Purif instructions wanted

[Bill]

<snip>
Sorry to disappoint you.

Helena (listening to Church Of The Poison Mind by Culture Club)

What a strange comment. Do you think anyone here wants you to be harmed? I certainly hope you remain healthy.

However, I do think you will be disappointed if you expect an unworkable "detox" to result in any kind of detoxification. But the sauna should be good for you.

 

[vegan3]

we just thought it won't do what she thinks it does. and it could indeed be harmful.

 

[Ed8]

Theoretically speaking the purif is contradictory to church (Hubbard's) scientology. If a thetan, a volitional static impinging on the physical universe via energy bodies, is so powerful, why in the hell would a physical body's condition bother it? My only answer personally speaking is that church scientology auditing must be processing the body, not the thetan. Go into an org and say that to them, ah ha ha! ;-)

 

[vegan3]

i would say a being is energy. but static, i don't know. but otherwise yes, the body he is saying impinges on the being. he implies body thetans impinge on the being. if there is even a THING called "body thetan" which i don't believe at all. so yeah, he contradicts himself all day long. i used to love astrology. but that also goes with the idea that astral bodies in the MEST universe impinge on a being. but we also know his idea of science what a load of bull he made up daily. fortunately i was already out when the purif came along. why people put up with his insanity i don't know. and the later versions of the e-meter seem very defective from the comments i've read. all kinds of rock slamming over evil purposes and wth??! (bought mine around 1973.)

 

[Ed8]

i would say a being is energy. but static, i don't know. but otherwise yes, the body he is saying impinges on the being. he implies body thetans impinge on the being. if there is even a THING called "body thetan" which i don't believe at all. so yeah, he contradicts himself all day long. i used to love astrology. but that also goes with the idea that astral bodies in the MEST universe impinge on a being. but we also know his idea of science what a load of bull he made up daily. fortunately i was already out when the purif came along. why people put up with his insanity i don't know. and the later versions of the e-meter seem very defective from the comments i've read. all kinds of rock slamming over evil purposes and wth??! (bought mine around 1973.)

A static impinging strongly onto an energy field raises the frequency of that field. I say this from personal experience.
Hubby's whole theory of body thetans is flawed, and is misuse of the word thetan. Yes indeed he contradicted himself. Entities sit in peoples' energy fields because the field provides the entities with energy to continue existing, without which they would slowly evaporate. These are NOT thetans.
I still use astrology. It tracks the 6th dynamic forces in and impinging on this solar system.
I still have a Mark 5.
I walked in 1978, shaking my head at the insanity.
Good talking with you, vegan3.
Ed

 

[vegan3]

You lose me at “static” so the rest is word salad. And you seem to still be an indie and still drinking the koolaid.

yeah mark v must be what i had. The wood box.

 

[Helena Handbasket]

What a strange comment. Do you think anyone here wants you to be harmed? I certainly hope you remain healthy.

However, I do think you will be disappointed if you expect an unworkable "detox" to result in any kind of detoxification. But the sauna should be good for you.

Many people on this forum have decided that I'm following a useless course of action, and are just waiting for me to fall on my face and admit defeat. They are the ones who will be disappointed with my little successes.

However, I'm not as young as I used to be, and I've had a few "complications". More details when I get to my next weekly progress report.

Helena

 

[Type4_PTS]

Many people on this forum have decided that I'm following a useless course of action, and are just waiting for me to fall on my face and admit defeat. They are the ones who will be disappointed with my little successes.

However, I'm not as young as I used to be, and I've had a few "complications". More details when I get to my next weekly progress report.

I for one am not hoping you'll fall on your face and admit defeat. I doubt that anyone here is.

Nor do I believe the Purif is a useless course of action. On the contrary, I believe the sauna has some incredible benefits.

My primary concern is the levels of vitamin D that one has to take. It IS dangerous for some people. I do personally know someone who was hurt by it. And the research on the subject, some of which I linked to earlier in the thread, is clear on that.

There are some great doctors who have developed some detox protocols and they are based upon scientific research. The Purif is not. But even if it was it couldn't be tweaked when new research was published in the decades since its development because Hubbard departed for Target Two.

 

[Reyne Mayer]

However, I'm not as young as I used to be, and I've had a few "complications".

i think that points to another problem -- it seems to me like practically everything in Hubbard's system was intended to take advantage of younger people whose bodies and psyches (and lives) were strong and resilient, and likely with withstand a fair amount of abuse. get on in years and things like putting in 18 hour days (or giving up all your money including savings) are less possible and more dangerous....

and i'd have to agree with others that i haven't seen anyone exactly wishing for you to fail. people might seem a bit negative, but i think it's ultimately based in concern -- and maybe bitter experience.

maybe you can get away with it more or less -- perhaps adjusted to address problems you run into and reduce its risks. but you could also drive cross country not wearing a seat belt and more likely than not survive without a scratch, but that doesn't mean it's a prudent thing to do, or that your 'success' in doing so would be an accurate representation of the actual risks and generalizes about what people should do.

 

[I M Dex]

Many people on this forum have decided that I'm following a useless course of action, and are just waiting for me to fall on my face and admit defeat. They are the ones who will be disappointed with my little successes.

However, I'm not as young as I used to be, and I've had a few "complications". More details when I get to my next weekly progress report.

Helena

I would hope that nobody here wants you to fall on your face and feel defeated. It's common knowledge that using a sauna has health benefits, while most of us would agree that the claims for the purif are hyperbole, and it's not necessarily safe or healthful to do that program, especially unsupervised, and I'm certain I speak for most if not all of us in saying we wish it only works out well for you. I'm sure that some feel it's for the best not to see anything here that might encourage another to do the purif or get involved with Scientology, and so would prefer to see evidence to discourage such things, but even then I'm sure it's without any personal unkind intentions toward you.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

i think that points to another problem -- it seems to me like practically everything in Hubbard's system was intended to take advantage of younger people whose bodies and psyches (and lives) were strong and resilient, and likely with withstand a fair amount of abuse. get on in years and things like putting in 18 hour days (or giving up all your money including savings) are less possible and more dangerous....

and i'd have to agree with others that i haven't seen anyone exactly wishing for you to fail. people might seem a bit negative, but i think it's ultimately based in concern -- and maybe bitter experience.

maybe you can get away with it more or less -- perhaps adjusted to address problems you run into and reduce its risks. but you could also drive cross country not wearing a seat belt and more likely than not survive without a scratch, but that doesn't mean it's a prudent thing to do, or that your 'success' in doing so would be an accurate representation of the actual risks and generalizes about what people should do.

..
Scientology was actually a really positive thing at the beginning.

Then, later, it went off the rails and became a really evil thing.

Using a fully charged e-meter, I just now was able to DATE the exact moment it went off the rails.

It was on the 4th word that Hubbard wrote in 1950.

DIANETICS THE MODERN SCIENCE OF MENTAL HEALTH
​

It's a shame. Because up until that point I was having huge wins.

..

 

[Reyne Mayer]

Scientology was actually a really positive thing at the beginning.

Then, later, it went off the rails and became a really evil thing.

i would date it to some point on a day in 1938, when 'source' and some friends got high on nitrous oxide gas -- reading between the lines as is typically necessary with him, it sounds to me more like he got ahold of dental gas for 'recreational' purposes than underwent a dental procedure -- and after doing what are sometimes known as 'whippets' in modern times, he went and wrote 'Excalibur', going down a dark rabbit hole of megalomania (a not unknown effect of nitrous oxide intoxication, though with a particularly power-hungry spin in his case).

 

[mimsey borogrove]

Many people on this forum have decided that I'm following a useless course of action, and are just waiting for me to fall on my face and admit defeat. They are the ones who will be disappointed with my little successes.

However, I'm not as young as I used to be, and I've had a few "complications". More details when I get to my next weekly progress report.

Helena

Helena's C/S:

VWD, continue. Report to us if any ill effect arises. Please also tell us any wins - some of us who have done the purif have had some and would like to enjoy yours.

Mimsey

 

[mimsey borogrove]

i would date it to some point on a day in 1938, when 'source' and some friends got high on nitrous oxide gas -- reading between the lines as is typically necessary with him, it sounds to me more like he got ahold of dental gas for 'recreational' purposes than underwent a dental procedure -- and after doing what are sometimes known as 'whippets' in modern times, he went and wrote 'Excalibur', going down a dark rabbit hole of megalomania (a not unknown effect of nitrous oxide intoxication, though with a particularly power-hungry spin in his case).

I think you have that mixed up with what actually happened - Elron was getting dental work, they administered nitrous and he had a spiritual awakening, knew the secrets of life. (and I believe he was stuck in a win. I think he was chasing that for years.) He discusses the dental incident on some tape lectures - when he woke up he was in a different location in his head which was a revelation for him.

Mimsey
The Nitrous Oxide Philosopher

Do drugs make religious experience possible?
They did for James and for other philosopher-mystics of his day. James's experiments with psychoactive drugs raise difficult questions about belief and its conditions
By Dmitri Tymoczko
HE has short hair and a long brown beard. He is wearing a three-piece suit. One imagines him slumped over his desk, giggling helplessly. Pushed to one side is an apparatus out of a junior-high science experiment: a beaker containing some ammonium nitrate, a few inches of tubing, a cloth bag. Under one hand is a piece of paper, on which he has written, "That sounds like nonsense but it is pure on sense!" He giggles a little more. The writing trails away. He holds his forehead in both hands. He is stoned. He is William James, the American psychologist and philosopher. And for the first time he feels that he is understanding religious mysticism.

More at link:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1996/05/the-nitrous-oxide-philosopher/376581/

 

[vegan3]

I do remember hearing his dental story. I have to wonder though, if it was such an incredible experience, why did he then avoid dentists like the plague? Maybe he said but I don’t remember.

 

[mimsey borogrove]

I do remember hearing his dental story. I have to wonder though, if it was such an incredible experience, why did he then avoid dentists like the plague? Maybe he said but I don’t remember.

He also didn't like Dr.s either, like when he broke his arm riding a bike? Perhaps OT 9 is cause over medicos? Gene Denk was his private Dr. for a while.

Mimsey

 

[vegan3]

he was just a nut job all the way around. Scientology Founder's son-in-law ~~ Guy White's first podcast. He fled after 20 years IN.

 

[Helena Handbasket]

Second week: some days I've had a niacin flush, some days I haven't. I'm having difficulties working my way up to 5 hours, and I do skip some days, but I figure at my age I'll just do the best I can.

Helena

 

[Type4_PTS]

Second week: some days I've had a niacin flush, some days I haven't. I'm having difficulties working my way up to 5 hours, and I do skip some days, but I figure at my age I'll just do the best I can.

The most important thing to understand IMO when doing the purif are the symptoms one experiences when dehydrated, and/or needing electrolytes, and of course, symptoms of heat stroke, especially if you're doing it unsupervised, but even if not.

I did the purif when in my 20s and had no issue doing 5 hours a day as long as I stayed alert to all that and addressed any issue immediately.
Maybe it isn't as easy to do 5 hours when you're older.

If you do some searching you'll find that the sauna has some great benefits if you do it 20-30 minutes/day 2-4 days/week. I have serious doubts that staying in for 5 hours is more beneficial than staying in for 30 minutes.

 

[I M Dex]

Logically, such a program should be calibrated to your body. To set any one size fits all amount of time to stay in the sauna is going to have inconsistent results from one person to the next. Same for the temperature. My normal body temperature happens to be 97.6, not 98.6. When most people are comfortable, I'm a bit cold, and when I'm comfortable, most people are too warm. Same for my sister, but not my son. Genetics. 5 hours is arbitrary, it's not based on your individual physiology. That's just common sense.
30 years ago I tore my rotator cuff in the gym on the weight bench pressing more than my frame could handle, because I was paying attention to what bigger guys were benching. 30 years later, at nearly 70, when I play basketball I often can't fully extend my arm for a simple hook shot now because of the strain. It's best not to have to learn the hard way.
Trust your senses, how you feel, there's no benefit or nobility to "loyally" exceeding the limits of what you can tolerate well enough. Be smart and trust your senses and your instincts. That will optimize what you get out of this.