Who is the legal owner of Scientology org's property, specifically Class Vs and Missions?

[LaffyHypnotizedMe]

Do the local EDs own the property (building, lot, furniture, computers, vehicles, etc) or has the legal ownership been transferred to RTC?

 

[onceuponatime]

I'm sure it isn't the local EDs, I'm also sure that on paper it isn't DM/RTC. They probably have all sorts of legal cloaking going on. But in reality it is owned by DM, like everything else in Scientology.

 

[Reyne Mayer]

Do the local EDs own the property (building, lot, furniture, computers, vehicles, etc) or has the legal ownership been transferred to RTC?

from what i've picked up though i'm not certain:

before 'ideal' orgs, the local org owned any property, at least on paper -- though i would expect RTC or whatever CofS entity would have had some backdoor route to seizing it if they wanted. St. Louis is the one example i can think of, of a still non-ideal org in the US that owns a building that may fall under old arrangements. and then of course there's Toronto with one of the most valuable properties of all.

i've seen it said that the int landlord (or some related entity) owns 'ideal' orgs.

any property a mission may own belongs to the franchisee, though back during the mission massacre RTC or whoever might have seized some properties when they took over missions (but obviously they didn't get Riverside's old YMCA building, which Bent Corydon still controls).

if anyone does know better, i'd love to hear about it.

 

[Riddick]

I'm sure it isn't the local EDs, I'm also sure that on paper it isn't DM/RTC. They probably have all sorts of legal cloaking going on. But in reality it is owned by DM, like everything else in Scientology.

It's not so much who owns it all, but DM controls it all. I don't care, but I hope to live long enough to see his downfall and I think that will only come after his death. I'm more curious how they will survive after his death,, who will take over?

I probably won't be around to hear about it.

 

[Enthetan]

before 'ideal' orgs, the local org owned any property, at least on paper -- though i would expect RTC or whatever CofS entity would have had some backdoor route to seizing it if they wanted.

I don't know, but suspect, that the property is owned by some shell corporation which rents it to the org. The reason being that Scn does not want someone to be able to win a lawsuit against an org, and then to be able to seize the building in payment.

 

[LaffyHypnotizedMe]

Wow, sounds like another Scientology hairball. So the locals spend years upgrading these old crumbling buildings with community donations but the property belongs to RTC/CoS/DM?? this is really messed up.

Do we know who originally bought the org properties? I suspect it was paid for by local donors because there is no way Hubbard and his gang of thieves pay to setup 100s of orgs around the globe.

 

[Enthetan]

Wow, sounds like another Scientology hairball. So the locals spend years upgrading these old crumbling buildings with community donations but the property belongs to RTC/CoS/DM?? this is really messed up.

Do we know who originally bought the org properties? I suspect it was paid for by local donors because there is no way Hubbard and his gang of thieves pay to setup 100s of orgs around the globe.

Do an internet search for

scientology "building investment committee"

and you will see some interesting stuff.

I remember the BIC group having an office at Flag in the 1980's, and them being tasked to acquire buildings for orgs. Where exactly the money came from, and the official ownership of the assets, is deliberately left a bit hazy.

Former AOLA Tresury Sec Cece Smith mentioned a little about it

1977: Church of Scientology Purchases Cedars of Lebanon Hosptial in Los Angeles

An article from the old Hollywood Independent Dated February 10, 1977, the story covers the purchase of the Cedars of Lebanon hospital in Los Angeles for $5,000.000. This facility became the Pac […]

scientologymoneyproject.com

“…result of a building fund drive” Interesting. To my knowledge, fundraising was not being done at the time. The ‘drive’ was the 5% building funds that came from each org. They were used like they were supposed to be. This would have been an accumulation over years by all the involved orgs so could have amounted to the 5M without a fundraising drive.


One thing I know AOLA was made to pay (.5M?) for their share of the ‘Complex’. Then of course after the Corp sort-out May 1985 (Church of Scientology of California xfered it’s assets to Church of Scientology WUS) AOLA had to pay nearly 3,000 a week for BIC (Building Investment Committee) rent. When I (as Treas Sec) queried this, I was told it was to maintain legal rudiments. My suggestion was that the 10% to management be compensated by this amount by paying that much less 10%. When I orders queried it, I was sent to sec checks. Five years later I became the FBO and when I refused to pay it again, more sec checks but this time over at the HGB.


I’m starting to understand why in 1996 when Jennie De Vocht came to AOLA she already had me on a X list and I was ousted even before she briefed the AOLA Captain on her mission. These past ‘incidents’ staff went thru can not be understood without the truth of what was going on. One understood the in-justice dissolves and it gets humorous. Like the church was really concerned about legal rudiments while it’s funneling suitcases of money to LRH. Course that may have been his royalties from AIS I suppose and until I speak to Al Koch (Treas Sec AIS and possibly Barbara Griffin Treas Sec RTC) I don’t know what the suitcases of cash represented. My suspicion is more money to management over the 10% was DMs idea. I know when I took over FBO (’90 IIRC) the Finance accounts were in the hole due to amounts being spent over and above the proper %. I added up the account holes and amounts of %s due plus the public owed (because both their credit card and the check they brought in to replace it were banked) added to over 300K. I have that list in DOS

The Church lies are different depending on what level you worked at. Perhaps 13M was a shore story and there was fundraising going on and 8M was collected over and above the price or it included renovations. At AOLA, I was told it was 2.5M for the Complex. Go figure. Warrior has more of the story I think.

Was there fundraising going on back then – ’77?

and

The History of Scientology’s Weird Vaults — The Bizarre Battlefield Earth Connection! | The Underground Bunker

tonyortega.org

THE BUNKER: So in 1982, CST is born as one of the new entities of Scientology’s byzantine corporate structure, and it has the task of digging vaults and storing not the world’s scientific knowledge, but Hubbard’s “technology” for safekeeping. It seems utterly disconnected from what Scientology had been doing for 30 years at that point.

JON: What a fantastic way to move money around, though. The Orgs all accumulate debt to those above them — so Saint Hill, for instance, has been practically bankrupt for most of its existence, because it cannot meet the charges for training its personnel. The money was moved out of the “mother church” — the Church of Scientology of California — before the Wollersheim case closed. The properties are owned by the Building Investment Committee — after CST the only corporation to be substantially in credit (and they’ve made some very bad investments, over the years). But a project with many sub-contractors would be ideal, if you wanted to move cash around. Amazing how expensive titanium boxes for storing steel etchings can be. Of course, the gold will have peeled off the laser discs long before the promised “forever,” and the first project was undertaken before DVD technology (whoops).

 

[LaffyHypnotizedMe]

Do an internet search for

scientology "building investment committee"

and you will see some interesting stuff.

I remember the BIC group having an office at Flag in the 1980's, and them being tasked to acquire buildings for orgs. Where exactly the money came from, and the official ownership of the assets, is deliberately left a bit hazy.

Former AOLA Tresury Sec Cece Smith mentioned a little about it

1977: Church of Scientology Purchases Cedars of Lebanon Hosptial in Los Angeles

An article from the old Hollywood Independent Dated February 10, 1977, the story covers the purchase of the Cedars of Lebanon hospital in Los Angeles for $5,000.000. This facility became the Pac […]

scientologymoneyproject.com

and

The History of Scientology’s Weird Vaults — The Bizarre Battlefield Earth Connection! | The Underground Bunker

tonyortega.org

I knew about Cedar hospital history a little, simply because I did some of my EPF there in 1985. I suspected the ownership of building may not belong to the locals. The reason for my inquiry was if a couple of Class Vs decide to give DM the finger and join the Freezone/Indies what asset do they have to start with. My closest org in Atlanta is a dead zone, no cars or people going in or out. They might as well shut it down.

 

[Enthetan]

The reason for my inquiry was if a couple of Class Vs decide to give DM the finger and join the Freezone/Indies what asset do they have to start with.

I think most field auditors operate out of their homes, and it would be a logical starting point for an Indie.

 

[Isaac]

The church of Scientology owns everything
The members paid for everything
David Miscavige controls everything

 

[Reyne Mayer]

I don't know, but suspect, that the property is owned by some shell corporation which rents it to the org. The reason being that Scn does not want someone to be able to win a lawsuit against an org, and then to be able to seize the building in payment.

that's just the scenario that leads me to suspect that they at least had some backdoor way to take control of local org property even before going 'ideal', they would never want an org to go squirrel and stay in the building. i wouldn't be surprised if they even worked in a way of being sure they could take over the lease on a property that wasn't owned, just to be sure there was no way an org could even operate out of the same premises.

it rings a bell that one of the claimed justifications for making missions reorganize in the early '80s, was to firewall legal liability. i'm not sure what they did about the orgs, though.

I think most field auditors operate out of their homes, and it would be a logical starting point for an Indie.

what i've noticed is that a lot of the missions operate out of offices that the franchisee uses for their primary business, if they're not just based out of homes the same as a field practice. i've read that at one point field auditors were being forced to buy mission packages, and from what i've seen a couple of the missions that do still have some space of their own only make sense if the mission holder is making money off of auditing a base of clients and FSMing, to pay the rent.

West Valley for example operates out of one (left) end of a building -- with its own street number to hide the connection, which i've run across so frequently it must be a trick out of the SMI playbook -- the rest of which is used by the mission holder for a printing business:

 

[Zertel]

In the 1970s they purchased a rundown hotel that was called the Manor Hotel in LA and turned it into the Celebrity Center. I rented a room there for a few months while it was undergoing renovations and the rent was cheap. The furniture in the rooms was old and rickety and the wallpaper was falling off in a lot of areas but nobody cared because we were "on purpose". The fact that scn was able to buy a hotel gave me the impression that scn was actually flourishing. Ideal Orgs are the new thing.

 

[Enthetan]

In the 1970s they purchased a rundown hotel that was called the Manor Hotel in LA and turned it into the Celebrity Center. I rented a room there for a few months while it was undergoing renovations and the rent was cheap. The furniture in the rooms was old and rickety and the wallpaper was falling off in a lot of areas but nobody cared because we were "on purpose". The fact that scn was able to buy a hotel gave me the impression that scn was actually flourishing. Ideal Orgs are the new thing.

I stayed there once in the early 80's as a public. I noticed my room was roach infested. I got out and went to a regular motel.

 

[Bill]

I stayed there once in the early 80's as a public. I noticed my room was roach infested. I got out and went to a regular motel.

I stayed (for one night) at the Fort Harrison... What a dump!

 

[TheSneakster]

OK, I believe I have a partial answer to the OP: Social Betterment Properties, Inc. owns several properties related to ABLE, Narconon, CCHR and Do please note that this corporation is not CST, RTC, or CSI. More digging is required. I'm working on it.

 

[Riddick]

I don't know, but suspect, that the property is owned by some shell corporation which rents it to the org. The reason being that Scn does not want someone to be able to win a lawsuit against an org, and then to be able to seize the building in payment.

It's all owned by Scientology, I think the Land Lord org or whatever they called it. It's still under the umbrella of "scientology" which DM and his lawyers control.

All those people that donated 100's, thousands, millions, or any amount of money have been duped by the rhetoric of building a new civilization of having clean or nice looking quarters to impress and show that scientology is successful.

Anybody that donated is well, a sucker. Just like anybody that thought one could go clear and then OT, which I was one who fell for the rhetoric of it all.

 

[LaffyHypnotizedMe]

We currently reside in beautiful Augusta GA, so I have a special interest in ATL ideal org. When I did a quick search as Enthetan suggested I found a very interesting court document:

Church of Scientology of Ga., Inc. v. City of Sandy Springs, Ga., 843 F. Supp. 2d 1328 | Casetext Search + Citator

Read Church of Scientology of Ga., Inc. v. City of Sandy Springs, Ga., 843 F. Supp. 2d 1328, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database

casetext.com

Scientology went thru a long battle with Sandy Spring because city wouldn't let them expand the building from 32,000 to 40,000. These ass clowns really expected huge expansion just because they put a pretty face on an old con!! Now, it's worse than ever in Atlanta's Ideal Morgue.

 

[LaffyHypnotizedMe]

OK, I believe I have a partial answer to the OP: Social Betterment Properties, Inc. owns several properties related to ABLE, Narconon, CCHR and Do please note that this corporation is not CST, RTC, or CSI. More digging is required. I'm working on it.

Miscavige and his slimy lawyers have been busy. The new corporation that manages properties is: Building Investment Committee (BIC).

 

[TheSneakster]

Miscavige and his slimy lawyers have been busy. The new corporation that manages properties is: Building Investment Committee (BIC).

No such corporation. Also, "manages" is not the answer to the question. It's "owns".

 

[Reyne Mayer]

OK, I believe I have a partial answer to the OP: Social Betterment Properties, Inc. owns several properties related to ABLE, Narconon, CCHR and Do please note that this corporation is not CST, RTC, or CSI. More digging is required. I'm working on it.

i think there are different entities that own the 'ideal' local orgs, the upper level orgs, properties related to those social betterment front groups, etc. and the question then is which of the major corporations those entities fall under....