The Valerie Haney Court ruling on Arbitration
- Thread starter Karen#1
- Start date
ILove2Lurk
. . Lisbeth Salander . . Back in Sweden
Pretty shocking. I'm speechless. 
Didn't see that coming.
The only advice I ever gave anyone over the years who was leaving for good
is to 100% move on and never, never, never have or permit any future
contact with the COS or anyone still involved in it. There is no win to be
had and only risks and/or costs to you. You just have to move on and start
your life all over again.
Probably best to maintain 100% anonymity and security online. That's how
I've been playing it and it's worked out OK.
A couple years ago, someone I know asked me about their attempts to
get a refund back for their $50-60,000 of unused advance payments at
an LA area org. I advised to write one legal letter and see if the money is
forthcoming pretty quickly. If not, just forget it and walk away. Was that
amount of money worth the COS possibly stealing another decade or two
of your life if you get in a long and protracted legal mud fight? Which would
be very likely.
Your later years and happiness are way too precious. After you waste a decade
or two in the COS, why waste a decade -- or two -- more trying to extract some
justice, fairness and money? You just have to move on.
Now that said, many have chose to stand and fight and have. And I commend
them. Perhaps they're smarter, stronger, and better people than me. I don't
know.
Today's ruling on the heels of Headley and Garcia is a very, very bad sign of
things to come anywhere near the justice system for people thinking they
might find some small amount of recompense.
Today in the US, even a President would have a hard time finding fairness
and justice and a clear and unwavering rule of law. Plan your life accordingly,
I say.
YMMV, of course.
I'm terribly sad for Valerie Haney today.
Didn't see that coming.
The only advice I ever gave anyone over the years who was leaving for good
is to 100% move on and never, never, never have or permit any future
contact with the COS or anyone still involved in it. There is no win to be
had and only risks and/or costs to you. You just have to move on and start
your life all over again.
Probably best to maintain 100% anonymity and security online. That's how
I've been playing it and it's worked out OK.
A couple years ago, someone I know asked me about their attempts to
get a refund back for their $50-60,000 of unused advance payments at
an LA area org. I advised to write one legal letter and see if the money is
forthcoming pretty quickly. If not, just forget it and walk away. Was that
amount of money worth the COS possibly stealing another decade or two
of your life if you get in a long and protracted legal mud fight? Which would
be very likely.
Your later years and happiness are way too precious. After you waste a decade
or two in the COS, why waste a decade -- or two -- more trying to extract some
justice, fairness and money? You just have to move on.
Now that said, many have chose to stand and fight and have. And I commend
them. Perhaps they're smarter, stronger, and better people than me. I don't
know.
Today's ruling on the heels of Headley and Garcia is a very, very bad sign of
things to come anywhere near the justice system for people thinking they
might find some small amount of recompense.
Today in the US, even a President would have a hard time finding fairness
and justice and a clear and unwavering rule of law. Plan your life accordingly,
I say.
YMMV, of course.
I'm terribly sad for Valerie Haney today.
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Karen#1
Well-known member
I think that might be the correct advice for some.
It would not necessarily be correct for those who have different goals and aspirations.
I am sure you are familiar with this quote:
The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing
ILove2Lurk
. . Lisbeth Salander . . Back in Sweden
Update from Mike Rinder's blog:
When I spoke to Valerie, she put it perfectly: “A judge asking me to engage
in a religious arbitration with a religion I escaped from and am no longer part
of is a far cry from anything I had expected from a rational court. I’m not going
away. I am not going to be shut down or shut up. The battle has just begun. All
this does it harden my resolve to bring an end to the abuses.”
Karen#1
Well-known member
Mike Rinder's blog gives a wider and more comprehensive view to the ruling today
www.mikerindersblog.org
Concerning Scientology “Religious Arbitration”
www.mikerindersblog.org
cleared cannibal
Well-known member
lotus
🇨🇦 Dough Ford to Trump "kiss my ass looser" 👏
Whatever happens in USA has nothing similar in comparaison with a former DM inner circle Scientologist, considered as a degraded being SP, who is to be thrown again, by the court, under the abusives policies of a pseudo religion that is in fact a mafia intending to muzzle her..for good.
Politicians, playing their bipartisan dirty games to each other, event accusing a president in a court, are something else... The post and functions are to be accountable, we are not into a broken Scientologist that is thrown again in David against Goliath battle with Goliath using unlimited destructive weapons.
This is a very sad decision and is very troubling though and I too feel there is no justice
Yes to @Karen#1, silence is not the answer to abuse. Some, who have more weapons like legal network, money, support, media attention and many supporters may be in a position to do something and gladly many will do. Others who are not in in a position to fight the suppression without ressources to go through it, shall move on, given some will keep exposing the cult abuses.
Also, Leah aftermath show has featured all the possible ways people will move onyo theit next step, involved or not in the battle.
I wish this girl can meet her goal.
Politicians, playing their bipartisan dirty games to each other, event accusing a president in a court, are something else... The post and functions are to be accountable, we are not into a broken Scientologist that is thrown again in David against Goliath battle with Goliath using unlimited destructive weapons.
This is a very sad decision and is very troubling though and I too feel there is no justice
Yes to @Karen#1, silence is not the answer to abuse. Some, who have more weapons like legal network, money, support, media attention and many supporters may be in a position to do something and gladly many will do. Others who are not in in a position to fight the suppression without ressources to go through it, shall move on, given some will keep exposing the cult abuses.
Also, Leah aftermath show has featured all the possible ways people will move onyo theit next step, involved or not in the battle.
I wish this girl can meet her goal.
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Karen#1
Well-known member
Mike Rinder said on his blog today :
When I spoke to Valerie, she put it perfectly: “A judge asking me to engage in a religious arbitration with a religion I escaped from and am no longer part of is a far cry from anything I had expected from a rational court. I’m not going away. I am not going to be shut down or shut up. The battle has just begun. All this does it harden my resolve to bring an end to the abuses.”
When I spoke to Valerie, she put it perfectly: “A judge asking me to engage in a religious arbitration with a religion I escaped from and am no longer part of is a far cry from anything I had expected from a rational court. I’m not going away. I am not going to be shut down or shut up. The battle has just begun. All this does it harden my resolve to bring an end to the abuses.”
KKS
“Knowing yourself is the beginning of all wisdom.”
ILove2Lurk
. . Lisbeth Salander . . Back in Sweden
California and its laws, judges and court systems are a legal “bizarro world”
– an alternate universe where everything is “reversed" in some way.
Those of you who have lived in the state or pay attention to the national news
on Fox would know what I mean. At times it seems that criminals have more rights
than the honest and law abiding. I sat in on a trial as a juror once and I was horrified
at what I heard and saw from prosecutors and defense lawyers. I will refuse to ever
serve again. It’s just a nightmare, start to finish. Not for "normal" people with a
grounded sense of right and wrong.
California is the perfect place for the international headquarters (hideout) of the
COS corporations. I doubt any California court has any chance of taking them down,
no matter how many millions COS bilks from people. Only the federal government
could ever do something about this criminal scheme and they don’t have the stomach
for it. Taking on Scientology for five to ten years in federal courts would not further
anyone’s government career. Not to mention the budget it would take that could be
used instead to take down the deep state’s enemies or hide one's own crimes.
After all, this is a small religious cult with less than 20,000 adherents worldwide right
now. So who cares?
After today's court results in LA and after seeing bits and pieces of what’s going
on in Washington this week, I don’t have too much hope for the COS to be brought
to heel in our lifetimes. And I really, really hate to say that.
If anyone has any words of encouragement, I'd sure welcome them.
– an alternate universe where everything is “reversed" in some way.
Bizzaro World
“Heroes are villains and vice versa; beauty is hated and ugliness embraced.
A good/evil flip is the usual trope, allowing the heroes to work together with
the bizarro version of their enemies (who are, of course, heroes in bizarro world).”
Those of you who have lived in the state or pay attention to the national news
on Fox would know what I mean. At times it seems that criminals have more rights
than the honest and law abiding. I sat in on a trial as a juror once and I was horrified
at what I heard and saw from prosecutors and defense lawyers. I will refuse to ever
serve again. It’s just a nightmare, start to finish. Not for "normal" people with a
grounded sense of right and wrong.
California is the perfect place for the international headquarters (hideout) of the
COS corporations. I doubt any California court has any chance of taking them down,
no matter how many millions COS bilks from people. Only the federal government
could ever do something about this criminal scheme and they don’t have the stomach
for it. Taking on Scientology for five to ten years in federal courts would not further
anyone’s government career. Not to mention the budget it would take that could be
used instead to take down the deep state’s enemies or hide one's own crimes.
After all, this is a small religious cult with less than 20,000 adherents worldwide right
now. So who cares?
After today's court results in LA and after seeing bits and pieces of what’s going
on in Washington this week, I don’t have too much hope for the COS to be brought
to heel in our lifetimes. And I really, really hate to say that.
If anyone has any words of encouragement, I'd sure welcome them.
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HelluvaHoax!
Well-known member
.
I happen to have quite an extensive amount
of personal knowledge about this subject. ,
Encouraging words about California courts?
Sure, I can think of one (1) that gives hope for justice.
I saw the word on Jeopardy.
"E _ _ _ _ Q _ _ _ _"
of personal knowledge about this subject. ,
Encouraging words about California courts?
Sure, I can think of one (1) that gives hope for justice.
I saw the word on Jeopardy.
"E _ _ _ _ Q _ _ _ _"
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Karen#1
Well-known member
I do not share any of these views but I do understand why you could come to these conclusions.
Judge's final decisions are a pure guess
Don't forget how Judges have viewed the cult after listening to testimony for weeks, months, years
Twenty Things Judges Have Said About Scientology
Twenty Things Judges Have Said About Scientology Source: Lermanet.com “[The court record is] replete with evidence [that Scientology] is nothing in reality but a vast enterprise to extract the maximum amount of […]
scientologymoneyproject.com
Karen#1
Well-known member
Some good ones here ~~
www.villagevoice.com
The 5 Worst Things Judges Have Said About Scientology - The Village Voice
Monday evening, we learned that Debbie Cook, who dared to question the health of her religion, is being sued by the Church of Scientology. That...
www.villagevoice.com
Type4_PTS
Well-known member
Mike Rinder's blog gives a wider and more comprehensive view to the ruling today
Concerning Scientology “Religious Arbitration”
Great analysis by Mike Rinder!
ILove2Lurk
. . Lisbeth Salander . . Back in Sweden
Well, I agree with you. Here's one quote I especially like:
“[The court record is] replete with evidence [that Scientology] is nothing in reality but a vast
enterprise to extract the maximum amount of money from its adepts by pseudo scientific
theories… and to exercise a kind of blackmail against persons who do not wish to continue with
their sect…. The organization clearly is schizophrenic and paranoid, and this bizarre combination
seems to be a reflection of its founder, L.Ron Hubbard.” —Judge Breckenridge, Los Angeles
Superior Court
Since Judge Breckenridge's statement -- was it 1991? -- the amount of money that
has been bilked from honest and unsuspecting people is probably in the neighborhood
of about $3 billion, since that's the COS's estimated net worth right now.
So opinions by judges are one thing, deliberate action to stop the fraudulent extraction
of money is what has never happened in the years I've been following this. I feel very bad
for the people who paid in the $3 billion and especially so if they're older or infirmed and
don't have the money to age with dignity.
I don't have any answers to any of this. Just venting today. It's a frustrating day for everyone.
Lots of comments over at Tony's. People are in disbelief over all this.
Tony had raised expectations pretty high last year about this legal "dream team" and all
the cases they were going to win. Seems like all the court briefs are pretty badly written
and full of grammar errors. So Tony revealed on his blog. Just disappointing.
"That document was even more sloppy. I mean, this is simply the most error-filled,
semi-literate court filing that I've ever seen that wasn't submitted by a prison inmate."
Tony Ortega
Footnote: I thought that Michael Flynn Was the toughest, smartest, most thorough lawyer
that ever took on Scientology . . . from about 1980 to 1986. He really was a force of nature
as far as an opponent to Scientology is concerned.
I've carefully listened to over 13 hours of Attorney Michael Flynn's talks about Armstrong 1
and various other litigations he was involved in several times and taken copious notes. All
because of my own curiosity, but mostly because I was so incredulous of how much sordid
information about Hubbard and inside workings of the financial scams that came out back
then. That was all long, long ago -- 1980 is already 40 years ago. Sadly, not enough has
changed since then.
###
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ILove2Lurk
. . Lisbeth Salander . . Back in Sweden
Reposted comments by Tony Ortega
Tony Ortega Mod •
If you were Valerie, would you go through all that [arbitration] shit? I wonder if she could appeal
now, without going through that nonsense. And if not, I wonder if any of it is really worth it. It's
not Valerie's job to fix a fucked up court system.
Tony Ortega Mod •
Yeah, TX Lawyer reminded me of what the Garcias had to do. They agonized over going
through Scientology's stupid arbitration and being the first ones to do so because they
didn't want to legitimize it. But they knew they couldn't appeal without first going through
the arbitration. And remember, it took a year and a half just to get the arbitrators in place.
Now, seven years after filing their lawsuit, they're waiting for an appeal ruling. Does Valerie
want to go through all that, and with these attorneys?
Click on Tony's name to see all his comments from today. Good stuff.
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HelluvaHoax!
Well-known member
PART II: Okay, I have an updated word. . .
"TEFLON"
This is a cheery kind of word.
It's a "glass is half full" kinda word, which for Scientology would be translated to:
"THE CULT IS HALF F*CKED"
The bad news is that the cult is still defrauding people despite 70 years of debunking.
The good news is, like any organized crime racket, the proven solution is for legal war to be waged against any kind of mafia, both civil and criminal.
It's a costly war of attrition. World War II caused the death of 75,000,000 people before Hitler and his death cult was finally crushed and some measure of justice was achieved.
No single case vs. Scientology is going to topple their diabolical crime wave. Similarly, despite massive efforts by local and federal prosecutors to topple the murderous "Teflon Don" mafia leader John Gotti--it required dozens of arrests, indictments, and trials over decades to finally convict him and lock him in a penitentiary for life.
Wars capture real estate an inch at a time in an agonizingly slow process.
Scientology has become a hated & ridiculed cult. Their numbers have precipitously dwindled. The internet and other major media instruments have doomed them with a fate they cannot ever reverse. They can never hide the pathological history of their criminal organization. They can never escape the words and deeds of their sociopathically vindictive and violent leaders Hubbard & Miscavige. In a large sense, the war is already over, but a few thousand fanatics are still hiding in remote jungles like the Japanese soldiers who didn't surrender until decades after the war was over.
By no means I am inferring that all these civil cases are not valuable, despite whatever outcome they reach. Quite the opposite, they are priceless mappings of the cult's internal DNA.
I consider the past couple decades of litigation vs. the cult of Scn to be analogous to vital reconnaissance flyovers of enemy strongholds, prior to dialing up the exact locations where bombs are dropped or smart missiles will land.
I asked myself: "But what about all the people still being victimized by the treacherous cult?!!!"
I have an answer that works for me, although others may find it rather--politically incorrect.
I have resolved that question in favor of the metrics as I regard ALCOHOL.
-- Some enjoy it
-- Some become alcoholics and have their lives ruined.
-- Some die because of it.
But, that's life. People are allowed to make absurdly and tragically self-destructive decisions.
If people want to get ripped off and suffer psychological and financial abuse at the hands of an avariciously cruel cult, they can do it. If they want to let their lives be ruined, they can. If they want to see their businesses and families destroyed, they can.
It's 2020. The information is literally EVERYWHERE IN EVERY CORNER OF THE WORLD where Scientology is sold. Any place there is a Scientologist handing out "free tickets" on the street or taking WOGS money---there are computers, cell phones and the internet. So it is literally IMPOSSIBLE for someone to not know what Scientology is if they did even 1 minute of due diligence.
People who buy the services of unlicensed con artists to work on their mind---without checking them out first---well, Caveat Emptor.
Even someone buying flashlight batteries on Amazon knows enough to read a couple review to see if they are counterfeits or if customers said they didn't even work and they couldn't get a refund.
CONCLUSION: Scientology is not teflon. It's not even good at hiding it's lies from the public. It is horrifically bad at that. The only thing they are good at is in a courtroom where professional tricksters (aka defense attorneys) are very good at delaying & derailing justice. That's all that's happening, Scientology has bought a little extra time. But, they are badly wounded and laying on the pavement---bleeding out! Thus, delaying & buying a little extra time is sure going to kill them too.
.
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A shit decision by an incompetent judge. Very disappointing indeed. Hopefully the Masterson case's judge will not be so inclined.
ILove2Lurk
. . Lisbeth Salander . . Back in Sweden
Thank you for all that. That's just the way it all is.
Great post!
We've all certainly done our parts, in our own ways, for many years,
chronicling our stories and views on ESMB and ESMB2. And those
encyclopedic resources will last for all time fortunately.
It's been a lot of years in the foxholes.
