Revisiting OTVIII . . . what, again??!! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[TheSneakster]

I knew a lovely lady who was slung overboard on the class VIII course (ordered by hubbard) and she broke her arm as she hit the water awkwardly.

That creep was the very definition of a sadist.

So Ron Hubbard was a sadist for ordering such things, but the people who actually carried them out - instead of loudly refusing - have been exonerated by the critic community, apparently. Do you even know the names of the Apollo MAA and thug deputies to broke that woman's arm ?

 

[I told you I was trouble]

So Ron Hubbard was a sadist for ordering such things, but the people who actually carried them out - instead of loudly refusing - have been exonerated by the critic community, apparently. Do you even know the names of the Apollo MAA and thug deputies to broke that woman's arm ?

No, I don't and I wasn't there when it happened either ... any other pointless and aggressive questions?

For the record the lady who was slung overboard told the story many times with a great big smile (as if it was almost a badge of honour) and is still alive and still very much a scientologist.

 

[Riddick]

So Ron Hubbard was a sadist for ordering such things, but the people who actually carried them out - instead of loudly refusing - have been exonerated by the critic community, apparently. Do you even know the names of the Apollo MAA and thug deputies to broke that woman's arm ?

I don't think it quite works that way. People have left scientology to expose the weirdness, and now they are part of the critic community?

Of course they are, they are now being a critical thinker, a critic, if you will. Many who have left and witnessed things did not know at the time, but once they left they now wish to expose it all. So yah they are part of the critic community. LOL

What is a critic? To ask yourself.

 

[Veda]

.Link to L. Ron Hubbard's abuses and violence thread. See Alan Walters' account at post #6.

"If you tried to do something about it, it would have made it worse. Hubbard said that maritime law prevailed. He said that under maritime law, he had total power over everyone om the vessel." David Mayo.

Added to this is that Hubbard was the cult leader using a collection of deceptive and "brainwashing" methods on his trusting followers.

 

[ILove2Lurk]

Why did Marty and the other members of The Cabal sit on this information and not go public then? Seems like this was a pretty important revelation. What kind of person knows the truth, yet reges for more money for "vapor-ware OT levels?" Should tell you all you need to know about the black hearts of Marty and some others.

I contend this pattern of deceit and fraud was a known thing among many on the "upper floors" for decades. Hence, The Cabal.

Revisiting the silence around the topic of OT 9&10

"It's VERY common knowledge at the international headquarters that there's​

no OT levels above OT8. That's just, it's just common knowledge at the international​

headquarters that Hubbard was supposed to write them and he didn't."​

Marc Headley​

Feb 1, 2024​

Well, I told you so years ago in this post and its thread. Now do you believe?

The Cabal is real and larger than I thought. Many people in the SO are directly culpable
for hiding the fraud for decades. They walk around the halls for years and say nothing.
All this was known since about 1988 by the executives and tech people at the top. All
of them knew.

That's 36 years of silence.

More in time-stamped video below

​

 

[vegan3]

How old is Ray Mithoff now?

He has got to be well into his 70's.....

this says 72. may or may not be correct.

Search Results for Ray M

www.peoplefinders.com

edit oh my god rofl:

Ray Mithoff Forgot What Should Be on OT 9 & 10

https://www.freedommag.org/legacy-sites/default/files/declaration08.pdf

"Through a combination of my close relationship with Mr. Hubbard and working under his personal direction, the extensive study I have done over the years of the Scientology Scriptures, as well as my having read thousands of pages of directives, notes and dispatches from Mr. Hubbard, I came to know with a complete certainty what Mr. Hubbard’s goals and long-range plans and wishes were with regard to all aspects of the Scientology religion. I also experienced firsthand the warmth and care Mr. Hubbard had for people everywhere and his unceasing efforts to help individuals.

7. …I came to know L. Ron Hubbard intimately.

8. I have known, been close friends with and worked under the leadership of Mr. David Miscavige since 1981. His level of understanding, compassion and care for humanity is like no one I have ever known save for Mr. Hubbard.

20. With regard to…Mike Rinder…I was working directly under L. Ron Hubbard during his research into the root cause of psychosis—evil purposes. This is the factor behind the chronic liar, the home-wrecker, the person who tries to cripple an organization. Near the beginning of that research, the one example Mr. Hubbard gave of someone with serious evil purposes was Mike Rinder…

I declare under penalties and pains of perjury that the foregoing is true and correct. Executed this 28th day of July 2009."

 

[vegan3]

I took LSD, told the recruiter, no problem they said, I should never have been in the SO and should have had a fitness board during my decade career and that would have offloaded me. If a senior exec had taken LSD then whoever put him on that post should have been held responsible, even if it was Ron, who of course was apparently pickled in the stuff.

they seemed to be random with everything. i posted somewhere the "joining the sea org" rules that i had wondered about for years. they wouldn't take me in 1971 due to that policy. they showed it to me then and i thought they were right. when i saw it the other day, they actually were wrong. i had not been "incarcerated by shrinks" or however it was put. but drugs of some sort were definitely taboo even in 1971.

 

[Reyne Mayer]

Many people in the SO are directly culpable
for hiding the fraud for decades. They walk around the halls for years and say nothing.
All this was known since about 1988 by the executives and tech people at the top. All
of them knew.

not to discount cynicism and malice, but i think that there is probably a significant element of true belief at work. things like this remind me of what catholic clergy call 'miracles of faith', parishioners believing in phenomenon like weeping statues and healing of cripples at shrines, that priests and those above them know probably aren't true but justify as helping those in the flock who find such things comforting or even uplifting, and reinforcing their faith in the truth of the existence of an invisible god who the church hierarchy does more or less believe in.

and remember, those who believe LRH is going to come back -- and some apparently do, including at least early on DM, and supposedly later on if not even now Shelly -- must expect that will be the solution to problems, if only they do whatever it takes to hold things together, including telling 'acceptable truths' just as the old man directed....

do you tell very young kids not to believe in Santa Claus?

(and yes, those in the upper levels of the SO should just have done the right thing and tell the truth -- which it seems to me might be expected given scn's stated premises such as communication being the universal solvent, and it being far superior to traditional religion)

 

[I M Dex]

this says 72. may or may not be correct.

Search Results for Ray M

www.peoplefinders.com

20. With regard to…Mike Rinder…I was working directly under L. Ron Hubbard during his research into the root cause of psychosis—evil purposes. This is the factor behind the chronic liar, the home-wrecker, the person who tries to cripple an organization. Near the beginning of that research, the one example Mr. Hubbard gave of someone with serious evil purposes was Mike Rinder…
I declare under penalties and pains of perjury that the foregoing is true and correct. Executed this 28th day of July 2009."

As if any court would give any weight to how Hubbard supposedly characterized someone! Wow. Doesn't get more clueless than that.

 

[Lee #28]

not to discount cynicism and malice, but i think that there is probably a significant element of true belief at work. things like this remind me of what catholic clergy call 'miracles of faith', parishioners believing in phenomenon like weeping statues and healing of cripples at shrines, that priests and those above them know probably aren't true but justify as helping those in the flock who find such things comforting or even uplifting, and reinforcing their faith in the truth of the existence of an invisible god who the church hierarchy does more or less believe in.

and remember, those who believe LRH is going to come back -- and some apparently do, including at least early on DM, and supposedly later on if not even now Shelly -- must expect that will be the solution to problems, if only they do whatever it takes to hold things together, including telling 'acceptable truths' just as the old man directed....

do you tell very young kids not to believe in Santa Claus?

(and yes, those in the upper levels of the SO should just have done the right thing and tell the truth -- which it seems to me might be expected given scn's stated premises such as communication being the universal solvent, and it being far superior to traditional religion)

A very nice and humane post.....

But now this is getting into the realm of more and more Religiosity.....whether that be like Christianity, Hinduism or Islam.....or any other religion.

Dianetics and Scientology did not start out as a "religion."

Scientology then veering into the lane of religion was it's first bamboozle....or falsification....its first hood winking.....

As you wrote....keeping the faith... But the trouble with that is that was one of the first selling points of Scientology and still is...
There is no "faith" in Scientology....

The real "faith" in Scientology is the Registrar telling you that the next Level "will handle that..." as one pulls out their Credit Card...

Not to say that I didn't have some wonderful things change in Scientology, for myself.....that is not the point....

The Scientology shift from "science" to "religion" whether valid or not.....makes a lot of sense monetarily....

Basically....the Cult could keep a lot more money for itself as a Religion....rather than as a science.

Anyway Scientology "as a science" would never in a million years have been accepted in the the realm of Academic "science" as it exists...

Lots to say on this....but will leave it at that.

Yes....I think there is a Cabal behind the facade of Scientology.....but "within " Scientology and other practices....but that is another topic...

 

[Lee #28]

Little story about one of my first "hesitations": about Scientology....

Back in 1972, I was a brand new in. Getting my Grades audited at FCDC. ( had already done the Comm Course...)

Bill and Jeannie Franks were running the ORG. Some other old timers were there also....Gordon Bell I thing....and others.

All Original OT7s.... The time before New OT4 and New OT5 came out... Exypanded Dianetics was still offered....and a required Bridge Action.

Anyway....one day Jeannie Franks was super excited and running around (she was always super uptone...) and she blurted out: "I'm re-doing my Grades!!!! "

I thought to myself....what? She was an OT7....studied under Ron...probably on the Apollo....and she was re-doing her Grades??

It didn't make any sense to me...

 

[Lee #28]

As far as OT 9 OT 10 and the rest of the ACTUAL OT LEVELS....

(remember OT 1 thru OT 8 are the PRE-OT Levels...)

If OT 8 is knowing who you are not.....then it would seem obvious to me that OT 9 would be the beginnings of finding out who you are....

This could be as simple as a "contribute to the motion auditing session".....and the Cognition would be I am moving that paper clip....or I am doing it...

Of course....if one realizes that one is a "thetan" moving it and not some via of nerves and arms and one's physical body....and one then pops out of there body....I guess there could be some fireworks....

I guess WHAT one pops out AS....is part the problem.

I recall when I was Auditing on the BC....I was taking my PC to the Examiner and she was so blown out...she could hardly keep her body standing... So I steadied her with my arms... I looked at my right arm and saw a solid white tubular like arm.... no elbow no hand....just a solid white rod....

Hubbard said in one of his taped lectures...on the BC I think that the reason "they" kept us all trapped and implanted is because we were so powerful we could "burn down mountains..."

Personally, I think Scientology Auditing has damaged us. I think Scientology and the current lack of new Levels to do is that they have found themselves in a position that they know they cannot "fix us" with what they or Hubbard laid out.

In my thoughts there must be thousands of situations "spiritually" that one must be in.....that one could call anthropomorphic to take a simple look at it...

I think Hubbard joked about this....getting out as a Griffin or some such...

Or of course....if one needs an anthropomorphic type shape at all....? If that is the right word for a Human Type shape....

Anyway, will leave it at that...

 

[Reyne Mayer]

The Scientology shift from "science" to "religion" whether valid or not.....makes a lot of sense monetarily....

i think it also makes sense organizationally. traditional religions have evolved the way they have, because what they do works to recruit followers, and keep them believing and loyal. ultimately when there is no actual 'science' or anything else delivering something new and different and powerful, the way to keep things going is to resort to what works regarding belief in the supernatural, so LRH's religion became more and more like the conventional ones he liked to deride.

 

[Lee #28]

i think it also makes sense organizationally. Snipped.

Organizationally means......BIGGER....to me.

More Administrative personnel.... More ancillary groups... More Layers upon layers.... More Bureaucracy... More Fat....

Just like in Gulliver's Travels.....one has to get a "Flapper" to bong the ears of the Head Honcho to get his attentions to listen to you...

Who today could actually get to David Miscavige and say something. I would think very few.....perhaps only a handful of people.

 

[I M Dex]

Little story about one of my first "hesitations": about Scientology....

Back in 1972, I was a brand new in. Getting my Grades audited at FCDC. ( had already done the Comm Course...)

Bill and Jeannie Franks were running the ORG. Some other old timers were there also....Gordon Bell I thing....and others.

All Original OT7s.... The time before New OT4 and New OT5 came out... Exypanded Dianetics was still offered....and a required Bridge Action.

Anyway....one day Jeannie Franks was super excited and running around (she was always super uptone...) and she blurted out: "I'm re-doing my Grades!!!! "

I thought to myself....what? She was an OT7....studied under Ron...probably on the Apollo....and she was re-doing her Grades??

It didn't make any sense to me...

I can de-mystify that one for you. This was before L's, False Purpose Rundown, Key to Life, Survival Rundown, Super Duper Pooper Power and any and all other ancillary "bridge" income streams, and the cardinal rule of Scientology being to always have something else to use to extract money from everybody, so all that was left to sell as the solution to why everybody never actually arrived at the promised lofty states of being was more of the same.
It reminds me of the NY org C/S I had to deal with in the 1980's who called people "missed cases" and "flubby auditors" behind their backs. (You see, "the tech" was 100% workable, it was just that nobody worked it right).

 

[vegan3]

Back in 1972.

Anyway....one day Jeannie Franks was super excited and running around (she was always super uptone...) and she blurted out: "I'm re-doing my Grades!!!! "

I thought to myself....what? She was an OT7....studied under Ron...probably on the Apollo....and she was re-doing her Grades??

It didn't make any sense to me...

Because they had “quickie grades” then. Later they blamed all problems on that. They weren’t done on all flows. Not sure what else was the difference.

I knew an impotent OT. He blamed quickie grades for not fixing him.

 

[Lee #28]

Because they had “quickie grades” then. Later they blamed all problems on that. They weren’t done on all flows. Not sure what else was the difference.

I knew an impotent OT. He blamed quickie grades for not fixing him.

True....I forgot about quickie grades and the ones not done on all flows...

 

[I M Dex]

Actually, being able to have a quickie is better than being impotent. He must have had an MU.

 

[Reyne Mayer]

Because they had “quickie grades” then.

was that during the period of "quickie clears" -- "natural clears" and that sort of thing?

i get the impression that LRH was trying to increase the income of the orgs, when they were struggling in the wake of the end of the youth counterculture movement.

 

[vegan3]

was that during the period of "quickie clears" -- "natural clears" and that sort of thing?

i get the impression that LRH was trying to increase the income of the orgs, when they were struggling in the wake of the end of the youth counterculture movement.

i don't know what a "natural clear" is so i would say no. i haven't heard that term so my only guess is that it was after my era. i hadn't done the grades, only learned how to audit them. when i learned, you had to do the processes i think it was four flows. the newsletters mentioned it a bit back then. me to you, you to me, me to others, others to others or some such thing. there is a definition out there of what the flows are about. so the quickie ones meant all the flows weren't run. theoretically, if all flows weren't run, then you weren't "flat" on the subject, you still had the "charge". but since he was a complete raving loon, nothing really makes sense anyway! nor does it generally work.