What To Show Someone That Is Thinking About Doing Services

I am going to go a bit further, and say this, to you my old friend, on this message board. You may never read this, maybe you will. Maybe your kids will. But if this goes badly for me, I will post your names, and my name here in this forum. This will be the written history of it.

There are good things that have come from your experience. No one will say that you haven't gotten something out of it. That is real to you, no one argues this. There is more to the story. You know this is true. Just ask yourself the question "where is everybody?" You say that is the way it is with all new religions. That all new religions are attacked. That might hold some truth, possibly, for some religions. What if a brilliant person thought up this as a ruse? A clever combining of truth, to something not deserving of such effective cloaking or coloration.

So as a result of speaking with me, and hearing me out, you have decided to apply ethics and write me up. Your action will cause trouble for two people in the short term. I will survive and "make it go right" in my life. But you. You are not able to know what you don't know, and to not be able to apply your inherent rationality, because of the effect on you that your decisions are having.

For you and your better half, I feel bad, because again, there is something that you don't know, and don't want to know. For you two, I do feel badly.

But there is the matter of your children. You, and you alone, well, both of you, are responsible for the safety of your children. I am sure that you have had sleepless nights, as every parent has. I bet you have had to make important medical decisions as well. You probably had to study things in regards to medical issues. You probably had to go on the internet and look things up. You did that, freely. That is your job, to ensure they are safe. You influence their safety, even past the age where they go on their own, by telling them what is right and wrong in the world, what is safe and what isn't. You influence their lives. You are probably the greatest influence in their lives. You are so sure that what you believe about what you are getting them involved in, you are not willing to look.

You know that it is just a bunch of disgruntled people on the internet, that write bad things about everything that they possibly can. You know that to be true, right? Without even knowing if that is true, that is what you know to be true. What if you are wrong? What if that is not the case. It actually isn't, but you wouldn't know.

In spite of all this, I do not want to see you live this life in a lie. I especially don't wish that of your kids. I thought and still do think that. It is worth it to me to go on record with you on this. Whether or not it has the effect that I desired, I tried. I could have gone at it anonymously, but I trusted your judgement.

I think I will have more to say, but that is it for now.
 
A sleepless night says otherwise. I did come up with some ideas, and I am resolved more than ever to fight the beast in any way that is within the law. As far as my friend, to quote the old movie "Oh no, it wasn't the airplanes. It was confirmation bias killed the beast."
 
Dotey OT said:
As a follow up to the start of this thread, the guy that I was trying to "enlighten" (Kind of brings a new meaning to that old turd of a word) about what scamatology really is, will never be a scamatologist! He has seen the drama, in spite of the contrarily beautiful facade. That is a win!!

However, I just started a cycle that will help four people that are in get out, or it will fully open me to being found out and losing UTR status, GULP!!! This is worth it guys. Wish me luck!! I think, ugh...

Oh, I think I can safely say it's a couple with two kids that have S.O. firmly tattooed on their foreheads.

It's worth it, right? Ugh.

Edit: I had to edit the first paragraph. That guy has seen the light, and the original paragraph did not spell it out clearly.
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My earlier post was kind of screwy. The guy that I talked to about the choich believes me, and will not go in. He has seen enough.
 
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Zertel said:
I just now read over this thread. Wow. In the 1970s scn was presented as Western science applied to Eastern philosophy and religion and I guess it's still presented that way. In the beginning most people have "wins and cognitions" and it's sometimes referred to as "How to slow boil a frog".
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LOL, an apt analogy! I think that one is destined for the "TOP SUPER-STUPID MOMENTS IN SCIENTOLOGY" thread!

So many cognitions! So much science! There must be so much technology behind all those wins!

I just realized why the e-meter is so vital to Scientologists attaining Ideal Freedom and Ideal Happiness. For example, one can scientifically confirm that the being is blowing charge by the needle reaction known as LFBD. Long Frog Boil Down.

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From @Oat Tea Ate :

"As far as anything you achieve in Scientology, it is all based on belief.
Whatever the mind can believe, the person can achieve.

You have to invest yourself heavily into believing. Scientology has done that for you. Charge a lot of money out the reach of most people, make people jump through hoops, give them big wild tales like Xenu and whalla - you will believe anything.
It is also hypnosis and implanted suggestions that bury in the subconscious mind.

A lot of factors go into mind control. "

Reflecting on the conversation that I had with my friend. It was sort of like having a discussion by looking at the mirror, it's how I was over ten years ago. It is actually very spooky. The upside is that you can recover, as we know. I wonder what remnants of that foolishness still are still embedded in my skull?

At any rate, I haven't heard back yet, he said that we would talk again.
 
We talked. He has chosen his friendship to me to keep talking. I will write up the particulars. In the meanwhile, we have a bonfire going!!! Perfect day here to finally do the burn pile!!
 
We have an agreement, in that I do not reveal any OT data to him. He is ruminating on several things that I disclosed to him. It is very interesting, to say the least.
 
Ok, to anyone reading, @Karen#1 @Oat Tea Ate and anyone that has worked with getting people out, and willing to participate, here is a question:

If you had the opportunity to give ten datums to a current scamatologist, who promised they would listen, BUT NOT OT DATA, what would you select? You are getting a little bit of curious attention from a dedicated scamatologist, that has a level of rationality that you may have had when you were in BEFORE you really questioned. In other words, what would be a head turner, but not a stomache turner?? It could be a picture, anything. That is a good idea, what image could evoke some thought?

I will give you an example. I was first on Facebook back in 2007 or so. I was friending all my scamatologist friends. I thought it was cool. I accepted something from a group called "I bet we can find 10,000 scientologists on Facebook." I had stupidly accepted whatever was sent, and it turned out to be some guy that said "The clear cognition is 'Hey, I was mocking up my own bank' or such thing. I was turned off. I left Facebook. I did!! But had that been some other tidbit, I may have looked. Like the photoshopped boat pic of Sara Northrup.
 
Dotey OT said:
If you had the opportunity to give ten datums to a current scamatologist, who promised they would listen, BUT NOT OT DATA, what would you select?
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I saw a video of Tommy Davis publicly saying disconnection doesn't exist. Any Scientologist knows that's a lie: disconnection definitely does exist. You don't need to be staff or have special clearance to know about it. Everyone knows about disconnection.

Seeing Tommy Davis tell such an obvious lie made me wonder: "If they're willing to lie about this, then what else are they lying about?" And that's when I began to look.
 
Dotey OT said:
Ok, to anyone reading, @Karen#1 @Oat Tea Ate and anyone that has worked with getting people out, and willing to participate, here is a question:

If you had the opportunity to give ten datums to a current scamatologist, who promised they would listen, BUT NOT OT DATA, what would you select? You are getting a little bit of curious attention from a dedicated scamatologist, that has a level of rationality that you may have had when you were in BEFORE you really questioned. In other words, what would be a head turner, but not a stomache turner?? It could be a picture, anything. That is a good idea, what image could evoke some thought?

I will give you an example. I was first on Facebook back in 2007 or so. I was friending all my scamatologist friends. I thought it was cool. I accepted something from a group called "I bet we can find 10,000 scientologists on Facebook." I had stupidly accepted whatever was sent, and it turned out to be some guy that said "The clear cognition is 'Hey, I was mocking up my own bank' or such thing. I was turned off. I left Facebook. I did!! But had that been some other tidbit, I may have looked. Like the photoshopped boat pic of Sara Northrup.
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On YouTube there's a video of Ron being interviewed, and the subject of Sarah Northrop, his second wife, comes up. Ron says "I never had a second wife".

Which wife number was Mary Sue?
 
UTR said:
I saw a video of Tommy Davis publicly saying disconnection doesn't exist. Any Scientologist knows that's a lie: disconnection definitely does exist. You don't need to be staff or have special clearance to know about it. Everyone knows about disconnection.

Seeing Tommy Davis tell such an obvious lie made me wonder: "If they're willing to lie about this, then what else are they lying about?" And that's when I began to look.
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I saw that one. That is a good one, obviously, look where it got you?
 
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Dotey OT said:
Ok, to anyone reading, @Karen#1 @Oat Tea Ate and anyone that has worked with getting people out, and willing to participate, here is a question:

If you had the opportunity to give ten datums to a current scamatologist, who promised they would listen, BUT NOT OT DATA, what would you select? You are getting a little bit of curious attention from a dedicated scamatologist, that has a level of rationality that you may have had when you were in BEFORE you really questioned. In other words, what would be a head turner, but not a stomache turner?? It could be a picture, anything. That is a good idea, what image could evoke some thought?

I will give you an example. I was first on Facebook back in 2007 or so. I was friending all my scamatologist friends. I thought it was cool. I accepted something from a group called "I bet we can find 10,000 scientologists on Facebook." I had stupidly accepted whatever was sent, and it turned out to be some guy that said "The clear cognition is 'Hey, I was mocking up my own bank' or such thing. I was turned off. I left Facebook. I did!! But had that been some other tidbit, I may have looked. Like the photoshopped boat pic of Sara Northrup.
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10 datums / questions I would use to help a Scamatologist get out of the delusion

1. What exactly is a Scientology Clear? (Let him/her answer in writing)
2. Can you name 1 Clear that has the abilities he/ she listed?
3. Ask them what LRH says about Symbols or where are symbols on the Tone Scale? (L Ron Hubbard says Symbols are LOW TONED )
Then ask them to please draw on a piece of paper the Scientology Cross. Give them 10 seconds.
(Every Scientologist I have done this with does not know how to draw it - they don't recall it. (The tactic Hubbard uses is implanted suggestions. He tells people that symbols are low toned so Scientologists do not notice that he uses tons of symbols because they communicate the hypnotic suggestion he uses in his tech.
Ask them to research the Rosy Cross and write up their wins. Just kidding about the writing up of the wins but this procedure helped me get someone out.
4. Tell them to research Jack Parsons and his relationship to L Ron Hubbard. Seems like a safe thing to do. That got someone out - the fact Scientology lied about that part of LRH's life.
5. Tell them to research on their own LRH's actual military records. They are available by doing a bit of research.
6. Ask them to research Ron DeWolf and Jamie DeWolf. Have them watch Jamie DeWolf on YOUTUBE:
7. Ask them to research Paultette Cooper?
8. Tell them to watch Jason Beghe's videos on line and what happened to him in Scientology. Famous Actor. He got a friend of mine out.
9. Ask them what powers does an OT have? Ask them to name 1 person with those powers.
10. Who is Sara Northrup and how is she related to L Ron Hubbard?

A successful action is to get them, when they are in doubt - which is most of the time - to do their OWN research and ask them what they think about it.
 
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This is great.

Here is another thing we thought of: Can someone point me out to a picture that contains a bunch of int level exec's, or management people, in a group photo, where there are a good number of people out for good or missing? What is the best photo for that?
 
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Not every factoid is going to work on every person. Learning about LRH's real history didn't do anything for me. A true believer Scientologist might just say, "That shows that Ron was just a man like any other, but he was at cause enough to rise above the bank."

I remember having a great "explanation" for any "outpoint" I came across. But everyone has something (or a bunch of things) that nags them in the back of their mind which they never speak about. They might think they're the only one who notices that the emperor has no clothes. It can be a big deal to find out that other people also see the same things they do.

My advice is to find out what the person thinks is wrong, or what they are upset about within the organization. That gives you an idea of what's important to them. And then you can go from there and start giving them some personalized guidance.
 
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