a different time or place.
This was slightly different in the SO, where there was a bunch of older members who joined in the 1970s abandonning their professions.
Also, keep in mind that Leah did not grow up wealthy. She grew up as the poor kid of a Scientology org staff member. She knows all about that.
 
,

This was my experience as well. I was on staff for close to 10 years (in a CL V org as well as two Sea Org orgs), and didn't go up the Bridge. I did my Purif and Level 0 Internship. It seemed as though it might take the full billion years to get all the way up the Bridge.
My experience was very different. I signed a 2½ year contract at London Org, and after about a year I was a class IV auditor and grade IV release. I can't remember how the hell I got to do grade V, VA and R6EW but I did and I didn't pay a penny for them. Then I had a girlfriend whose husband was very rich and apparently didn't miss the several hundred pounds she gave me to do the Clearing Course and OTI at AOUK in Edinburgh! So I got half way across the bridge for nothing. That's what I call making it go right. :D
 
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Well that very well could be the case, but how would anyone know what the misunderstanding is when karakorum refuses to answer any simple question or clarify why he/she is posting contradictory things?

I am open to the concept of misunderstanding. But I can read English and I am able to see when the same poster says two opposite things on different days.

I did ask the poster if perhaps they have another language that is native. No response.

It is just not that difficult.

You saw me put their posts SIDE-BY-SIDE.

They each said the opposite of the other.

Anyone with a 3rd grade reading level could see that.

What am I missing? LOL

I haven't been following this word for word (and won't be) but I thought K meant she was 'in contact' with Alanzo openly on the thread that was going at the time ... the thread he got banned on, then K said she would answer his questions anyway because he may still be able to read them and she answered them.

Her actual words were
Well, I know Allen is banned, but I think he might still read the forums as a guest. I asked him to provide some replies to my questions to make it a two-way comm, which he did. I thus feel it would be proper and decent to at least answer his last questions.

I still think a misunderstanding has taken place but I'm not allowed to say things like that anymore because I promised He-man I would stop it.

:)
 
I'm going to split the difference between you and @Karakorum

Yes, Leah has done TREMENDOUS work to expose Scientology abuse.

Yes, that part in the interview does ignore all the non-rich public who get abused and sucked dry.

Yes, Leah is not above being given opinions on how to improve her approach, and we should not shut people down for dating to voice opinions on the performance of our own Elites, who are human, not perfect, and who can occasionally benefit from being reminded of that.

All that said, my viewpoint is that Leah, judging her body of work as a whole, has done a TREMENDOUS job of exposing the abuse suffered by ALL members of Scientology.


Fair enough, but let me add another facet to the conversation about Leah. She is first and foremost an actress whose entire professional career is focused on performing in STORIES. Tv shows are stories. Movies are stories. Her show is Stories.

Anyone who works in any medium concerned with STORIES is intimately familiar with storytelling conventions, narrative threads, holding audience attention, creating compelling and simple narratives and keeping the narrative flow simple enough to be ENTERTAINING.

I spend a lot of years in various writing and narrative arts.

I have taught many others how to present ideas in different businesses I have owned. Some of the most brilliant people who have worked for my companies (genius designers, engineers, physicists, marketing, manufacturing, et al) I learned often had HORRIBLE story telling skills and despite their being perfectly brilliant and charming people, would LOSE THE AUDIENCE (in board rooms or other meetings/presentations) time after time.

No matter how many times I explained it to them or showed it to them in real situations, they could simply not pick up the rhythm and "dance" of how it has to work.

WHAT WAS THE #1 MISTAKE?

It was always burying the other meeting participants in an avalanche of factoids.

This may seem esoteric to people who are not familiar with the craft of storytelling but the greatest artists, entrepreneurs, politicians, educators and business visionaries all have to be masters of storytelling in order to succeed.

I have seen crushing failures when my top execs literally MURDERED a presentation/interview because they were slaves to "factoids". They could not stop shooting a firehose of facts at the assembled parties. Drowned the living shit out of them...because---well "they just needed more facts!" LOL

Here's the point. Leah is a great storyteller. First time i met her was as a really young girl, long before acting. She has a natural gift with communication, she is entirely brilliant and natural at it and always was!

She knows full well that a prime time interview has a very huge audience that crosses over many demographics. She picks her story elements carefully and delivers her message as well as anyone that is out there on social media. People absolutely LOVE her personality and her style of explaining and responding to questions. She's both charming, and hilarious.

Someone who doesn't know fuck-all about giving such major league interviews can sit back and criticize her because she was not flooding the airwaves with all those VITAL VITAL VITAL factoids. But she didn't do that because she didn't want to kill her audience. Someone who believes she terribly erred by not going into an explanation about the different between STAFF and PUBLIC is someone that has NEVER had to make presentations or use storytelling elements in their profession.

She got her message across. She doesn't need to include a firehose of facts to do it. She picks the facts and elements that make the story work and she delivers it.

I work in these industries and I train people that work for my companies to focus their stories simply enough to not kill their audience.

So, here's the test. I'd like to see any one of the harsh critics who know more than Leah how to do prime time interviews---I'd like to see them get on a live mike in front of a live camera and do it.

If anyone here has worked in TV, FILM, DOCUMENTARIES, RADIO, ADVERTISING or any similar mediums, they would know that person without those core storytelling skills would be a complete disaster trying to do what Leah does so brilliantly

I am not saying that Leah or anyone else is not subject to criticism. But to take their criticism seriously, they would have to know a tiny bit about what they are talking about.

Her show and her interviews (Larry King, Joe Rogan, Ellen, et al) have all been SMASH RATINGS hits. That was her focus and she succeeded.

If anyone thinks she missed vital factoids they are welcome to buy a set of BASICS BOOKS and mail it to Larry King. LOL
 
I haven't been following this word for word (and won't be) but I thought K meant she was 'in contact' with Alanzo openly on the thread that was going at the time ... the thread he got banned on, then K said she would answer his questions anyway because he may still be able to read them and she answered them.

Her actual words were

I still think a misunderstanding has taken place but I'm not allowed to say things like that anymore because I promised He-man I would stop it.

:)


Since Karakorum doesn't answer questions, what was the misunderstanding? I don't get it, LOL

Yes those were her words AFTER Alanxzo was banned:

Well, I know Allen is banned, but I think he might still read the forums as a guest. I asked him to provide some replies to my questions to make it a two-way comm, which he did. I thus feel it would be proper and decent to at least answer his last questions.

So what didn't i get?

The words she wrote say she "asked him to provide some replies to her questions to make it a two-way com, which he did".

So the words say she was conversing with him (writing, or other medium).

So in English that means she "was in contact" with Alanzo.

But when I wrote that after Alanzo was banned she was in contact with Alanzo and posting his responses, how am I lying?

She said it, I didn't.

I am repeating exactly what she said.

Is this like a late April Fools joke that the entire message board is playing where everyone is gaslighting me that I can't read English? LOL LOL LOL

Honestly, if you can explain it, cool. Otherwise, don't worry about it,

:)
 
Diid you get in contact with Alanzo exactly the way you posted<snip>
Of course I did.
Let me tell the whole story in as simple terms as I can:

1. Way back in the 1990s Alanzo was on Staff at Santa Monica. I am from that part of the greater LA area. I would see him and other staff members there face-to-face. This was in the early 1990s when I was not even an adult. He was a grown-ass dude. Trust me, we had no secret joint plans then, nor later.

2. In 2020 the only "communication" between me and him were the posts we both made in a public thread on this here forum. He had PM turned off so I couldn't even contact him "in secret". I think admins might confirm this. Those posts and questions are still out there in that thread. Go check it out.

3. There was no other communication between the 90s Santa Monica and 2020 on this forum. Zero, zilch, nada.

I do not know how much clearer can I make the above statements. None of what I posted contradicts other posts.

DID YOU POST THAT YOU WERE IN CONTACT WITH ALANZO AND SOLICITED AND RECEIVED MESSAGES WHICH YOU THEN POSTED ON ESMB?
I was not "in contact" with Alanzo other than the way I just described above. Everything I posted is in plain sight, you can go and check. Please link to a specific post, because I have no idea which of my 600+ posts do you mean.

You are maliciously trying to smear me with some vague accusations for which you so far have presented no evidence. I again ask you for permission to post our whole PM conversation in public. I have nothing to hide, while you are trying to put a spin on that PM that is 180 opposite to what was said.

If you were not in contact with him WHY DID YOU POST THAT?
What is: "THAT"? Please link to a specific post, because I have no idea which of my 600+ posts do you mean.

How would I be lying if I am repeating what you posted?
In this post you weren't even quoting me. You are re-inventing what I said, putting words in my mouth and are putting a malicious spin on it. You have manipulated the meaning to attack me and trying to present as if I said something opposite to what I did.

Why can't you answer such a simple question?
I just did. Repeatedly. I do not enjoy playing your sec-check game. All you are trying to do is somehow cut my posts apart and re-combine parts of different posts together to make it seem like I'm being Alanzo's sockpuppet.

If you have any evidence, just report me to the admins and they will ban me if I'm really a sockpuppet of Alanzo. But you do not have any evidence and you won't report it. You are now going for 3 posts in a row trying to smear me.
 
Since Karakorum doesn't answer questions, what was the misunderstanding? I don't get it, LOL

Yes those were her words AFTER Alanxzo was banned:

Well, I know Allen is banned, but I think he might still read the forums as a guest. I asked him to provide some replies to my questions to make it a two-way comm, which he did. I thus feel it would be proper and decent to at least answer his last questions.

So what didn't i get?

The words she wrote say she "asked him to provide some replies to her questions to make it a two-way com, which he did".

So the words say she was conversing with him (writing, or other medium).

So in English that means she "was in contact" with Alanzo.

But when I wrote that after Alanzo was banned she was in contact with Alanzo and posting his responses, how am I lying?

She said it, I didn't.

I am repeating exactly what she said.

Is this like a late April Fools joke that the entire message board is playing where everyone is gaslighting me that I can't read English? LOL LOL LOL

Honestly, if you can explain it, cool. Otherwise, don't worry about it,

:)




Jeez this is the same poster who AFTER ALANZO WAS BANNED was in regular contact with him and began POSTING THE BANNED TROLL'S POSTS FOR HIM.

Re the above post ... I don't think she was in regular contact with him at all (though if she was/is that's her prerogative) and I haven't seen her posting for Alanzo. The conversation she and Alanzo had was all on that thread.

That is what I think was misunderstood.

:)
 
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Since Karakorum doesn't answer questions, what was the misunderstanding? I don't get it, LOL

Yes those were her words AFTER Alanxzo was banned:

Well, I know Allen is banned, but I think he might still read the forums as a guest. I asked him to provide some replies to my questions to make it a two-way comm, which he did. I thus feel it would be proper and decent to at least answer his last questions.

So what didn't i get?

You are again maliciously trying to make up a story that just isn't there.

Let me expose for everyone to clearly see the manipulation you are doing by adding a very obvious clarification with links in green:

"Well, I know Allen is banned, but I think he might still read the forums as a guest. I asked him IN THIS POST HERE to provide some replies to my questions to make it a two-way comm, which he did IN THIS POST HERE. I thus feel it would be proper and decent to at least answer IN MY POST HERE his last questions."

Is this like a late April Fools joke that the entire message board is playing where everyone is gaslighting me that I can't read English? LOL LOL LOL

Honestly, if you can explain it, cool. Otherwise, don't worry about it,

I see you will try to weasel yourself out of this, but I know you are not stupid. People know you are not stupid, your posts are witty and smart. You knew perfectly well what I meant all along, but you thought you can just gaslight me and confuse everyone with accusations and innuendo. You know English darn well enough.

I can only speculate that you are doing this to derail this thread, because I dared to criticize Leah Remini and you couldn't allow that to happen. Because God forbid people talk critically of Leah.:screwy:

I cannot be 100% sure why you are doing this, but what you are doing is trying to smear me and invoke groundless suspicion among other forum members. I do not enjoy this.
 
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