David Mayo wanted to discontinue OT 2 and OT 3

Chuck J.

"Austere Religious Scholar"
That sounds like my experience on LSD.

"As human beings, living in a holographic universe, we recognize...." implies someone built the hologram. Who do you believe done that? To keep 7+ billion people in "holographic universe" must take a huge amount of work. I don't even want to into the energy it takes to maintain it.
Pilot has more info about Mud Universe and Universes in general.
http://fzinternational.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Super-Scio.pdf

Interesting reading.
 

Chuck J.

"Austere Religious Scholar"
Stepping outside of time stream is the worst. I rather get run over by a train on Mars.
I've had it happen. For me it was nice and comfortable. Nothing but whiteness. But nothing was going on - so I wanted some action. Boom, back in the time stream.
 

mimsey borogrove

Well-known member
As I listen to the interview, there's an interesting part starting around 28 min, where he's discussing why were are here, what we are supposed to do, and after that, he discusses the addictive nature of being human. Of wanting to come back here again, live another life instead of go home. (there's short technical break you can skip through and he picks up where he left off.)

 

mimsey borogrove

Well-known member
That sounds like my experience on LSD.

"As human beings, living in a holographic universe, we recognize...." implies someone built the hologram. Who do you believe done that? To keep 7+ billion people in "holographic universe" must take a huge amount of work. I don't even want to into the energy it takes to maintain it.
The mind does the lifting - it tunes into the holographic spectrum. The reason it's called the holographic universe is because each part of a broken hologram has a smaller representation of the whole thing. So when we tune into the overall pattern we get a smaller portion of the whole that we perceive as the universe around us. Or something like that.

Mimsey
 

Zertel

Well-known member
Trivia - Not exact figures but 99++% of solid matter is empty space. If you compress all the empty space between the electrons, neutrons and protons with gravity you end up with a neutron star and a human body becomes the size of a speck of dust. When you touch something solid the sense of solidity comes from the outer electons in your fingertip repelling against the outer electrons in the object.

One time on Marty Rathbun's blog there was an extended debate about whether a thetan has a tiny bit of mass. It wasn't resolved.
 
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Zertel

Well-known member
"Hubbard was head gaming his own loyal followers and, this time" Do you suppose he was juicing his followers too? Coke among other drugs was cheap and readily available. I think he was doing that to get the movement off the ground, a sort of jump start if you will. After that the success story dog and pony show was enough to dazzle the new comers. His juggernaut grew to 100K+ very quickly.

I find Scientology's start, like many cults, fascinating.
Regarding Mr. Hubbard juicing his followers with coke, I think you're confusing him with Timothy Leary and LSD.

just joking

I think I once read something about Hubbard mentioning that some type of amphetamine might be an aid to auditing, but other than that no juicing.
 
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Zertel

Well-known member
People's metaphysical experiences and beliefs are topical on this forum.

Mockery and ridicule aren't even remotely engagement in discourse. Can't you do better than that ?
A wiki article on World Population says the number of humans who have ever lived is estimated to be of the order of 100 billion. Probably hundreds of millions of people over time have experienced random moments of a transcendental or paranormal nature with various descriptions like peak, satori, religious and so on. My guess is that only a small percentage of the current population has had such an experience and the scientific realists generally put them in the category of some type of chemical release in the brain. Why argue? Lol

LSD and psychedelic trips don't count. The user might like to think their tripping revelation(s) were real , true and persistent but the doubt would always be "Was it real or just the chemical?"

Here's a list of my non chemically induced transcendental experiences . . . . . . . . nah - never mind.
 

Ed8

Well-known member
Trivia - Not exact figures but 99++% of solid matter is empty space. If you compress all the empty space between the electrons, neutrons and protons with gravity you end up with a neutron star and a human body becomes the size of a speck of dust. When you touch something solid the sense of solidity comes from the outer electons in your fingertip repelling against the outer electrons in the object.

One time on Marty Rathbun's blog there was an extended debate about whether a thetan has a tiny bit of mass. It wasn't resolved.
Hi Zertel,
As I see it the difficulty with that debate is how 'thetan' is defined. We resolved that on an old discussion group (now gone, RIP yahoogroups) by adding two modifiers: located and unlocated. So thetan located is in a MEST or EST (pre-mest) universe, and possesses energy fields; the most obvious of these is called a theta-body, aka spirit-body. Thetan unlocated is the source of thetan located and is not sitting inside a universe; this is what Hubbard called a static.

Using those definitions, a thetan located has energy fields, and thus mass or equivalent of mass, per Einstein. A thetan unlocated (a static) has no mass.
cheers
Ed
 

Cat's Squirrel

Well-known member
Hi Zertel,
As I see it the difficulty with that debate is how 'thetan' is defined. We resolved that on an old discussion group (now gone, RIP yahoogroups) by adding two modifiers: located and unlocated. So thetan located is in a MEST or EST (pre-mest) universe, and possesses energy fields; the most obvious of these is called a theta-body, aka spirit-body. Thetan unlocated is the source of thetan located and is not sitting inside a universe; this is what Hubbard called a static.

Using those definitions, a thetan located has energy fields, and thus mass or equivalent of mass, per Einstein. A thetan unlocated (a static) has no mass.
cheers
Ed
Ed, I always understood that static meant what it says - that which does not change - and was completely undifferentiated. So in other words, there isn't "my" static and "your" static, but just static - just as we talk about the Pacific Ocean and the Atlantic Ocean, but these are just names for the thing we call the sea.

I was never 100% convinced by the "thetan" concept anyway. People here have pointed out that it's probably not a coincidence that the word rhymes with "Satan".
 

Bill

Well-known member
Hi Zertel,
As I see it the difficulty with that debate is how 'thetan' is defined. We resolved that on an old discussion group (now gone, RIP yahoogroups) by adding two modifiers: located and unlocated. So thetan located is in a MEST or EST (pre-mest) universe, and possesses energy fields; the most obvious of these is called a theta-body, aka spirit-body. Thetan unlocated is the source of thetan located and is not sitting inside a universe; this is what Hubbard called a static.

Using those definitions, a thetan located has energy fields, and thus mass or equivalent of mass, per Einstein. A thetan unlocated (a static) has no mass.
cheers
Ed
Let's "resolve" the really important question: "How many thetans can dance on the head of a pin?"
 
Ed, I always understood that static meant what it says - that which does not change - and was completely undifferentiated. So in other words, there isn't "my" static and "your" static, but just static - just as we talk about the Pacific Ocean and the Atlantic Ocean, but these are just names for the thing we call the sea.

I was never 100% convinced by the "thetan" concept anyway. People here have pointed out that it's probably not a coincidence that the word rhymes with "Satan".
Well, the terms "static" and "thetan" are just labels for the sparkle of light that is supposed to be the real you; "thetan" as a label for the sparkle of light manifested in the physical universe and "static" as a label for the sparkle of light unmanifested in the physical universe (no location and so on). Although sometimes scientologists might use the term "thetan" with the meaning "static".
 

Pepin

Well-known member
I understand - when I left scientology, I wanted to know more than what Hubbard spoke of. Not everybody has that inclination. There's plenty that is hog wash, and there's much challenges our understanding of the nature of existence.

Like black holes - how do they exist in defiance of the physical laws of nature? Or the big bang - how could a universe come from nothing via a singularity? Why did you know who was going to call you before the phone rang, or upon picking it up before the person spoke?

That's the big problem - being willing the question the pillars of your beliefs. Perhaps a time will come when your curiosity gets the better of you.
Mimsey
The telephone: Someone thinks of you, this message is sent instantly telepathically. You think of them, lo and behold the phone rings.
It's all communicated energy.
 

mimsey borogrove

Well-known member
The telephone: Someone thinks of you, this message is sent instantly telepathically. You think of them, lo and behold the phone rings.
It's all communicated energy.
That happened a lot to me when I was solo auditing on OT 7

MImsey
 

mimsey borogrove

Well-known member
Ed, I always understood that static meant what it says - that which does not change - and was completely undifferentiated. So in other words, there isn't "my" static and "your" static, but just static - just as we talk about the Pacific Ocean and the Atlantic Ocean, but these are just names for the thing we call the sea.

I was never 100% convinced by the "thetan" concept anyway. People here have pointed out that it's probably not a coincidence that the word rhymes with "Satan".
According to Hubbard there's co-existence as static, but the statics consider themselves located in the mest universe, in order to have a game. Mimsey
 

pineapple

能说的名字不真的名字
I think I once read something about Hubbard mentioning that some type of amphetamine might be an aid to auditing, but other than that no juicing.
Hubbard recommends benzedrine for dianetic pc's in DMSMH.

Other drugs were sometimes used too in the early days.

In Alec Nevala-Lee's 2018 book "Astounding", he quotes John W. Campbell, who says Hubbard gave him phenobarbitol and scopolamine to overcome his resistance to hypnosis (which was the original "dianetic reverie"), and when he refused to take it a second time, rigged up a strobe-like device to induce hypnotic trance.
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Edit: There's a tape where Hubbard says, "We used to shoot the pc's up with heroin and whizzo juice." Not sure, but it was probably one of the two tapes that used to be on the dianetics course. (I think they were on both HSDC and NED.) I remember somebody getting star-rated on the tape and flunking 'cause he couldn't define "whizzo juice."
 
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Reyne Mayer

Pansexual Revolutionary
Hubbard recommends benzedrine for dianetic pc's in DMSMH.

Other drugs were sometimes used too in the early days.
wasn't benzedrine part of the original 'guk bomb' or something, heavily promoted at the time to 'help a case run' and all that? (it is a methamphetamine that was legal then)

i've seen all sorts of references to drug experimentation and use, including to addiction to 'soporiphics'. and not only does the 'pinks and grays' reference indicate ongoing habitual drug use, the 'rum' apparently amounted to a bottle a day for as long as two decades, chronic alcoholism....

all indications are that he was quite the druggie and alky, though it's sort of gotten lost in the shuffle, probably in part because it wasn't so much out of the ordinary in the 'Mad Men' and then 'better living through chemistry' eras. reading between the lines, reports of his drug and alcohol use seem to cease in the late '60s, and i'm guessing he might have gone cold turkey around the time of his motorcycle accident and other health problems, perhaps pushed into it by Mary Sue.
 
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