The war between ex Scientologists and critics - is OSA involved?
- Thread starter Veda
- Start date
KKS
“Knowing yourself is the beginning of all wisdom.”
I have seen Marty Rathbun use the term flying monkees on his blog regarding DM's helpers and I think Mike Rinder uses the term alsoo. And Amy Scobee has used the term regarding DM's helpers. Maybe it is a popular term in LA Hollywood regarding tinseltown is located there.
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TheSneakster
Well-known member
Veda
Well-known member
Flying monkeys has been presented as a term used by psychologists, but it's not included in the voluminous American Psychological Association dictionary of 2015. However, Narcissistic Personality Disorder is there, and is a serious mental disorder, similar to being a sociopath.
As an aside, how many of the great inventors and explorers would have been classified as narcissists? or would they have made it that far, having possibly already been classified as hyper active, or having Attention Deficit Disorder, for not sitting still and doing their assignments in grade school? It's chilling to ponder that school teachers, who are pushing the Oppressor/Oppressed idea as the lens through which to see and interpret reality, might also tell ambitious, strong willed, little boys that they're "narcissists." End of digression.
Anyway, the narcissist is the villain according to the narrative in this video.
The flying monkeys are his "minions," his "brainwashed acolytes."
This attack is reminiscent of the "perimeter defense" tactic first used, at the dawn of the popular internet, during the 1990s. A person presents himself as a critic of Scientology but specializes in attacking other critics of Scientology. The person doesn't attack, or badly regard, all critics - which is what one would expect from a Scientologist - but only certain specific critics, sometimes just one, while seeking to form friendships and alliances with other critics of Scientology.
This can be confusing to an ex Scientologist or a Scientology watcher as Hubbard instructed that all critics had something horribly wrong with them.
From the 1955 Manual on Dissemination of Material:
"Another frame of mind we would like to see the public have and register is that people attacking Scientologists have something wrong with them..."
Of course, since we are not angels in heaven, and are only humans on Earth, everyone has "something wrong..." Almost anyone could be subjected to the same "dead agenting" (nullifying) tactics. "Show me the man and I'll find you the crime," or some bad behavior, or at least behavior or speech that could be spotlighted in a way that appear bad, very bad.
That said, I haven't followed this drama until recently, and, even then, not much.
But the tactics used are familiar.
As an aside, how many of the great inventors and explorers would have been classified as narcissists? or would they have made it that far, having possibly already been classified as hyper active, or having Attention Deficit Disorder, for not sitting still and doing their assignments in grade school? It's chilling to ponder that school teachers, who are pushing the Oppressor/Oppressed idea as the lens through which to see and interpret reality, might also tell ambitious, strong willed, little boys that they're "narcissists." End of digression.
Anyway, the narcissist is the villain according to the narrative in this video.
The flying monkeys are his "minions," his "brainwashed acolytes."
This attack is reminiscent of the "perimeter defense" tactic first used, at the dawn of the popular internet, during the 1990s. A person presents himself as a critic of Scientology but specializes in attacking other critics of Scientology. The person doesn't attack, or badly regard, all critics - which is what one would expect from a Scientologist - but only certain specific critics, sometimes just one, while seeking to form friendships and alliances with other critics of Scientology.
This can be confusing to an ex Scientologist or a Scientology watcher as Hubbard instructed that all critics had something horribly wrong with them.
From the 1955 Manual on Dissemination of Material:
"Another frame of mind we would like to see the public have and register is that people attacking Scientologists have something wrong with them..."
Of course, since we are not angels in heaven, and are only humans on Earth, everyone has "something wrong..." Almost anyone could be subjected to the same "dead agenting" (nullifying) tactics. "Show me the man and I'll find you the crime," or some bad behavior, or at least behavior or speech that could be spotlighted in a way that appear bad, very bad.
That said, I haven't followed this drama until recently, and, even then, not much.
But the tactics used are familiar.
Veda
Well-known member
What was wrong with "stooges"?
Stooges?
This has never happened before. People protesting Scientology are being labeled Flying Monkeys and, now, labelled stooges, by other critics of Scientology.
KKS
“Knowing yourself is the beginning of all wisdom.”
I M Dex
Well-known member
That's more or less how I see anyone blindly, unquestioningly and consistently following and defending anyone's banner, to the point of knee-jerk malice toward anyone questioning anything about their icon. As happens every 2 seconds with politics and religion.
KKS
“Knowing yourself is the beginning of all wisdom.”
I do not mind defending A aron, I can not see that he has done anything wrong. I am not religious.
Veda
Well-known member
A major schism with those who protest, educate, and assist, and provide a little push back for Scientology, seems ridiculously stupid.
Reyne Mayer
Pansexual Revolutionary
it also ultimately serves the cult's interests, and so it seems to me it ought to be avoided for that reason alone....
HelluvaHoax!
Well-known member
.
.
Perfectly correct, if the primary goal is to stop cult fraud, stalking, human rights abuses & fair game terrorism.
However, when shallow vainglorious egotism, status or wealth (i.e. "clicks") is the primary goal, then money and/or the size of one's bowling trophy wins the day.
Let's take a practical example to illustrate. During World War II, the Nazi cult had the means, motivation and strategic advantages to conquer the Western world, Africa, the Middle East and beyond. And they came perilously close to doing so. Enter the three great Allied powers, USA, Great Britain and Russia.
There was intense turmoil, disagreement and grave mistrust with the Soviets and Stalin. Many politicians and military leaders did not even want to join forces with Russia, their bitter enemy.
However, the Allied forces pushed aside contempt, fear and hatred of fanatical Communism--for the greater good. One must understand that this was done even though many in power believed that if the Allies won the war that all the standing armies and military branches should then be turned against Russia and to devastatingly defeat them before they had a chance to regroup and rebuild their industries, economy and military power.
And make no mistake, Russia was severely compromised at the end of World War II because the Soviet Union death total was 24,000,000! By sending & sacrificing mind-numbing waves of humans against the Germans, the Third Reich's resources, manpower and military advantages were essentially weakened to near-destruction. By comparison, the USA lost 450,700 and Great Britain lost 418,500; and Germany lost 5,300,000 by having to confront and battle their Eastern front vs. Russia.
The conclusion is terrifying clear. Strategic Alliances win wars--and without them one will lose and become slaves to tyrants and/or dead.
"Uneasy Alliances" and "Contentious Collaborations" are vital concepts in war strategy, without which all is lost.
Now there is another war against another cult (Scientology) who likewise intends to conquer and subjugate the world. The petty internecine conflicts that are beginning to catch fire in the anti-Scientology world are fueled by the most amateurish mistakes imaginable. Only the naive, the uneducated or the foolish would obliviously participate in, promote or lend credence to such self-destructive vanities.
.
.
Perfectly correct, if the primary goal is to stop cult fraud, stalking, human rights abuses & fair game terrorism.
However, when shallow vainglorious egotism, status or wealth (i.e. "clicks") is the primary goal, then money and/or the size of one's bowling trophy wins the day.
Let's take a practical example to illustrate. During World War II, the Nazi cult had the means, motivation and strategic advantages to conquer the Western world, Africa, the Middle East and beyond. And they came perilously close to doing so. Enter the three great Allied powers, USA, Great Britain and Russia.
However, the Allied forces pushed aside contempt, fear and hatred of fanatical Communism--for the greater good. One must understand that this was done even though many in power believed that if the Allies won the war that all the standing armies and military branches should then be turned against Russia and to devastatingly defeat them before they had a chance to regroup and rebuild their industries, economy and military power.
And make no mistake, Russia was severely compromised at the end of World War II because the Soviet Union death total was 24,000,000! By sending & sacrificing mind-numbing waves of humans against the Germans, the Third Reich's resources, manpower and military advantages were essentially weakened to near-destruction. By comparison, the USA lost 450,700 and Great Britain lost 418,500; and Germany lost 5,300,000 by having to confront and battle their Eastern front vs. Russia.
The conclusion is terrifying clear. Strategic Alliances win wars--and without them one will lose and become slaves to tyrants and/or dead.
"Uneasy Alliances" and "Contentious Collaborations" are vital concepts in war strategy, without which all is lost.
Now there is another war against another cult (Scientology) who likewise intends to conquer and subjugate the world. The petty internecine conflicts that are beginning to catch fire in the anti-Scientology world are fueled by the most amateurish mistakes imaginable. Only the naive, the uneducated or the foolish would obliviously participate in, promote or lend credence to such self-destructive vanities.
.
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KKS
“Knowing yourself is the beginning of all wisdom.”
Henry Ford and Walt Disney come to mind. Oh and LRH of course.
.
.
Perfectly correct, if the primary goal is to stop cult fraud, stalking, human rights abuses & fair game terrorism.
However, when shallow vainglorious egotism, status or wealth (i.e. "clicks") is the primary goal, then money and/or the size of one's bowling trophy wins the day.
Let's take a practical example to illustrate. During World War II, the Nazi cult had the means, motivation and strategic advantages to conquer the Western world, Africa, the Middle East and beyond. And they came perilously close to doing so. Enter the three great Allied powers, USA, Great Britain and Russia.
There was intense turmoil, disagreement and grave mistrust with the Soviets and Stalin. Many politicians and military leaders did not even want to join forces with Russia, their bitter enemy.
However, the Allied forces pushed aside contempt, fear and hatred of fanatical Communism--for the greater good. One must understand that this was done even though many in power believed that if the Allies won the war that all the standing armies and military branches should then be turned against Russia and to devastatingly defeat them before they had a chance to regroup and rebuild their industries, economy and military power.
And make no mistake, Russia was severely compromised at the end of World War II because the Soviet Union death total was 24,000,000! By sending & sacrificing mind-numbing waves of humans against the Germans, the Third Reich's resources, manpower and military advantages were essentially weakened to near-destruction. By comparison, the USA lost 450,700 and Great Britain lost 418,500; and Germany lost 5,300,000 by having to confront and battle their Eastern front vs. Russia.
The conclusion is terrifying clear. Strategic Alliances win wars--and without them one will lose and become slaves to tyrants and/or dead.
"Uneasy Alliances" and "Contentious Collaborations" are vital concepts in war strategy, without which all is lost.
Now there is another war against another cult (Scientology) who likewise intends to conquer and subjugate the world. The petty internecine conflicts that are beginning to catch fire in the anti-Scientology world are fueled by most amateurish mistakes imaginable. Only the naive, the uneducated or the foolish would obliviously participate in, promote or lend credence to such self-destructive vanities.
..
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Pooks
Active member
Hi Veda,
I honestly don't think OSA is actively involved in this dispute. I'm sure they have a few people planted in the critic/ex community but with all these protesters videoing hours and hours of their lives, and others openly commenting on their behavior, it's fairly transparent what's going on.
The best thing for OSA to do at this point is nothing.
The younger exes and never-ins seem to have no problem calling out bad behavior. It's not like it used to be where many would cover up or make excuses or blame OSA for bad behavior by Scn exes and critics.
The flying monkeys expression was used quite frequently by exes over on the old OCMB. I specifically remember 2007 was when it was very popular.
This is an interesting change in the Scn critic community. I too find it entertaining. I love that our community is policing itself against predators and grifters.
In the meantime, exes and critics whose goal is to destroy the cult and help people leaving will continue their work while this newer group will brag about how great they are and how everyone else sucks.
Yours in suppression,
Patty
I honestly don't think OSA is actively involved in this dispute. I'm sure they have a few people planted in the critic/ex community but with all these protesters videoing hours and hours of their lives, and others openly commenting on their behavior, it's fairly transparent what's going on.
The best thing for OSA to do at this point is nothing.
The younger exes and never-ins seem to have no problem calling out bad behavior. It's not like it used to be where many would cover up or make excuses or blame OSA for bad behavior by Scn exes and critics.
The flying monkeys expression was used quite frequently by exes over on the old OCMB. I specifically remember 2007 was when it was very popular.
This is an interesting change in the Scn critic community. I too find it entertaining. I love that our community is policing itself against predators and grifters.
In the meantime, exes and critics whose goal is to destroy the cult and help people leaving will continue their work while this newer group will brag about how great they are and how everyone else sucks.
Yours in suppression,
Patty
HelluvaHoax!
Well-known member
.
LOL!
I feel that the 'new protesters on the block' just need a pat on the back or perhaps a bowling trophy acknowledgment or whatever. Or maybe someone needs to call a "THAT'S IT!!!" where everyone musters around them and they are handed a jumbo completion certificate while being applauded and cheered for their awesomeness of having invented the concept of protesting! LOL
Perhaps they need their own celebratory musical anthem to feel fully appreciated. Everybody! Sing along!
When the truth is found to be lies
And all the joy within you dies
Don't you want somebody to protest?
Don't you need somebody to protest?
Wouldn't you love somebody to protest?
You better find somebody to protest.
When the garden flowers
Baby, are dead, yes and
Your mind, your mind is so full of red
Don't you want somebody to trash?
Don't you need somebody to trash?
Wouldn't you love somebody to trash?
You better find somebody to trash.
Your YT site, I say your YT site may look like his
Yeah, but in your head, baby
I'm afraid you don't know what the algorithm is
Don't you want somebody else's subscribers?
Don't you need somebody else's subscribers?
Wouldn't you love somebody else's subscribers?
You better find somebody to subscribe!
...
LOL!
I feel that the 'new protesters on the block' just need a pat on the back or perhaps a bowling trophy acknowledgment or whatever. Or maybe someone needs to call a "THAT'S IT!!!" where everyone musters around them and they are handed a jumbo completion certificate while being applauded and cheered for their awesomeness of having invented the concept of protesting! LOL
Perhaps they need their own celebratory musical anthem to feel fully appreciated. Everybody! Sing along!
When the truth is found to be lies
And all the joy within you dies
Don't you want somebody to protest?
Don't you need somebody to protest?
Wouldn't you love somebody to protest?
You better find somebody to protest.
When the garden flowers
Baby, are dead, yes and
Your mind, your mind is so full of red
Don't you want somebody to trash?
Don't you need somebody to trash?
Wouldn't you love somebody to trash?
You better find somebody to trash.
Your YT site, I say your YT site may look like his
Yeah, but in your head, baby
I'm afraid you don't know what the algorithm is
Don't you want somebody else's subscribers?
Don't you need somebody else's subscribers?
Wouldn't you love somebody else's subscribers?
You better find somebody to subscribe!
...
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HelluvaHoax!
Well-known member
..
LONG AFTER YOU WRITE A KR ON ME FOR DERAILING THIS THREAD
YOU'LL EVENTUALLY THANK ME FOR THIS WHOLETRACK RESEARCH
1967
The hardcore hippie counter-culture rock bank
Jefferson Airplane makes an appearance on the
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The tv show's production crew was probably only 22 years removed
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they're hard-working family guys making mortgage payments
and raising 3 kids. And here comes a wild-ass, long-haired
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to "try to make it look psychedelic"---but they never
even heard that word before. As the seconds tic down
and the show starts someone quickly tries to explain
it to them. "Just make it look all kind of like hippie
weird kooky-crazy or some junk". Cue band! Cameras
rolling! So for the first minute they just film it normally,
but then the cameraman sees the show's director madly
signaling him to go psychedelic. He still doesn't know
what it means, so at 1:05 the camera guy does this...
FIRST ACID ROCK PSYCHEDELIC SPECIAL
EFFECT IN THE HISTORY OF TELEVISION! LOL
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...
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