Scientology experience: pros and cons

[Churchill]

The forum is about all sorts of things. Criticizing scientology is certainly the #1 family-oriented entertainment in these here parts.

Wrong.
Criticizing Scientology is an essential part of the recovery process, which involves coming to terms with the profound trauma Scientology inflicts, and which we, as Scientologists, inflicted upon others.
Trauma that lasts for decades.
Trivialize it much, K-rum?
The ”#1 family-oriented entertainment in these here parts” is entirely different.

 

[ILove2Lurk]

Condemning Hubbard as suicidal based on an interpretive statement by Sarge is questionable to me.

Your choice. Totally up to you.

The COS, David Miscavige and OSA have never publicly rebutted* the "suicide narrative,"
though I'd think that's something they'd want to refute in writing considering all the
promises LRH made for the tech. And those hyperbolic promises are still being sold
to this day for a fortune.

For other exes who would like to delve deeper into the subject, pretty damning
narratives and passages have been documented and I'll just leave this for
future visitors to the message board:

Last chapter of Going Clear by Lawrence Wright: "And also kill the body."​

​

Chapter 24 of Scientology Warrior by Mark "Marty" Rathbun: ". . . and kill the body."​

​

This supplementary video on Youtube from the Going Clear Kindle book.​

A doctor standing at bedside for days [Gene Denk] after any person has had
a severe stroke and does not call an ambulance to rush said patient to the hospital
for life saving treatment . . . one would call that an "assisted suicide," I believe.

Most people in my neighborhood would anyways.

That said, believe what you wish. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Spoiler: * asterisk note

The only public denunciations of this story over the years have come
in the form of sock-puppets -- not real people -- hired by OSA to try to
question the narratives or move them and bury them in thread. I've
watched and followed these guys for years. Pretty transparent.

The COS has never publicly said a word. It's their "third rail" issue and
they've avoided discussing it.

 

[Deleted member 51]

Hi Sheila
Yes, i was a staff member for about 6 months. I couldn't stand the stat pushing, tyrannical management, low pay and stupidly long hours longer than that. It was a wake up call.
I believe that much Scientology management is corrupt. I believe that a lot of poor people have been brainwashed and estranged from their loving families. I believe that people have been manipulated into losing their time, money, dignity and status. I believe that too many people have been programmed to take abuse, and to believe that it is right, when it is dead wrong. This is all wrong in the extreme. But many of the principle goals that Scientology has advertised are worthy goals. The problems are that people like Hubbard and Miscavage have perverted those goals and profited from the natural human need to better him/herself.
I was a selfish prick when i was in my late teens. But learning and experiencing a few things from Scientology allowed me to become self aware and a better person. But, unlike so many others, that self awareness made me question Scientology too. I learned to trust my gut. And my gut said their was something wrong in my org, and in the way Scientology was being run.
The idea of an organised and powerful organisation, whose goal is to save mankind from itself is fantastic. I just wish it was a reality.

Thanks for letting me know, Dygong.

Most teen boys are selfish and self-centered. They are not fully adults and most grow out of it. It is a vulnerable time, though, when a person is very impressionable, so cults like Scientology like to prey on college kids and teenagers because they do not yet have the knowledge or life experience to see what the world has to offer and work out their own solutions to their dilemmas.

Because of your early, young indoctrination into Scientology, you probably never learned about things like Eric Erikson's stages of psychosocial development. If you had, the foreknowledge that your psychosocial growth was natural and not a ruin to be handled might have armed you better against Scientology's recruitment and indoctrination tactics. Below is Erikson's description of the teenage psychosocial growth stage. I hope this helps you understand how you got roped into it, identifying yourself as a Scientologist at the time:

"Fidelity: identity vs. role confusion (adolescence, 12–19 years)[edit]

• Existential Question: Who Am I and What Can I Be?

The adolescent is newly concerned with how they appear to others. Superego identity is the accrued confidence that the outer sameness and continuity prepared in the future are matched by the sameness and continuity of one's meaning for oneself, as evidenced in the promise of a career. The ability to settle on a school or occupational identity is pleasant. In later stages of adolescence, the child develops a sense of sexual identity. As they make the transition from childhood to adulthood, adolescents ponder the roles they will play in the adult world. Initially, they are apt to experience some role confusion—mixed ideas and feelings about the specific ways in which they will fit into society—and may experiment with a variety of behaviors and activities (e.g. tinkering with cars, baby-sitting for neighbors, affiliating with certain political or religious groups). Eventually, Erikson proposed, most adolescents achieve a sense of identity regarding who they are and where their lives are headed.

The teenager must achieve identity in occupation, gender roles, politics, and, in some cultures, religion.

Erikson is credited with coining the term "identity crisis".[16]:29 Each stage that came before and that follows has its own 'crisis', but even more so now, for this marks the transition from childhood to adulthood. This passage is necessary because "Throughout infancy and childhood, a person forms many identifications. But the need for identity in youth is not met by these."[17] This turning point in human development seems to be the reconciliation between 'the person one has come to be' and 'the person society expects one to become'. This emerging sense of self will be established by 'forging' past experiences with anticipations of the future. In relation to the eight life stages as a whole, the fifth stage corresponds to the crossroads:

What is unique about the stage of Identity is that it is a special sort of synthesis of earlier stages and a special sort of anticipation of later ones. Youth has a certain unique quality in a person's life; it is a bridge between childhood and adulthood. Youth is a time of radical change—the great body changes accompanying puberty, the ability of the mind to search one's own intentions and the intentions of others, the suddenly sharpened awareness of the roles society has offered for later life.[16]"

Erikson's stages of psychosocial development - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

​

The idea of an organised and powerful organisation, whose goal is to save mankind from itself is fantastic. I just wish it was a reality.

.
The problem with Scientology's goals (A world without war, criminality & insanity) is that:

1) It is only words. Anyone can say/write any words, that doesn't give them any meaning or value.​

​

2). Since the birth of Dianetics/Scientology, the most warlike, criminal and insane parts of Scientology were in the exact places where the "tech" was most thoroughly and standardly applied. The very worst places in Scientology were the most upper-level and "ideal scenes" of Flag, the Apollo, Gold Base, Advanced Organizations, RTC, CMO, Watchdog Committee, IAS, CCHR, Ideal Org program and the elite "tech" division in every org worldwide where 98% of the fully trained practitioners of Scientology end up blowing and/or getting declared SP.​

​

3). The closer to "Source" (Hubbard and now Miscavige) one is, the worse one's personal life became. It is no different than measuring the toxic and fatal dosage of radiation one has by their proximity to ground zero where a nuclear explosion detonated.​

​

4). Hubbard/Miscavige were in a perpetual state of WAR against an endlessly expanding list of enemies, external and/or within Scientology. The goal of "a world without war" was betrayed as a hoax by simply examining the immediate work environment---cult leaders could not even eliminate war in a one block radius surrounding their desk, let alone the world.​

​

5). Hubbard/Miscavige (and their "loyal officers") run CRIMINAL organizations (plural). For starters, Scientology has been lying, threatening, suing, bankrupting, disconnecting, stalking, terrorizing and Fair Gaming anyone who interferes with their 70 year money-driven racket and fraud called "Clear" and "OT". The closer one is to the "world's most ethical people" atop the command channel of Scientology, the more crime-density exponentially multiplies. The COS itself could accurately be described as the "Crimewave Of Scientology". Hubbard and Miscavige are incorrigible life-long and hardcore criminals---so provably their technology did not even work on them and thus "A world without Criminality" was simply an Orwellian lie.​

​

6). The more auditing and training a Scientologist gets, the worse their mental health becomes. Their sanity deteriorates in direct proportion to their participation in the "Bridge To Total Freedom" where their reality and rationality ultimately is so overwhelmed with delusional impairment that they believe themselves to be fighting a 75 million year war against evil aliens from deep space that have invaded their bodies. That is INSANITY. Hubbard--who had more auditing hours than anyone who ever lived--was provably the most insane individual within Scientology and his last years on earth showcased that face with an enraged madman who was screaming at invisible aliens as well as an individual suffering from such advanced mental illness that they tried to commit.suicide.​

​

7) By any measure, Scientology's GOALS were not only impossible to achieve with Scientology "tech"--the more Scientologists used Scientology the worse things became. The provable results of applying Scientology "tech" is MORE WAR, MORE INSANITY & MORE CRIMINALITY.​

RECAP: The diabolical toxicity of cults cannot be resolved by reading or listening to their WORDS. It can, however, be rather easily derailed by simply looking at what they DO. To this end, it is necessary to first understand two concepts in human interaction, "BIG LIES" and "GASLIGHTING". To begin the journey of understanding what Scientology is actually doing, it is helpful to start out with viewing other painfully obvious examples of cults that engaged those two debilitating gimmicks.

Here is another messianic mid-century cult with an infallible leader. They also were super ("uber") humans determined to save the world with their "tech". They also had a "bridge" (see photo below) and also promoted "total freedom":

"ABEIT MACHT FREI"
"Work Sets You Free"

- - more info at this link - -



.​

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Wrong.
Criticizing Scientology is an essential part of the recovery process, which involves coming to terms with the profound trauma Scientology inflicts, and which we, as Scientologists, inflicted upon others.
Trauma that lasts for decades.
Trivialize it much, K-rum?
The ”#1 family-oriented entertainment in these here parts” is entirely different.

View attachment 3484

Thanks for that.

Karakorum has an awful lot to say about critics of Scientology. He/She is very unhappy about Scientology victims openly & honestly speaking their minds and whistleblowing in their own way. Matter of fact, the two most successful whistleblowing ex-Scientologists in the world for the past few years have been harshly criticized by that poster. He/She feels it is much better to criticize famously effective whistleblowers than it is to criticize the avaricious, sociopathic hoax that is Scientology.

Not only is that poster stumbling over the furniture to target the brilliantly effective whistleblowers Leah Remini/Mike Rinder, the poster has arrived at an Ex-Scientology website to warn us all that what Leah/Mike is doing on all those rave-reviewed interviews is actually harmful and counter-productive to stopping the cult's abusive crime wave. They're the real problem!

And the tech? That's not the problem. Nobody should criticize that either because only scientists doing scientific studies can tell us if the tech works. LOL.

Anyone care for another helping of gaslighting? The people exposing Scientology's wicked fraud and pathological abuse of innocent victims are the real problem. We should focus on THEM and stop them from going on Larry King and Joe Rogan and other hugely viewed broadcasts. Leah especially---she's not good and refuses to follow Karakorum's whistleblowing policies. LOL.

Yeah, I know---nobody is supposed to say aloud what is obvious. LOL. Karakorum has made it very clear that I am a liar and a sociopathic troll, so you should probably disconnect/block me like he/she did.

Churchill-----I'm evil, I tell ya!! I'm a liar but ya gotta trust me on this! For God's sake, do a clay demo of PTS and then disconnect from me to save yourself! LOL

.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

.

"Scientology is mankind's only hope.
Our goal is a world without war,
a world without criminality &
a world without insanity."
- LRH​

This sounds truly amazing! But how can we realistically achieve such a beautifully IDEAL world?

We should ask an expert! Since Ron is no longer here to advise us, let's ask the person who knew him best--his twin brother L. Don Hubbard (see avatar).

Don, can you please help us? If we want to help make Ron's dream a reality, what should we do exactly?

"In order to achieve Ron's goal of a world without
war, insanity & criminality, we must first
achieve a world without Scientology."
- LDH


.​

 

[ILove2Lurk]

He/She is . . .

He/She feels . . .

he/she did . . .

It's just tiring, man.

HH, you know I have a professional background in writing and editing. I put some of those
postings you're referring to into some "writing analysis software" I have. I used to use it to
detect plagiarism and identify authors -- sometimes anonymous -- I was working with.

My software analyzed the writing style and consistency and spit out "unmistakably he."

So you can just use "he" as a convention going forward. But it's up to you, as always.

Now don't get mad at me. It's what my software program said. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


PS: Has anyone seen Sophie recently? What happened?

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

-- I reposted my comment on another more pertinent thread --

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

ooops, double-posted (deleted)

 

[Dotey OT]

I have been super busy with life lately, and haven't had the time to do much lurking, but this thread caught my eye.

In the OP's original post:

"Most of Scientology is good and helpful."

Then why even do the thread? You already KNOW it's good and helpful. I won't even begin to look at a single layer of what is wrong with this odd combination of things, and the multiple layers and depths of illogical shtuff here.

And I said shtuff, portmanteau-jam of shite and stuff.

I am starting a very large gardening project here on the property, and I will need some fertilizer, can I use this thread?

 

[Veda]

• I was a part of Scientology many years ago. I was only there for a couple of years. I did learn many helpful and worthwhile things. But, I was also mismanaged, and ill-guided. It was this mistreatment that led to my departure.
• While I do still believe in reincarnation, and the spirit/thetan, I don’t believe in the approach of Scientology.
• I had a life changing experience 4 years after Scientology. I saw my mother as a spirit. Within an hour after my mother’s death, she visited me. This was no delusion. I had no information to tell me that she had died, and she had no illness to forecast her death. So, I know that we are more than our bodies. We live on. This event got me thinking of Scientology. It would be lovely to retain memories between lifetimes. But, how can anyone know that you’d really gain this ability through Scientology? Where’s the evidence? If anyone has any evidence, please let me know.
• I was drawn into Scientology when I was 20, in the year 2001. I was young impressionable, and clueless. But it did teach me a few things. From the tech, reading LRH and time in my local org: I developed the beginnings of self-awareness. This awareness, after Scientology, grew on its own with thought, self-exploration and time. Whilst in Scientology, the most important thing I learnt was ‘what is true, is what’s true for you’. But, at the same time, I was told to avoid all anti-Scientology press. And I was “handled” if I encountered any negative press.
• Over time I have learned to trust my feelings and instincts. If something feels wrong, it usually is wrong. If something feels not quite right, then I know I’ve got to dig deeper until I find the correct solution. When something feels right and true, it’s like the clouds part, and it’s a clear sunny day. I believe I have developed an internal e-meter. I can detect my own floating needle and a blowing of charge, lol. I will say this for Scientology, I had never experienced that ‘clear’ feeling before studying tech and processing.
• But, there are many ways that Scientology is mismanaged. They try to hide the truth. And they try to bully people into their way of thinking. They convince the world and themselves that their prior and current overts don’t exist. This all goes against the freedom that it tries to impart on people. It’s only when we have ALL the facts, when we can make up our own minds, that we can be truly ‘clear’. I believe I have now read enough accounts, far and wide, for and against, to be able to make up my own mind. I’m getting that ‘feeling’ that I know the answer. Most of Scientology is good and helpful. But, at some point in the distant past, it and many of its people deviated from its own tenets, which have led to a snowballing of bad decisions. This is why Scientology is not succeeding like it could. There are far too many overts that have been covered up or denied. Scientology would have more success if mistakes were admitted to, aired and addressed.
• Society is very flawed. Governments are flawed. People are flawed. There is no right, except for what is right for you. Other people’s, and other authorities’ opinions don’t mean a thing. It is our own personal truths that matter the most.
• I realised that LRH got something very right. We are all made from the same stuff. The dynamics and its rings of influence show one thing clearly, we are all connected. We all share, to greater and lesser degrees, each other’s virtues and maladies. LRH, his family, David Miscavige, everyone; is, has been, and will continue to be human. We make mistakes. We pay for ours, and other’s mistakes collectively. Every success raises us all by a fraction. Equally, every hurt diminishes us all by a fraction. Ugly acts cannot be hidden and refuted. To paraphrase LRH, they must be ‘as-ised’ to nullify their influence. I think the only way Scientology can survive is if it airs its dirty laundry and takes responsibility for its actions. That key word ‘responsibility’ has the most meaning. Again, paraphrasing LRH, it is only through taking responsibility for everything that we develop true power. Otherwise the good that Scientology intends, can only be overshadowed by its cancerous elements. Cancer created from trying to keep truths hidden. And, as we all know, when you try to contain a cancer, it only makes it grow and spread. To address a cancer, you must tackle it head on, not try to hide it, dress it up, or call it something else. Remember, LRH talked about the 5 ways to address a problem. It would seem that LRH and Miscavige have hidden from their truths, rather than facing them. While there is so much good that could be done by Scientology, it cannot live up to its full potential while it is being hypocritical to its own teachings. A guiding principle to individuals and groups, would be to admit your faults/transgressions so that you can move past them. Only then can we grow and do good in the world. Casting fallacious blame at others does no good. The truth will always come out. And when it comes out by external means, it is all the more damaging.
• The whole SP/PTS thing is over the top. I seriously think the ideas of Scientology management are a bit screwy. What with the whole criteria for the declaration of SPs and PTS. So many people in Scientology are flawed, misguided and actively misleading others. But, what I don’t understand is: how come the tech and processing hasn’t detected this. How come it hasn’t used ethics to solve the situation? The only answer I can come up with is: many people (Miscavige included) have overts, that they just aren’t willing to face. But, that also raises another question: how do these people continue to make case gain? Maybe they don’t, or maybe it’s just slower than it normally would be. Who knows?
• I’ve read that LRH died of several strokes. I think this is true. I think it’s possible that his investigations into the higher OT levels caused these strokes. Caused by too much charge, causing too much strain on the body. I think part of the problem was that he had too many overts that he couldn’t/wouldn’t as-is. One example would be the awful treatment of his family. If you consider an overt as a magnet, a lightning rod, a sticking point for charge. If you handle more and more charge as you go up the bridge, then overts would, concurrently, become more and more deadly. Just a theory. But it feels right somehow.

Hi Dygong,

Your views are very close to those held by many after they had separated themselves from the Organization.

 

[Karakorum]

Wrong.
Criticizing Scientology is an essential part of the recovery process, which involves coming to terms with the profound trauma Scientology inflicts, and which we, as Scientologists, inflicted upon others.
Trauma that lasts for decades.
Trivialize it much, K-rum?
The ”#1 family-oriented entertainment in these here parts” is entirely different.

View attachment 3484

I really don't get the point you are trying to make. Have you even read my post?

Humor is a valuable part of criticism. Doing so while being entertaining is really a staple of the forum. Which is why we have a humor section here if you haven't noticed.

Are you gonna say both me, Xenu Xenu Xenu and Karen are all trolls who trivialize scientology because we post humorous stuff?

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

I really don't get the point you are trying to make. Have you even read my post?

Humor is a valuable part of criticism. Doing so while being entertaining is really a staple of the forum. Which is why we have a humor section here if you haven't noticed.

Are you gonna say both me, Xenu Xenu Xenu and Karen are all trolls who trivialize scientology because we post humorous stuff?

"WE" have a humor section here? "WE" post humorous stuff? Who is "WE"?

I seriously doubt that Xenu Xenu Xenu and Karen would consider themselves to be part of your elite "we" clique. And I cannot imagine they would speak with such dripping condescension to such a wonderfully bright & funny long-time poster on ESMB as Churchill. Speak for yourself instead of hiding behind strawman "WE" fakery.

For years, I have seen Karen, Churchill and Xenu Xenu Xenu post countless hilarious things. I have never seen any of them having to lecture and scold other posters about how humorous they are. LOL

Maybe your jokes are from advanced levels above my awareness--- but I have never seen you get within a light year of funny.

.