Scio Susceptibility

The space opera Xenu thing came up on OT3. Thus, people could be years in Scientology before this stuff came up.

The other thing to take into account is the enormous amount of money and times invested to arrive there, and our fellow Scientologist who testified for years, this has been a game changer in their life : they went through the wall of fire successfully, without any injury 🔥🙄
 
How can a person possibly believe the space opera, astral travel, past life, move stuff with your mind claims without any confirmatory evidence whatsoever?
When you first get into scn they tell you you don't need to believe anything. If someone had told me I had to take anything on faith I'd never have stuck around; I was definitely not interested in any religion where you had to do that. But instead they tell you, "Nothing in scn is true except what is true for you. Find something in scn you can agree with and use that. Don't worry about the rest for now."

Well, there are some things in scn almost anyone would agree with. It's not all complete bullshit. There are some things in the beginning that actually work. I got a lot out of the Comm Course, which is the first course most people do. It really did improve my ability to communicate and gave me a big boost in self-confidence.

I wasn't aware, however, that one of the drills on the course, TR-0 (Training routine zero) can induce a hypnotic trance. While doing the drill I had what I thought was an intense mystical experience, which I recently wrote about:


This appeared to me to be very strong confirmatory evidence that it was all true. After that I was sold.

And I was young and naive and it was 1975. No internet so I couldn't just google scientology and see that it's got 99.999 % bad reviews. I did read 2 anti-scn books before the Comm Course, but there's no way they could compete with what I thought was the greatest mystical experience of my life.
 
My friend back in the 70s - who was a very low level Scientologist - was telling me about the space opera aspects even then. I find it hard to believe this never came up. Not Xenu/body thetans certainly. But the 'soul astronaut' space opera stuff certainly did.

The space opera Xenu thing came up on OT3. Thus, people could be years in Scientology before this stuff came up.

The other thing to take into account is the enormous amount of money and times invested to arrive there, and our fellow Scientologist who testified for years, this has been a game changer in their life : they went through the wall of fire successfully, without any injury 🔥🙄
 
i generally agree with the accepted wisdom that people get into groups like cults, mostly because they're at a point of vulnerability.

however, i'm starting to think that people who stay in an abusive high control group like scientology for extended periods often do so because they have and/or develop certain traits that make them more susceptible.

there are some characteristics that have been proposed, some of which are to some extent supported by research, or at least the consensus of people who have a lot of experience in the area and may have been members of such groups themselves. here's a fairly comprehensive one that i don't necessarily agree with completely, but am going to post this in its entirety for the purposes of consideration and discussion:

PREDISPOSING FACTORS MAY FACILITATE ATTRACTION TO A CULTIC SYSTEM
Most experts agree, though, that whether the joiner is young or old, certain predisposing factors may facilitate attraction to a cultic system, the success of recruitment and indoctrination efforts, and the length and depth of involvement. These factors include:


  • A desire to belong

  • Unassertiveness (the inability to say no or express criticism or doubt)

  • Gullibility (impaired capacity to question critically what one is told, observes, thinks, and so forth)

  • Low tolerance for ambiguity (need for absolute answers, impatience to obtain answers)

  • Cultural disillusionment (alienation, dissatisfaction with the status quo)

  • Idealism

  • Susceptibility to trance-like states (in some cases, perhaps, due to prior hallucinogenic drug experiences)

  • A lack of self-confidence

  • A desire for spiritual meaning

  • Ignorance of how groups can manipulate individuals 3
A wide range of human susceptibility emerges when we combine the list of predisposing factors with the potential vulnerabilities mentioned above. The stereotype of a recruit is a young person worried about leaving college or uncertain about “facing life.”


ANYONE MAY BE DRAWN IN BY A CULT’S APPEAL
The reality, however, is that anyone, at any age — in a moment of confusion, personal crisis, or simply a life transition — may become attracted to or drawn in by a cult’s appeal.

The reality is that anyone, at any age, may become attracted to or drawn in by a cult's appeal

“New in town, lost a job, recently divorced, a friend or family member just died, need a career change, feel a little blue?” The unstable and anxious feelings experienced at such times make a person vulnerable, whether that person is twenty or seventy years old.

If a vulnerable person happens to cross paths with a cult advertisement or personal recruiter putting forth even a mildly interesting offer, then that ad will likely pay for itself and that recruiter will stand a good chance of making her mark.

According to Michael Langone, “Conversion to cults is not truly a matter of choice. Vulnerabilities do not merely “lead’ individuals to a particular group. The group manipulates these vulnerabilities and deceives prospects in order to persuade them to join and, ultimately, renounce their old lives.” 4


see also:

 
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My friend back in the 70s - who was a very low level Scientologist - was telling me about the space opera aspects even then. I find it hard to believe this never came up. Not Xenu/body thetans certainly. But the 'soul astronaut' space opera stuff certainly did.
I knew about the space opera stuff from the beginning too. I didn't necessarily believe it.

Your friend who told you about it -- what was his take on it? Did he believe it?

I understand if you go to a scn org now they have the books shrink-wrapped so you have to buy them if you want to read them, but it wasn't that way back when I got in. All the books were sitting there in reception so you could pick them up and browse if you wanted to. So I saw all the crazy space opera stuff.

But there was that saying that "nothing is scientology is true except what is true for you." Nobody was telling me that I had to believe this. It was certainly very far out, but hey, what did I know? I'd never audited anybody or had any auditing myself. Maybe people really did come up with this kind of stuff. Maybe we all really had gone through stuff like this, billions and trillions of years ago.

If stuff like that really happened, wouldn't you want to know about it?

I should also add that scientology prices were much cheaper in the 70's than they are now. If I'd seen today's prices -- or even the prices they were charging 30 years ago -- I think I'd have realized it was a scam. But when I got in auditing was $25/hr. It wasn't cheap, but it wasn't ridiculously expensive, like now. So it wasn't so obviously a ripoff.
 
Why do some people start smoking cigarettes despite all the information about the harmful effects it has?

Why do some teenagers ignore their parents' advice and do what they want anyway?

I think it's because some people want to find out for themselves and learn by experience.
 
Why do some people start smoking cigarettes despite all the information about the harmful effects it has?

Why do some teenagers ignore their parents' advice and do what they want anyway?

I think it's because some people want to find out for themselves and learn by experience.

Maybe, but also I think for a lot of young people who start smoking, it's because they see it as "cool;" either through films, advertising (in some countries) or because someone they know and admire smokes.
 
Yes he believed everything Scientology said.
I would love to say I saw right thru it. I would today. As a teen I was not sure.
Maybe he'd already had some mind-blowing experience like the one I had on the Comm Course.

Did he mention anything like that? Anything he considered very strong evidence that scn was true?
 
Yes. As I recall, he thought he had had some kind of OBE on something called 'Life Repair'. He was also convinced some of the higher level scientologists exhibited some paranormal abilities though I don't recall the details.

Maybe he'd already had some mind-blowing experience like the one I had on the Comm Course.

Did he mention anything like that? Anything he considered very strong evidence that scn was true?
 
Yes he believed everything Scientology said.
I would love to say I saw right thru it. I would today. As a teen I was not sure.

The space opera your friend accepted was probably Hubbard talking about alien civilizations and not the specifics on Hubbard's Wall of Fire. Any belief in the existence of extraterrestrial life and a belief in or being agnostic about an afterlife or reincarnation would allow someone to gloss over that stuff with a who knows - maybe attitude. A universe with trillions of stars and planets is also somewhat mystical.

oops - I just looked above and I see he wasn't talking about Xenu.
 
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i just ran across this, which over on the cult side (left column) is a nice reframing of a lot of generally agreed upon cult characteristics, including their allure:

wxjpuve6e8391.png


related to that last point, 'special knowledge' is a classic cult characteristic, and also the 'certainty' that goes with it:

slide_3.jpg


the 'transformation of lifestyle' isn't so obvious in scientology except for those who join the sea org -- but then you look at staff and i think you start to see a more subtle shift to a life of living hand-to-mouth with no planning for the future, that's part of a rejection of many mainstream values (education, accumulating assets not debts, retirement, etc.) that carries over to much of the 'public' membership.
 
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One of the responders to this thread was listing the beliefs of traditional religions stating (one would assume) they are no more preternatural or unbelievable that those of Scientology. While that in itself may be true, this points out some of the other significant differences. The last one is striking 'unlike traditional religious organizations, cults pressure new recruits to cut off ties with old friends and family'

i just ran across this, which over on the cult side is a nice reframing of a lot of generally agreed up cult characteristics, including their allure:

wxjpuve6e8391.png


related to that last point, 'special knowledge' is a classic cult characteristic, and also the 'certainty' that goes with it:

slide_3.jpg


the 'transformation of lifestyle' isn't so obvious in scientology except for those who join the sea org -- but then you look at staff and i think you start to see a more subtle shift to a life of living hand-to-mouth with no planning for the future, that's part of a rejection of many mainstream values (education, accumulating assets not debts, retirement, etc.) that carries over to much of the 'public' membership.
 
i just ran across this, which over on the cult side (left column) is a nice reframing of a lot of generally agreed upon cult characteristics, including their allure:

wxjpuve6e8391.png


related to that last point, 'special knowledge' is a classic cult characteristic, and also the 'certainty' that goes with it:

slide_3.jpg


the 'transformation of lifestyle' isn't so obvious in scientology except for those who join the sea org -- but then you look at staff and i think you start to see a more subtle shift to a life of living hand-to-mouth with no planning for the future, that's part of a rejection of many mainstream values (education, accumulating assets not debts, retirement, etc.) that carries over to much of the 'public' membership.

You can go down those points and scientology very obviously does all of those things.

As far as transformation of life style, sea org is obviously the extreme example but I think even public scientologists go through this. As a scientologist you aren't supposed to fit scientology into your life, you are supposed to build your life around scientology. Some do it more than others, but I agree that all scientologists experience a life style change.
 
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