Sane & honest version of Scientology?

[Caroline]

Caroline my apologies. I didn’t explain properly.

When I first joined the kult I was 22. Looking for something better than sex and drugs and rocknroll. I had the usual OCA and “ruin” found but there was stuff that I didn’t tell the reg. that was the reason I wanted to explore what $cientology might be able to do for me. I wanted to better myself and the world.

And that was the main thing that I had in common with the many other exes that I have spoken to about joining the kult. Aged between 18 and 25, wanting a better self and a better world. That I believe was the target demographic of Hubbard.

Once one is hooked and landed, then the kult goes totalitarian by degrees. Constantly reading KSW etc., constantly being sent to Ethics, getting audited and trained - the whole mind-bending mess we went through.

But it starts with the therapeutic effects that somehow alleviate some of life’s problems. Once that has happened, you’ve nibbled that bait and your next step is getting the hook firmly stuck and you get reeled in. Then the slow boil until you’re cooked.

Hey thanks for unpacking your thought a bunch more. The "stuff you didn't tell the reg," even the transpersonal stuff like making the world better, I totally get. It was the zeitgeist of the time for me at least, in 1975, age 19. You were 22. Gerry was 22 when he joined. I think Hubbard targeted every demographic. But the age demographic on which all the targeting worked most effectively I think, was the young adult. I think it's obvious that other cults too, have their greatest success, age-demographically, with youths/young adults. The psycho-demographic, which landed people, no matter what age, in the/a cult is another topic.

To make a bit of a point, the Scientology cult really does not go totalitarian by degrees. It has been totalitarian in nature all along. By degrees, and by using personal and transpersonal buttons, it gets people to accept its totalitarian nature and worldview. And perhaps by degrees we realize its totalitarianism. I don't think the realization of totalitarianism is what triggers people's escapes. I think it's commonly the more personal experiences of fraud, lies, lockups, declares, disconnection, terror. Then, if one confronts and honestly studies what one has left, as you have, it might be realized that it is a totalitarian cult. And not just totalitarian, but destructive and dangerous.

 

[programmer_guy]

If Scientology were tremendously corrected to be sane, honest, and truly scientific then it would be so different that it would no longer be Scientology.

(A very few items might be absorbed into neuroscience with different basis of explanation.)

 

[Veda]

Begin quote from the August 1938 Excalibur letter:

Living is a pretty grim joke, but a joke just the same. The entire function of man is to survive. Not for what, but just to survive... I turned the thing up, so it's up to me to survive in a big way.

Personal immortality is only to be gained through the printed word, barred note, or painted canvass or hard granite [and convincing people that "LRH = Survival!"]. Foolishly perhaps, but determined nonetheless, I have high hopes of smashing my name in to history so violently that it will take a legendary form... That goal is the real goal as far as I am concerned...

It's a pretty big job. In a hundred years Roosevelt will have been forgotten - which gives some idea of the magnitude of my attempt...

_______________End quote______________








​

 

[ILove2Lurk]

Living is a pretty grim joke, but a joke just the same.

“One must have one's delusions to live. If you look at life too honestly and clearly, ​

life becomes unbearable because it's a pretty grim enterprise, you will admit.” ​

Woody Allen​

If you're offended by me invoking Woody Allen, sorry, and just skip the video and post.
Please don't comment and derail.

Woody brings up a good point in this 2-min interview that I've reflected on often when
thinking about my previous lifelong connection to Scientology.

If I'm honest, during much of my life I lived in a delusional world and "construct"
developed by Hubbard. Guaranteed immortality, exciting space opera in this solar
system, being among the first to learn all the ultimate secrets of the universe, and
on and on. It was a pretend world, a fantastical delusion, that I bought entirely and
lived within, as many of us did. It insulated me from the much of the unbearableness,
grimness, or uncertainties of life, like Woody talks about.

So Scientology did offer a set of delusions and fantasies I could pretend about that
at the time that made life seem more fun, positive, and bearable, if you will. Others
find the same escape from pretending about heaven and hell, so the atheist would
say, and others yet from Islam and the promised 72 virgins. A list of available delusions
and delusional worlds to accept and live inside of would actually be pretty long.

I think a lot of people got in Scientology for that same insulating and comforting
delusion effect. Something to pretend about to make life better. Maybe that's just
a common human flaw.

Let's take a look at the heyday of Scientology's most remarkable expansion . . . the 70's.
There was Vietnam, the military draft, Watergate, 2500 Weathermen bombings in
just 18 months, the drug culture, free love, gas lines, race riots, and all kinds of other
turmoil. Of course, many young people at the time were trying to find ways to escape
the "grim reality" of the times. Through delusion, if need be. Hubbard showed up with
an option, albeit a pretend one. It wasn't that the tech worked, so much as "right place,
right time" for something like that.

When I turn on the TV as see something like what's on the news nowadays and where
the culture in general has sunk to, I momentarily yearn for the naivete and silliness
of those delusional Scientology years.

That said, I'm not a grim person and live a wonderful life now. I just keep the TV off
much of the time, don't do Facebook or Twitter, no smart phone, and limited Internet
connectivity with the current culture.

I've found other things to pretend about and manage to make it all fine for now.

 

[freethinker]

Three reasons I can think of (going from my own experience of the East Grinstead AAC here);

Firstly, once people are out of the CofS's penumbra they start questioning things more and more and everything's up for grabs (I once had an auditor who questioned the notion of case, for example). Auditors start looking more critically at what does and doesn't work in standard tech and making innovations that they think might work better.

Secondly, because the Church sues anyone who breaches their "copyrights" there is a strong incentive for people auditing outside the CofS to call the subject something other than Scientology and to also change the names of the terms used. "Has there been an ARC break?" becomes "Has there been an upset?", for example.

Thirdly, next to no training goes on. The CofS produced auditors because it was cheaper to take courses than it was to pay for blocks of auditing, so people would train as an alternative to receiving auditing and every org had a course supervisor who could at least say, "What do your materials state?". In the freezone, not so much of this happens because people want auditing more than they want training and can afford to pay for it.

Hubbard had a particular name for those who only wanted auditing but didn't want to train. I forget what it was, but it denigrated PC's to a similar status to freeloaders except they paid.

Those that still wanted auditing but had little money were "volunteer PC's" they would volunteer to be audited by intern or student auditors.

 

[freethinker]

Yes, exactly.

I ran into this phenomena quite recently when I visited a zoo and got in very good telepathic 2-way-com with an uptone chimpanzee that had excellent TR-O. From that I deduced that this was an able being that I could help to become more able.

So, using theta com, I ran them on some processes to move them from Homo Simians up to Homo Sapiens. Later I can additionally move them further up the line from Homo Sapiens to Homo Novis. I routinely do this, and so on and so forth, on this planet.

In any case the results of that session were less than I had postulated. The chimp went totally out of session while I was repetitively running them on the command: "BE 3 FEET IN BACK OF YOUR IMPEDIMENT". They started screeching and running around their enclosure, so I just kept using tone 40 commands to get back in session. . Finally they calmed down and approached the viewing window, so I TR-4'd the command again. Then they threw poop at me.

Naturally, I ended off the session and wrote up a KR.

Obviously we were dealing with an NCG being here, so that explains why the tech didn't work. It doesn't work on NCGs because they are stuck in an incident down the time track. It only works on able beings who are not stuck on the track, which is why they are able enough to audit OT III thru OT VIII . All of us, on the other hand, are able beings , even though we have been stuck on the track in that Xenu thing which happened 75 million years ago.

FYI: You should all know that NCG is the same as SP---so please be sure to check your social network lines and un-friend Jerry The Chimp.

.

"Stuck in an incident", really means you have a stable datum that has worked and someone comes along and tries to tell you your stable datum is whoo but their whoo is The stable datum. It can produce poop throwing tantrums, or they just walk away, or, they have no workable stable datums and open mindedly accept yours and give you cash, or poop, depending on the medium of exchange, poop for poop is satisfaction and accord.

 

[cleared cannibal]

“One must have one's delusions to live. If you look at life too honestly and clearly, ​

life becomes unbearable because it's a pretty grim enterprise, you will admit.” ​

Woody Allen​

If you're offended by me invoking Woody Allen, sorry, and just skip the video and post.
Please don't comment and derail.

Woody brings up a good point in this 2-min interview that I've reflected on often when
thinking about my previous lifelong connection to Scientology.

If I'm honest, during much of my life I lived in a delusional world and "construct"
developed by Hubbard. Guaranteed immortality, exciting space opera in this solar
system, being among the first to learn all the ultimate secrets of the universe, and
on and on. It was a pretend world, a fantastical delusion, that I bought entirely and
lived within, as many of us did. It insulated me from the much of the unbearableness,
grimness, or uncertainties of life, like Woody talks about.

So Scientology did offer a set of delusions and fantasies I could pretend about that
at the time that made life seem more fun, positive, and bearable, if you will. Others
find the same escape from pretending about heaven and hell, so the atheist would
say, and others yet from Islam and the promised 72 virgins. A list of available delusions
and delusional worlds to accept and live inside of would actually be pretty long.

I think a lot of people got in Scientology for that same insulating and comforting
delusion effect. Something to pretend about to make life better. Maybe that's just
a common human flaw.

Let's take a look at the heyday of Scientology's most remarkable expansion . . . the 70's.
There was Vietnam, the military draft, Watergate, 2500 Weathermen bombings in
just 18 months, the drug culture, free love, gas lines, race riots, and all kinds of other
turmoil. Of course, many young people at the time were trying to find ways to escape
the "grim reality" of the times. Through delusion, if need be. Hubbard showed up with
an option, albeit a pretend one. It wasn't that the tech worked, so much as "right place,
right time" for something like that.

When I turn on the TV as see something like what's on the news nowadays and where
the culture in general has sunk to, I momentarily yearn for the naivete and silliness
of those delusional Scientology years.

That said, I'm not a grim person and live a wonderful life now. I just keep the TV off
much of the time, don't do Facebook or Twitter, no smart phone, and limited Internet
connectivity with the current culture.

I've found other things to pretend about and manage to make it all fine for now.

I see people living in a fantasy world every day. One thing I think Scn does not do is increase ones confront. Some naturally have it and others naturally don't and are easy marks for all kind of schemes . If one really looks at what processing does in an honest way the lower bridge is fairly good at helping one's discovery of self. The higher one goes the more fantasy one has to accept. This may be at different places for different people but it was Grade IV for me. I think most would discard Scn fairly early if they didn't do extensive training and reading of Scn materials. They only reinforce the fantasy and makes determining reality more difficult.

People want to believe there is something more and maybe there is but I don't think groups are the way to discover it. The meditating isolated monk MAY be a way. Scn is only the latest in a long line of these fantasies. I am not so sure religion in general may not fit into this. This is not to say there is not truth in most if not all religions but it is garbled beyond recognition. When one reads scripture of anything you are not absorbing truth necessarily but someone elses interpretation of truth. This is if they are honest. With Scn we may just an out an out scam with its purpose to enslave people and take all their resources. I guess you would have to ask Hubbard what his intentions were.

 

[Zertel]

Sitting on your ass getting audited was easy, interesting and fun. Who wanted to climb into a cave and meditate for years although some people in the past have done so and climbed out of the cave enlightened!

 

[programmer_guy]

When Hubbard went into hiding in that Blue Bird motor home why wasn't he C/Sed for O/Ws?
(I am being sarcastic about this item. )

 

[Mockingbird]

I just stumbled across this thread. I think that the question and answers are exactly what help ex Scientologists to untangle themselves from the effects of Scientology by thinking through their beliefs and working out how to write about them for others.

I don't think any version of Scientology that is beneficial or honest or sane is possible based on my own experience in Scientology and education on what Scientology is from attempting to recover from Scientology.

What could you keep ? Not any type of auditing or indoctrination I saw in Scientology, not the ethics tech, not any of it that I saw.

 

[Dotey OT]

I just stumbled across this thread. I think that the question and answers are exactly what help ex Scientologists to untangle themselves from the effects of Scientology by thinking through their beliefs and working out how to write about them for others.

I don't think any version of Scientology that is beneficial or honest or sane is possible based on my own experience in Scientology and education on what Scientology is from attempting to recover from Scientology.

What could you keep ? Not any type of auditing or indoctrination I saw in Scientology, not the ethics tech, not any of it that I saw.

Great to see you back!!

I liked TRs until the part about hypnotism in the lower TRs. Someone said to do TR4 only. Oh well.

I like word clearing until I realized I'm full of stupid definitions from the cult. Oh well.

Ethics was designed to keep people in a bubble, and destroy those that didn't agree. Oh well.

Lower grades, lower grades everyone shouts, until you look at repetitive processing. Oh well.

OT levels? Bwa ha ha ha!!! Oh well ha ha haha!

Data Series. Maybe some parts. I don't know, certainly not all of it.

Looks like it's not worth it really.

 

[guanoloco]

I think we should keep the Thursday before 2 and the 3 basket comm system.

 

[Mockingbird]

I think we should keep the Thursday before 2 and the 3 basket comm system.

Those are really silly upon looking back on them to me.

 

[Xenu Xenu Xenu]

I think ''Musters'' are a good thing that Scientology should keep.

Oh wait, no musters are just another trap to get people to convince themselves that Scientology works. It also reinforces the whole cult mindset. It's the little things such as musters that add up to a lot of deception and mind control. You could even argue that there is no huge reason that people get sucked in. It's all about a whole lot of small things that add accumulate into a large and powerful trap. You could argue that.

The only way Scientology can be sane and honest is if it were to tell its members that it is a cult that is meant to rip you off, to control you, and to use you.

 

[La La Lou Lou]

I found that being really listened to was wonderful, and it did happen a few times from a few good auditors, very few, because mostly they were concentrating on staying awake or remembering the next rote phrase to say, or writing down what the meter was doing, or wondering if it was an F/N or a rockslam etc. On the other hand I've probably been listened to more by strangers on buses trains etc.

Now counselling, especially person centred counselling really was good and I felt completely understood in a way that auditing never did.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Hubbard had a particular name for those who only wanted auditing but didn't want to train. I forget what it was, but it denigrated PC's to a similar status to freeloaders except they paid.

Was it dilettante (I think the pantywaist bit was optional)?

There were so many denigrating names and labels in the cult that I expect there was more than one for someone who didn't want to train.

Like most scientologists, while in the cult I don't think I ever said anything out loud without first carefully running it through my inbuilt 'fear of being labelled something degrading' detector. Being back in the normal world where people are rarely inclined to try and be amateur psychologists was a huge relief.

 

[freethinker]

Was it dilettante (I think the pantywaist bit was optional)?

There were so many denigrating names and labels in the cult that I expect there was more than one for someone who didn't want to train.

Like most scientologists, while in the cult I don't think I ever said anything out loud without first carefully running it through my inbuilt 'fear of being labelled something degrading' detector. Being back in the normal world where people are rarely inclined to try and be amateur psychologists was a huge relief.

It might have been professional PC. It had something to do with always needing help.

 

[marra]

It might have been professional PC. It had something to do with always needing help.

He used the term Cleared Cannibal to persuade people to train as well as just going Clear.

 

[Oat Tea Ate]

15 years ago, as an experiment, I got (over the phone) R3X auditing from Robert D, at $30 an hour. It was adventurous, both as to method and reach (very whole track, probably mostly fantasy). It got deeper into stuff than regular Scn/Dn and just bypassed the whole idea of BTs/Clusters. It had SIZZLE! After about 50/60 hours I decided this did release charge but wasn't reaching the overstated EP and didn't do any more.

Robert told me he had lots of non-Scn clients referred to him. They knew nothing of the theory/background of the procedure. They got a session or two, resolved whatever they were worried about, were happy with the result, and he never heard from them again. They didn't have their eyes on OT powers, or saving the universe, just wanted to get over their lost girlfriend or whatever.

Nowadays I'm not trying to develop "OT powers." I find this amusing, because:
(1) I believe it's possible to perceive the subtle-energy aspects of a person's extended anatomy and the world around us, and
(2) Two of my PaulsRobot3 modules are directly aimed at drilling and increasing such perceptions
PaulsRobot3 RAW4: Home and PaulsRobot3 SpotAnAngel: Home

I've had these available online free of charge for maybe 10 years. I can't remember one person who's even asked me about them, let alone tried them out and written about it. I guess everyone thinks I'm nuts! Oh well. After several hours of trying out both of these modules I realised this was a long-haul job, no instant gratification, and didn't do much more.

My point is people today generally aren't interested much in things beyond their everyday life.

I realized long before Scientology, that we had OT powerz and it was only until I did Scientology, that those creative powerz got suppressed with confusion.
I say, dream big, write down your dreams, keep your eye on what you want and don't waiver. There are some great lectures on this out there on the internet that are free.
You have always had OT powerz and Scientology cripples those powers.
It take away your money and money is freedom if used correctly.
It implants control mechanisms and thought stopping devices.
It gets you to believe and not question anything Scientology tells you.

 

[PirateAndBum]

It might have been professional PC. It had something to do with always needing help.

theety wheety (sp) I believe it was