Jon Atack and Chris Shelton answer the question: Are cult members stupid?

Karen#1

Karen#1

Well-known member
Excerpt:

Jon Atack and Chris Shelton teamed up for a new video this week. Jon’s helper Spike Robinson describes what’s in it…

“Are cult members stupid?” It’s a question to raise the hackles of any cult survivor, and rightly so. Despite years of evidence showing that those who are seduced into authoritarian groups are, in fact, intelligent, altruistic, idealistic and often highly educated, the myth of the “stupid” cult member persists. In this rollicking and wide-ranging discussion with Jon Atack, Chris Shelton suggests a helpful and innovative re-framing of the question, suggesting a way to reconcile the stupid, irrational beliefs with the intelligent, otherwise rational human being clinging to those beliefs.~~~READ MORE

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Jon Atack and Chris Shelton answer the question: Are cult members stupid? | The Underground Bunker

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Enthetan

Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
To be drawn into a cult, you don't need to be stupid. You just need to have needs that you think the cult will satisfy, whether loneliness, needing a sense of purpose, etc.
 
HelluvaHoax!

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
.

There are innumerable mathematical equations and algorithms in the human experience that end up equating to and effectively rendering one stupid.

There are countless paths, lanes, streets, roads, avenues, boulevards, expressways and detours--any one of which can lead to stupid. Some of the more notable ones are vanity, superstition, gullibility and naïveté.

Stupid, like a towering redwood tree, can gradually grow over centuries from a single seed.

However, stupid can also suddenly erupt from the soil where it has stealthily been laying an invisible underground network of roots for 5 years or more--at which time it can experience explosive growth to stunning heights.

1637450206739.png

"A Chinese bamboo tree takes five years to grow. It has to be watered and fertilized
in the ground where it has been planted every day. It doesn’t break through
the ground for five years. After five years, once it breaks through the
ground, it will grow 90 feet tall in five weeks!"

.​
 
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Karen#1

Karen#1

Well-known member
Jeffrey Augustine made a good point on his post on the Bunker ~~
"Why do some cult members become criminals and engage in crime?" is a better question. (Poisoning pet dogs, holding staff in lockdown imprisonment, enforced and co-erced abortions, beatings, assault and battery, preposterous character assassinations in their "FREEDOM Media" site etc. The criminal cult mouths off on the *criminality* of those that expose them

Here's the post ~~


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      Avatar
      J. Swift • 3 hours ago • edited
      The question "Are cult members stupid?" is, in my view, a deeply insulting question. Likewise, the belief that "rationality" is an answer is flawed because rationality is a construct and has myriad definitions across cultures. For example, public beheadings in Saudi Arabia are deemed a necessary form of obedience to Shari'ah law.
      "Why is violence intrinsic to cultic belief systems?" would have been a better question.
      "How do dangerous cults radicalize their members?" would have been a better question.
      "What is it about L. Ron Hubbard's marketing and sales approach, and his writing in general, that makes it so appealing and effective that it results in a certain class of people joining the Sea Org or becoming Scientology publics?"
      *****
      For someone to spend $500,000, or more, on Scientology in a Democratic-Capitalistic society is their right. For that same person to poison someone's dog as an OSA volunteer is a crime. Therefore, what makes a person become a criminal and poison a perceived SP's pet?
      What makes a person commit a $1.8 billion Ponzi scheme and donate some of the proceeds of crime to Scientology? Why does Scientology accept the financial proceeds of crime?
      Why does Scientology chronically engage in systematic theft such as the Chase Wave? The write up posted here on the Bunker showed a methodical and calculated method at work. This was not stupidity. The exposure of the Chase Wave showed deliberate criminality at work. Hence the question, "      Why do some cult members become criminals and engage in crime?" is a better question. The Chase Wave crime was likely justified as being for greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics.
      *****
      Part of what makes a cult dangerous is that its leaders are smart and dangerous and inculcate ruthlessness and unquestioning obedience into the membership. Cults are about power and the ruthless use of various forms of lies, manipulation, undue influence, crime, and terrorism to achieve and attain power.
      *****
      I just worked on a case where someone was conned out of a lot of money in a cryptocurrency fraud. The victim was promised a 25% return per month on their money. Someone asked me this question: Don't the victims of Ponzi schemes deserve to be conned for being greedy and stupid?
      IMO, to ask such a question is to say that the predators should not be arrested or face any consequences because their victims deserved what they got.
      To ask if cult members are stupid is the same as asking if the victims of financial crime are stupid.
      *****
      Are atheists the arbiters of rationality? China is ruled by atheist Communist rulers out to crush the West and rule the world in a long game strategy in which Communism uses Capitalistic means to achieve political and military dominance. Jon and Chris are talking about their Western view of rationality as lensed through their Western atheism. The construct and ideology here are apparent
 
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R

Riddick

I clap to no man
Karen#1 said:
Excerpt:

Jon Atack and Chris Shelton teamed up for a new video this week. Jon’s helper Spike Robinson describes what’s in it…

“Are cult members stupid?” It’s a question to raise the hackles of any cult survivor, and rightly so. Despite years of evidence showing that those who are seduced into authoritarian groups are, in fact, intelligent, altruistic, idealistic and often highly educated, the myth of the “stupid” cult member persists. In this rollicking and wide-ranging discussion with Jon Atack, Chris Shelton suggests a helpful and innovative re-framing of the question, suggesting a way to reconcile the stupid, irrational beliefs with the intelligent, otherwise rational human being clinging to those beliefs.~~~READ MORE

tonyortega.org

Jon Atack and Chris Shelton answer the question: Are cult members stupid? | The Underground Bunker

tonyortega.org tonyortega.org
Click to expand...
In my personal opinion, smart people joined because Hubbard appealed to 3 basic things, that is logos, pathos or ethos, maybe one got you, or maybe two got you, or maybe all three got you. A stupid person won't fall for those appeals because they are mentally deficient, the movie Forrest Gump is actually a stupid person who would not fall for scientology, you might say, but still managed to make it, of course that movie is not true in real life.

Hubbard appealed or persuaded thru his rhetoric writings and spoken words, lectures, to our sense of logic, and emotions and character or status (ethos).

Anyways, just my humble opinion. Programmer Guy will respond with what he usually does.

You also have to realize, Hubbard didn't want to appeal to dumb people for they didn't make money, although his writings were of such to help the little people, that appealed to your sense of helping others..

You also have to remember that Hubbard said Scientology makes the able more able, the rhetoric of it all.
 
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HelluvaHoax!

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
programmer_guy

programmer_guy

True ex-Scientologist
Riddick said:
In my personal opinion, smart people joined because Hubbard appealed to 3 basic things, that is logos, pathos or ethos, maybe one got you, or maybe two got you, or maybe all three got you. A stupid person won't fall for those appeals because they are mentally deficient, the movie Forrest Gump is actually a stupid person who would not fall for scientology, you might say, but still managed to make it, of course that movie is not true in real life.

Hubbard appealed or persuaded thru his rhetoric writings and spoken words, lectures, to our sense of logic, and emotions and character or status (ethos).

Anyways, just my humble opinion. Programmer Guy will respond with what he usually does.

You also have to realize, Hubbard didn't want to appeal to dumb people for they didn't make money, although his writings were of such to help the little people, that appealed to your sense of helping others..

You also have to remember that Hubbard said Scientology makes the able more able, the rhetoric of it all.
Click to expand...
Yes, you are partially correct. :)

However, for lower level auditing, I recommend that you do a lot of reading/research into topics about brain neuro-transmitters to add to your knowledge.
 
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Xenu Xenu Xenu

Xenu Xenu Xenu

Well-known member
HelluvaHoax! said:
.




Perfection!

.
Click to expand...
KEEP ENABLING HUBBARD

Getting the correct technology applied consists of:

Why would I waste my time and money doing that?

One: Having the correct technology.

You know, you are wasting your time, it's a cult.

Two: Knowing the technology.

I bet could rip off some of this shit and start a cult of my own. At least, that would be the plan.

Three: Knowing it is correct.

What is reality anyway? You can flap your arms all you want, but you will never fly like a bird or even a rocket ship.

Four: Teaching correctly the correct technology.

Looks like we got ourselves a cult here.

Five: Applying the technology.

It's still the same old story,
A fight for bucks and glory.

Six: Seeing that the technology is correctly applied.

I know this is weird, but now it's getting really weird.

Seven: Hammering out of existence incorrect technology.

And now, it is complete. You are a cult member.

Eight: Knocking out incorrect applications.

They should be asking you to join staff right about now.

Nine: Closing the door on any possibility of incorrect technology.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Sea Org or OSA have approached you to join the crusade. Oh yeah, that's right. The OSA and the Sea Org were not in existence at the time of Hubbard's writing this PL. You win. I'm wrong. Scientology really does work! It's not a cult!

Ten: Closing the door on incorrect application.

Hubbard wanted money and lots of it. He also loved the power. Who wouldn't? I suppose that could be true. He sure seemed greedy for both money and power. The more he got, the more he wanted. I wonder if he was constipated?



I don't have any big message. I'm not Paul Revere.
 
R

Riddick

I clap to no man
programmer_guy said:
Yes, you are partially correct. :)

However, for lower level auditing, I recommend that you do a lot of reading/research into topics about brain neuro-transmitters to add to your knowledge.
Click to expand...
and once people left lower level auditing but still continued, what happened then?
 
R

Riddick

I clap to no man
Xenu Xenu Xenu said:
KEEP ENABLING HUBBARD

Getting the correct technology applied consists of:

Why would I waste my time and money doing that?

One: Having the correct technology.

You know, you are wasting your time, it's a cult.

Two: Knowing the technology.

I bet could rip off some of this shit and start a cult of my own. At least, that would be the plan.

Three: Knowing it is correct.

What is reality anyway? You can flap your arms all you want, but you will never fly like a bird or even a rocket ship.

Four: Teaching correctly the correct technology.

Looks like we got ourselves a cult here.

Five: Applying the technology.

It's still the same old story,
A fight for bucks and glory.

Six: Seeing that the technology is correctly applied.

I know this is weird, but now it's getting really weird.

Seven: Hammering out of existence incorrect technology.

And now, it is complete. You are a cult member.

Eight: Knocking out incorrect applications.

They should be asking you to join staff right about now.

Nine: Closing the door on any possibility of incorrect technology.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Sea Org or OSA have approached you to join the crusade. Oh yeah, that's right. The OSA and the Sea Org were not in existence at the time of Hubbard's writing this PL. You win. I'm wrong. Scientology really does work! It's not a cult!

Ten: Closing the door on incorrect application.

Hubbard wanted money and lots of it. He also loved the power. Who wouldn't? I suppose that could be true. He sure seemed greedy for both money and power. The more he got, the more he wanted. I wonder if he was constipated?



I don't have any big message. I'm not Paul Revere.
Click to expand...
people that first got involved didn't know what you said about hubbard's 10 points of KSW. Back in 1965 that was the rhetoric and is the rhetoric. I didn't know when I got involved in the 1980's.

What you said is the logical outcome after all these years of nobody going clear or OT. And I agree.

What I like to point out is the rhetoric of it all.
 
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