L Ron Hubbard
Well-known member
Unlocking Superpowers: A Conversation with Sege del Mar and @RageAgainstTheDarkArts
Champion of Betrayal: Exposing Mike Rinder's False Advocacy & Unlocking Superpowers
- Thread starter L Ron Hubbard
- Start date
Unlocking Superpowers: A Conversation with Sege del Mar and @RageAgainstTheDarkArts
Karakorum
千差万別
I have my own concerns with some of the questions Mike did not answer and the information he did not share. But Serge's reply here and in his other recent 'Mike Rinder's Betrayal of Child Advocacy' video is just disingenious. Even though he also makes some points that are valid.
Serge was a victim of horrible child abuse. I get that. He is very, very angry. I get that as well. Mike is not being as open as cooperative as we hoped he would be - that is profoundly dissapointing and annoying. I also get that.
But Serge several times is putting words in their mouths or reinterpreting what they said in ways that are clearly not what they meant and not what was said. For example: Serge claimed that Mike is using 'the royal we' and then puts into Mike's mouth the claim that Mike single handedly changed the statute of limitations.
The fact however is that, Mike made it obvious that he was talking about a group that he was a part of (members of 'Child USA'). That was the 'we' in question. He was using 'we' precisely in order to stress that he did not do any of that single handedly..
That's just one example of Serge misrepresenting what Mike said.
Serge also engages in victim blaming as well here.
He states that Jon and Mike agreed to be slaves of Hubbard and Miscavige.
For the record: Mike was a 5 year old child when his parents joined. Jon joined at the age of 19.
But the real issue is that nobody, adult or not, ever agrees to be a slave when they first get body-routed into an org. Scientology lies and obfuscates and hides its real operating policies behind layers and layers of meembership levels and secret hat packs etc.
At the very least it is a prolonged process of indoctrination and 'slowly boiling the frog'.
I find it hard to walk away from Serge's 'Mike Rinder's Betrayal of Child Advocacy' video without an impression that he is trying to rank former members. That he is ascribing the highest value to child victims of SA, less value to people who were kids when they joined but did not suffer SA and the least amount of value to people who joined as 'consenting adults'. Serge then proceeds to invalidate the experiences of that last group. That is how I understood his statements.
Previously Mike implied that people who were not in high positions of CoS management can't offer an informed opinion and do not have a right to judge what is going on. That was not OK, I called Mike out on that and described that claim as disingenious.
Serge has implied that nobody who joined the CoS as an adult can offer an informed opinion or has a right to judge what is going on. That is also not OK, I believe that is deeply disingenious as well.
I think Serge made these two videos in 'angry and caffinated' mode. I sometimes made posts while being in that mode as well in the past. I think it is understandable why he says the things he does in the way he does.
But it does not make them true and it does not make them right or OK. The victim blaming was not OK.
Serge was a victim of horrible child abuse. I get that. He is very, very angry. I get that as well. Mike is not being as open as cooperative as we hoped he would be - that is profoundly dissapointing and annoying. I also get that.
But Serge several times is putting words in their mouths or reinterpreting what they said in ways that are clearly not what they meant and not what was said. For example: Serge claimed that Mike is using 'the royal we' and then puts into Mike's mouth the claim that Mike single handedly changed the statute of limitations.
The fact however is that, Mike made it obvious that he was talking about a group that he was a part of (members of 'Child USA'). That was the 'we' in question. He was using 'we' precisely in order to stress that he did not do any of that single handedly..
That's just one example of Serge misrepresenting what Mike said.
Serge also engages in victim blaming as well here.
He states that Jon and Mike agreed to be slaves of Hubbard and Miscavige.
For the record: Mike was a 5 year old child when his parents joined. Jon joined at the age of 19.
But the real issue is that nobody, adult or not, ever agrees to be a slave when they first get body-routed into an org. Scientology lies and obfuscates and hides its real operating policies behind layers and layers of meembership levels and secret hat packs etc.
At the very least it is a prolonged process of indoctrination and 'slowly boiling the frog'.
I find it hard to walk away from Serge's 'Mike Rinder's Betrayal of Child Advocacy' video without an impression that he is trying to rank former members. That he is ascribing the highest value to child victims of SA, less value to people who were kids when they joined but did not suffer SA and the least amount of value to people who joined as 'consenting adults'. Serge then proceeds to invalidate the experiences of that last group. That is how I understood his statements.
Previously Mike implied that people who were not in high positions of CoS management can't offer an informed opinion and do not have a right to judge what is going on. That was not OK, I called Mike out on that and described that claim as disingenious.
Serge has implied that nobody who joined the CoS as an adult can offer an informed opinion or has a right to judge what is going on. That is also not OK, I believe that is deeply disingenious as well.
I think Serge made these two videos in 'angry and caffinated' mode. I sometimes made posts while being in that mode as well in the past. I think it is understandable why he says the things he does in the way he does.
But it does not make them true and it does not make them right or OK. The victim blaming was not OK.
Last edited:
Karakorum
千差万別
Addendum:
I think some people here had an idea that I'm somehow siding with one group of former scientilogists against Mike and another group over these issues.
I'm not.
I'm not defending Mike or Jon here. I am very consciously criticizing and calling Serge out. What I'm doing is trying to call a spade for what it is and give my own, individual, free and honest opinion on these issues. Because these are important issues. Some people won't care about my opinions and that is their right. My right is to express them nevertheless.
All my time inside the cult I've been told: "Don't forward an enemy line!" That if someone 'on our team' does or says something wrong or stupid or abusive, then I should ignore it and pretend like that didn't happen. "Because we are all on the same team, so f-ing shut up and stay on the team!"
That's cult black-and-white thinking 101. I'm not gonna do that BS anymore. If I see someone doing or saying something wrong, I'm gonna say so. Doesn't matetr if it is an indie, a youtube critic, a celebrity... if it is Mike, Leah, Serge, Aaron, Nora or anyone else. I'm not gonna give an 'ex-scn kha-khan status'. If they say and do good things, I'll support them. If they say and do wrong stuff, I'm gonna call them out.
In this specific instance, Serge said some things that I found to be profoundly wrong and harmful and I'm calling him out.
Peace.
I think some people here had an idea that I'm somehow siding with one group of former scientilogists against Mike and another group over these issues.
I'm not.
I'm not defending Mike or Jon here. I am very consciously criticizing and calling Serge out. What I'm doing is trying to call a spade for what it is and give my own, individual, free and honest opinion on these issues. Because these are important issues. Some people won't care about my opinions and that is their right. My right is to express them nevertheless.
All my time inside the cult I've been told: "Don't forward an enemy line!" That if someone 'on our team' does or says something wrong or stupid or abusive, then I should ignore it and pretend like that didn't happen. "Because we are all on the same team, so f-ing shut up and stay on the team!"
That's cult black-and-white thinking 101. I'm not gonna do that BS anymore. If I see someone doing or saying something wrong, I'm gonna say so. Doesn't matetr if it is an indie, a youtube critic, a celebrity... if it is Mike, Leah, Serge, Aaron, Nora or anyone else. I'm not gonna give an 'ex-scn kha-khan status'. If they say and do good things, I'll support them. If they say and do wrong stuff, I'm gonna call them out.
In this specific instance, Serge said some things that I found to be profoundly wrong and harmful and I'm calling him out.
Peace.
Isaac
Well-known member
Today at 1:51 AM
“This isn't the Ex Mike Rinder Message Board, Isaac. This has gotten obsessive. You're going to have to find a way to live with others not being on board with your mission. Most of us here have fallen for propaganda before, and it served as inoculation”
IM Dex
Look out for IM Dex wants to suppress this subject.
IM Dex invalidation method is to discount the subject matter by accusing posters of being "obsessive" and calling it "propaganda". It appears IM Dex believes I can't live with others being on board with my mission.
My mission is to expose the truth backed by evidence.
IM Dex's mission is to not listen to anyone but Mike Rinder and then suppress and invalidate anyone who opposes his mission.
www.theguardian.com
“This isn't the Ex Mike Rinder Message Board, Isaac. This has gotten obsessive. You're going to have to find a way to live with others not being on board with your mission. Most of us here have fallen for propaganda before, and it served as inoculation”
IM Dex
Look out for IM Dex wants to suppress this subject.
IM Dex invalidation method is to discount the subject matter by accusing posters of being "obsessive" and calling it "propaganda". It appears IM Dex believes I can't live with others being on board with my mission.
My mission is to expose the truth backed by evidence.
IM Dex's mission is to not listen to anyone but Mike Rinder and then suppress and invalidate anyone who opposes his mission.
Denialism: what drives people to reject the truth
The long read: From vaccines to climate change to genocide, a new age of denialism is upon us. Why have we failed to understand it?
www.theguardian.com
Last edited:
Isaac
Well-known member
Definition of INOCULATION
the act or process or an instance of inoculating; especially : the introduction of a pathogen or antigen into a living organism to stimulate the production of antibodies; inoculum… See the full definition
I M Dex
Well-known member
Wow Isaac, you've really jumped the shark now. Any tenuous connection your posts had with reality is pretty much gone. Nothing you say here about me has any connection with truth. You most certainly are obsessed with denigrating Mike Rinder. And I'm not a follower of Mike. I don't subscribe to his blog or read his posts, nor have I ever had any form of communication to or with him. I would not call myself a fan, I merely respect what he's trying to do here and now in the present, and I have empathy for him, given his illness. Furthermore, your use of terms like "suppress" and "invalidate" betray the degree to which you are acting out your Church of Scientology mentality. You're fooling/influencing/swaying nobody. You seem to be in desperate need of at least a little bit of self-awareness. You're on auto pilot, and you're crashing into the mountain of your self-fueled delusion. You've blown a gasket because he very understandably was part of separating Aaron from Aftermath after some seriously bad behavior on Aaron's part, which you curiously dismiss, given your "crusader for exposure of truth" posture. You need to step back and see the picture, rather than painting it.Today at 1:51 AM
This isn't the Ex Mike Rinder Message Board, Isaac. This has gotten obsessive. You're going to have to find a way to live with others not being on board with your mission. Most of us here have fallen for propaganda before, and it served as inoculation.
Look out for IM Dex wants to suppress this subject.
IM Dex invalidation method is to discount the subject matter by accusing posters of being "obsessive" and calling it "propaganda". It appears IM Dex believes I can't live with others being on board with my mission.
My mission is to expose the truth backed by evidence.
IM Dex's mission is to not listen to anyone but Mike Rinder and then suppress and invalidate anyone who opposes his mission.
View attachment 24802
Denialism: what drives people to reject the truth
The long read: From vaccines to climate change to genocide, a new age of denialism is upon us. Why have we failed to understand it?
Isaac
Well-known member
Again, IM Dex, you have missed the point of my posts
I am tired of repeating myself
But I will if you want to keep this going
I suggest when you calm down, review them and watch the videos displaying evidence
then wipe that egg off your face
