The shocking podcast about Neil Gaiman, and our participation in it

[Karen#1]

TONY ORTEGA
Excerpt:

​

You may have heard about the four-part podcast from Tortoise Media (a British news site created in 2019 by a former BBC news director) that premiered on Wednesday, about two women who say they were in consensual relationships with author Neil Gaiman, but who each allege that they experienced what they consider sexual assault to have occurred in those relationships. Gaiman denies that the two relationships were anything but consensual.

It’s not a simple story to tell, but one that is told with great sensitivity and consummate skill over four episodes by journalists Paul Caruana Galizia and Rachel Johnson (who happens to be the sister of Boris Johnson).

The two of them called in March to go over Neil’s Scientology upbringing, which we have written about at length at the Village Voice and here at the Underground Bunker. Some excerpts of our interview with them show up in episode three of the podcast.

READ MORE

The shocking podcast about Neil Gaiman, and our participation in it

You may have heard about the four-part podcast from Tortoise Media (a British news site created in 2019 by a former BBC news director) that premiered on Wednesday, about two women who say they were in consensual relationships with author Neil Gaiman, but who each allege that they experienced...

tonyortega.substack.com

 

[Enthetan]

consider sexual assault to have occurred

I’m getting rather tired of hearing these stories of women who, years after the relationship ends, step up and declare that, upon reflection, they regard themselves as having been mistreated.

Either speak up and make a police complaint within a week of it having allegedly happened, or move on.

 

[Reyne Mayer]

I’m getting rather tired of hearing these stories of women who, years after the relationship ends, step up and declare that, upon reflection, they regard themselves as having been mistreated.

Either speak up and make a police complaint within a week of it having allegedly happened, or move on.

so do you think that should apply to everyone who experienced abuse in the CoS -- don't want to hear from them if it wasn't reported to the police at the time time?

it seems to me that there are actually a lot of similarities to consider, including that victims may not at the time have realized (or been in condition to recognize) that what happened to them was a crime, or were still in a controlled environment where timely reporting to authorities was close to impossible.

also, in many cases women considered themselves mistreated, abused or victimized immediately or shortly after, and said so to others -- as occurred with at least one of the victims:

Tortoise has seen contemporaneous messages, notes, and spoken to friends who Scarlett talked to at the time, which supports her allegations.

Exclusive: Neil Gaiman accused of sexual assault

Author denies allegations by two women who had been in consensual relationships with him.

www.tortoisemedia.com

 

[Supreme Rular]

I’m getting rather tired of hearing these stories of women who, years after the relationship ends, step up and declare that, upon reflection, they regard themselves as having been mistreated.

Either speak up and make a police complaint within a week of it having allegedly happened, or move on.

That very ignorant. I was abused severely in a relationship for 3 years when I was 17. He was 10 years older than me and I has no support network. I was terrified of him and when I got to age of 25 I moved to Australia to leave all my trauma behind. But it followed me. Still, I was too scared to confront it for years. I finally did last year at the age of 43. I opened a historical abuse case. Have to relive every detail over and over and then be videotaped and worry that people won't believe you, or if the abuser will come after you is NOT easy.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

I’m getting rather tired of hearing these stories of women who, years after the relationship ends, step up and declare that, upon reflection, they regard themselves as having been mistreated.

Either speak up and make a police complaint within a week of it having allegedly happened, or move on.

Not as easy as that. Sometimes people who have been abused need time to process it, particularly if they've been in a manipulative relationship where they had an abusive partner who deceived them over a period of some years into thinking that their abnormal behaviour towards them was in fact normal.

(Also, if the woman's father was abusive towards her mother in the same way she would be more likely to accept it as normal because she wouldn't know any different.)

 

[Enthetan]

Not as easy as that. Sometimes people who have been abused need time to process it, particularly if they've been in a manipulative relationship where they had an abusive partner who deceived them over a period of some years into thinking that their abnormal behaviour towards them was in fact normal.

(Also, if the woman's father was abusive towards her mother in the same way she would be more likely to accept it as normal because she wouldn't know any different.)

And sometimes people make false accusations, whether out of desiring revenge for being left, or wanting money, or other reasons. So, yes, it’s not simple and can be messy.

Case in point, Amber Heard vs Johnny Depp

Depp v. Heard - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The jury ruled that Heard's op-ed references to "sexual violence" and "domestic abuse" were false and defamed Depp with actual malice. It awarded Depp $10 million in compensatory damages and $5 million in punitive damages from Heard

Also, it is not uncommon to encounter false abuse accusations in divorce cases, to get a more favorable settlement or to get custody of children

How Often Is Domestic Violence Involved in A Divorce Case? | The Law Office Phillips & Allen PA

Domestic Violence is involved in divorce cases quite often. Approximately one out of five of the divorce cases that we...

www.westernmarylandlawyers.com

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Oh sure, you will always (unfortunately) get people who cry wolf; I'm talking about the genuine cases.

In the city I grew up in, a guy called a radio 'phone in program a while back and said he was driving a car and stopped (unwisely as it happened) to pick up two teenage girls. They tried to blackmail him by telling them that if he didn't give them £10 (each I think, though I'm not sure) they'd report him to the police and say he tried to assault them.

He had the presence of mind to call their bluff and tell them; "OK then, let's do it now" and drove them to the local police station, whereupon they ran off as soon as the car reached the station. The police officer he reported the scam to said it was the third such case that week.

None of that detracts though from the fact that the police station would also have had genuine sexual assault cases to deal with.

 

[Enthetan]

Oh sure, you will always (unfortunately) get people who cry wolf; I'm talking about the genuine cases.

That’s the problem: being able to tell which are genuine and which are false.

And then there are the cases where the woman is genuinely upset by the behavior of the guy, but where the guy did nothing illegal.

For example, I’ve seen university websites where they would classify the guy saying “Either we have sex more often or I’m leaving” as abusive behavior.

 

[Reyne Mayer]

And sometimes people make false accusations, whether out of desiring revenge for being left, or wanting money, or other reasons. So, yes, it’s not simple and can be messy.

the rate of false accusations of sexual abuse, is about the same as the rate of false convictions for about any crime.

sure there are some, and in some situations like divorce they may be elevated. but just consider that the idea of dismissing them out of hand, goes hand in hand with the concept of just opening all the jail doors under the old precept that it's better that that 10/100 men (it's always gendered like that, isn't it) go free rather than one be unjustly imprisoned.....

and while single accuser cases may be questionable -- and i'll admit, the parties involved may have seen things differently in the moment -- it should be noted when there are multiple accusers, the possibility of them all being false accusations quickly approaches zero statistically (even if you assume 10% for one, probably high, 2 is 1%, 3 is .1% and so on).

 

[Enthetan]

the rate of false accusations of sexual abuse, is about the same as the rate of false convictions for about any crime.

sure there are some, and in some situations like divorce they may be elevated. but just consider that the idea of dismissing them out of hand, goes hand in hand with the concept of just opening all the jail doors under the old precept that it's better that that 10/100 men (it's always gendered like that, isn't it) go free rather than one be unjustly imprisoned.....

and while single accuser cases may be questionable -- and i'll admit, the parties involved may have seen things differently in the moment -- it should be noted when there are multiple accusers, the possibility of them all being false accusations quickly approaches zero statistically (even if you assume 10% for one, probably high, 2 is 1%, 3 is .1% and so on).

The rate of rape allegations PROVEN FALSE, in one study, was 5.9%. This does not take into account the allegations where it's impossible to prove the allegation one way or the other.

False allegations of sexual assualt: an analysis of ten years of reported cases - PubMed

One of the most controversial disputes affecting the discourse related to violence against women is the dispute about the frequency of false allegations of sexual assault. In an effort to add clarity to the discourse, published research on false allegations is critiqued, and the results of a new...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The falsity rate may be as high as 40%

https://apnews.com/article/b5c40b513448cfc1269d51d923bb76f7

The rate of false allegations, where the complainant may be seeking money compensation, is likely higher.

We also have the cases where an inexperienced and nerdy guy may have misinterpreted signals, thinking she was agreeable, when she was ambivalent.

We also have cases where the woman may have been agreeable initially, but then after the fact decided she didn't like the experience.

 

[XenuHimself]

The research paper would have more gravitas if they spelled 'assault' properly.

The rate of rape allegations PROVEN FALSE, in one study, was 5.9%. This does not take into account the allegations where it's impossible to prove the allegation one way or the other.

False allegations of sexual assualt: an analysis of ten years of reported cases - PubMed

One of the most controversial disputes affecting the discourse related to violence against women is the dispute about the frequency of false allegations of sexual assault. In an effort to add clarity to the discourse, published research on false allegations is critiqued, and the results of a new...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The falsity rate may be as high as 40%

https://apnews.com/article/b5c40b513448cfc1269d51d923bb76f7

The rate of false allegations, where the complainant may be seeking money compensation, is likely higher.

We also have the cases where an inexperienced and nerdy guy may have misinterpreted signals, thinking she was agreeable, when she was ambivalent.

We also have cases where the woman may have been agreeable initially, but then after the fact decided she didn't like the experience.

 

[I M Dex]

The research paper would have more gravitas if they spelled 'assault' properly.

As opposed to appepper.

 

[Enthetan]

The research paper would have more gravitas if they spelled 'assault' properly.

It’s spelled correctly at Sage Publications, which is what the NIH site links to.

Blame the NIH government employees who set up the entry, for not knowing how to spell.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1077801210387747

 

[The_Fixer]

the rate of false accusations of sexual abuse, is about the same as the rate of false convictions for about any crime.

sure there are some, and in some situations like divorce they may be elevated. but just consider that the idea of dismissing them out of hand, goes hand in hand with the concept of just opening all the jail doors under the old precept that it's better that that 10/100 men (it's always gendered like that, isn't it) go free rather than one be unjustly imprisoned.....

and while single accuser cases may be questionable -- and i'll admit, the parties involved may have seen things differently in the moment -- it should be noted when there are multiple accusers, the possibility of them all being false accusations quickly approaches zero statistically (even if you assume 10% for one, probably high, 2 is 1%, 3 is .1% and so on).

I was just reading recently about some retired police detectives here in Australia that of all the rape charges they investigated, approximately 90% of them were false and/or erroneous allegations. If I can find the article again, I'll try to link it.

Yes there are false claims. There are true claims. The carry on about most of them going unreported is an odd deal. How does one actually tally up all the unreported claims? It isn't even possible. The potential margins for error there under the title of rape are considerable. How do you prove that it is rape when the story isn't displayed or even verified? Someone makes a claim and it becomes a statistic with no further thought or action. How do we know if she is genuine or just playing a game?

On a sort of related note, read this article about the domestic violence industry here in Australia. This points directly at the feminist activist industry here that is hell bent upon the perversion of justice:

Whistleblower police

- Reluctant enforcers for feminist DV regime

bettinaarndt.substack.com

Then there is this article describing some cases of tragedy that are quite shocking:

The Arndt Army

- Changing the lives of men

bettinaarndt.substack.com

Ignore the fanfare parts, it is tongue in cheek after her long campaign of trying to level out the scales of justice. Our laws now are guilty until proven (not that it will matter) innocent. Either way, you will still be punished. Unless you are female, then you are untouchable.

Given those articles at least (and they are only 2 of a long list), it points in a direction that women's claims need to be investigated in a fair but impartial manner. But the courts, the legal industry and politicians need to come on board with that philosophy as well. "Believe all women" has become a very tainted slogan now and if a backlash begins soon enough, it will bring down any real advancements that have been achieved at the end of the day.

Signs are appearing that the backlash has already started. The results will not be pretty.

This kind of justice also spills over into other unintended consequences.

For example, we have had speed cameras here for some years now and if any photos were not 100% right, they were discarded.

We have now cameras that detect mobile phones in use whist driving and at the same time detect if you are not wearing your seat belt. There is a growing army of people who have been snapped with no phone visible that are being fined and they are challenging this in court, only to find that it doesn't matter. They have charged you and you cannot prove yourself innocent even if the evidence says so. The police have been given a blank slate to do what they will and they do not even require evidence anymore. Much like in DV cases.

 

[Enthetan]

 

[Enthetan]

the rate of false accusations of sexual abuse, is about the same as the rate of false convictions for about any crime.

sure there are some, and in some situations like divorce they may be elevated. but just consider that the idea of dismissing them out of hand, goes hand in hand with the concept of just opening all the jail doors under the old precept that it's better that that 10/100 men (it's always gendered like that, isn't it) go free rather than one be unjustly imprisoned.....

and while single accuser cases may be questionable -- and i'll admit, the parties involved may have seen things differently in the moment -- it should be noted when there are multiple accusers, the possibility of them all being false accusations quickly approaches zero statistically (even if you assume 10% for one, probably high, 2 is 1%, 3 is .1% and so on).

https://twitter.com/x/status/1881790449775423662

 

[Enthetan]

Yes there are false claims. There are true claims. The carry on about most of them going unreported is an odd deal. How does one actually tally up all the unreported claims? It isn't even possible. The potential margins for error there under the title of rape are considerable. How do you prove that it is rape when the story isn't displayed or even verified? Someone makes a claim and it becomes a statistic with no further thought or action. How do we know if she is genuine or just playing a game?

I would separate out “stranger rape” from “acquaintance rape”.

Women have less motive to lie about some guy holding a knife to her throat.

 

[I M Dex]

As everything in life, it comes down to fact that each moment and circumstance is unique, and should only be experienced directly and not through projections and filters of personal attitude. It seems most people crave some kind of pre-empting way of seeing things so that they don't have to experience being present in the new and unfamiliar moment.
"There is no expedient to which a man will not resort to avoid the true labor of thinking"- Sir Joshua Reynolds (1723-1792).
I saw this quote on a poster when on a 3rd grade field trip to Thomas Edison's laboratory in West Orange, NJ in 1963, and its profundity stuck and stayed with me ever since.