Why do some people keep saying things like "Scientology attacks" or Scientology Abuses" or Scientology does (whatever)?
- Thread starter I-amPneuma8
- Start date
Harold#1
A VERY STABLE SUPER GENIUS!!
Academic career[edit]
Professionally, Hayakawa was a linguist, psychologist, semanticist, teacher, and writer.[citation needed] He served as an instructor at the University of Wisconsin from 1936 to 1939 and at the Armour Institute of Technology (Illinois Institute of Technology as of 1940) from 1939 to 1948.[citation needed]
His first book on semantics, Language in Thought and Action, expanded its forerunner (and Book-of-the-Month Club selection) Language in Action, written from 1938-1941. With five editions from 1949-1991, Language in Thought and Action helped to popularize Alfred Korzybski's general semantics and semantics in general, while semantics or theory of meaning was overwhelmed by mysticism, propagandism and even scientism.[clarification needed]
Hayakawa lectured at the University of Chicago from 1950 to 1955. He presented a talk at the 1954 Conference of Activity Vector Analysts[4] at Lake George, New York, in which he discussed a theory of personality from the semantic point of view. It was later published as The Semantic Barrier. The definitive lecture discussed the Darwinism of the "survival of self" as contrasted with the "survival of self-concept." His ideas on general semantics influenced A. E. van Vogt's Null-A novels, The World of Null-A and The Pawns of Null-A. Van Vogt in The World of Null-A (i.e., non-Aristotelian) makes Hayakawa a character, introducing him as: "Professor Hayakawa is today's Mr. Null-A himself, the elected head of the International Society for General Semantics."[5]
Hayakawa was an English professor at San Francisco State College (now San Francisco State University) from 1955 to 1968. In the early 1960s, he helped organize the Anti Digit Dialing League, a San Francisco group that opposed the introduction of all-digit telephone exchange names. Among the students he trained were commune leader Stephen Gaskin and author Gerald Haslam. He was named acting president of San Francisco State College on November 26, 1968 during a student strike, when Ronald Reagan was governor of California and Joseph Alioto was mayor of San Francisco.[6] On July 9, 1969, the California State Colleges Board of Trustees appointed Hayakawa the ninth president of San Francisco State.[7] Hayakawa retired on July 10, 1973.[1][8]
Hayakawa wrote a column for the Register and Tribune Syndicate from 1970 to 1976. In 1973, Hayakawa changed his political affiliation from the Democratic Party to Republican Party and became president emeritus at what became San Francisco State University.[9]
Irayam
Well-known member
That's right. If only people would leave the theories of this pseudo science on the shelves of a forgotten library.
At best, the application of $cientology will do no good. Unfortunately, 99.9% of the time, the application of $cientology will cause harm.
Karakorum
千差万別
Well, it is a rather complex structure of corporations, formal and informal groups and various legal entities. People use "scientology" (correctly imho) to denote these in bulk. In the same way one can say "US military did X" instead of enumerating all the possible parts of it.
Very interesting post. You seem to be a good hearted person. A very well presented opinion I might add.
You asked for another's or others opinion and set the stage for a civil discourse if they are expressed in a civil manner. Kinda safe approach in a country of free speech or is that a silent form of sensorship? Hmmm.
Well... in the spirit set forth by you, I would like to share my thoughts:
Defending the indefensible is futile.
Ron wrote the book on gerneralties, so set the tone from day one. Here's a few of his faves:
The Bank
The Goverment
Wogs
Criminals
Heck I'm not even trying....
You say: It is a INANIMATE collection of principles, axioms, technology, policies etc...in written form and on audio tapes etc which left "sitting" (so to speak) in cabinets or in bookcases or on shelves does NOTHING. Causes NO harm. Does NO good. A knife does not stab someone. A person does the stabbing.
I say: It's an intentional mind fuck. It's it own form of PDH! Hey a Kurr turd is just a Kurr turd until you step in it. (Google Kurr Dog). And listen to ol faithful on RJ67.
With your logic Charles Manson should have been freed or Hitler never held a gun therefore he should be celebrated as one of the world's best life coaches that inspired so many. Ahhh how warm and fuzzy.
How about the PL on disconnection? It was written and supposedly withdrawn.
Yeah the original cancel culture at play there. It became unpopular, then hidden.
Why written in the first place by someone of higher altitude. It certainly harmed!
My point is Ron stirred the pot and I for one got out of the pot eventually, alive I might add- you might want to consider someday too.
My opinion -I believe Ron was searching for ultimate control of other minds and using good people to delve into and expand what he already knew. So by 1952 when he realized or was discovered by someone else that if you focused on creation of human ability there was a great chance the well would run dry for him...And he would then be truly freeing people, the exact opposite of what he honestly wanted. He had to throw a pile as a lot crap on top of and distract, say someone like me from the truth thereafter.
Either that or he was an MK Ultra experiment that went on way to long or wrong or right? This would explain his mashed military record and his mind gynastics.
I just came up with another idea:
Perhaps he was a narcissist meglomaniac and what he projected about others was actually himself; A little good, a little criminal, a little sane and little a aberrated -
Who enjoyed a good mind fuck now and then. Hey what's that not to like about the guy or his works.
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Type4_PTS
Well-known member
Driving people off this message board by treating them in a certain way could also help get a liability formula approved as well, couldn't it?
Type4_PTS
Well-known member
@ExitLeft
Just for the record, I don't like Scientology any more than you do, probably even less, but there was no need to address someone that way to get your point across in this thread.
As Ethercat (one of the ESMB Admins) wrote on the original ESMB:
You are free to attack the ideas, but not the holder of those ideas.
Just for the record, I don't like Scientology any more than you do, probably even less, but there was no need to address someone that way to get your point across in this thread.
As Ethercat (one of the ESMB Admins) wrote on the original ESMB:
You are free to attack the ideas, but not the holder of those ideas.
Rhetoric is a big subject worthy of advanced study. Most people couldn't give the definition of rhetoric if asked. The simplified idea most people would have is that words form ideas which sometimes become beliefs. That's probably why Hayakawa used the term word-magic which is a metaphor and gives a picture and is a simple if not totally accurate synonym of rhetoric. Observation, personal experience and other non verbal factors are other parts of learning.That isn't what trapped me ... I was originallytrappedenticed because I trusted my best friend who had become a scientologist virtually overnight. I didn't want to lose her, she was important to me (we are still friends). Gradually the cult glue caught me firmly until I decided it was ''safe" to finally flick it off, but rhetoric played a minor part throughout the whole experience.
I have no idea why my friend got sucked in ... that may have been down to rhetoric.
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I-am, I posted this on a different thread. It's kind of relevant to this thread you started so I'm re-posting it.
I left scn around 1979 soon after attesting to dianetic clear because of the price increases which I thought were greedy and unjustified. At the time I had no problem with the Tek and had not experienced any abuse. I never read a word about scn until I watched Going Clear in 2015 and started reading and participating on Rathbun's, Rinder's and Alanzo's blogs. Ortega, ESMB and other sites were active but those three were enough for me to express my opinions and ask questions and get feedback.
Particularly on Marty's blog he usually left a topic up for a week or more and there were a lot of side conversations about everything from Buddhism to the Occult to Taoism which people had investigated or practiced after leaving scn. I followed up and did some study and got an overview of several different subjects. At the time there were still a lot of "Indies" and people saying they had gotten or were still having some benefits from scn. I found many of them to be interesting and fun people.
When the Aftermath started it focused on the most egregious and horrific aspects of the formal cherch. That started a trend, IMO, where any mention of scn or Hubbard in a positive way is met with immediate hostility and hatred and indies and others with a more moderate view quit participating. Most of the people commenting today are those who were sea org, long term staff, people who got ripped off by the official cherch or never ins who have taken up the cause of eradicating scn in any and all of its forms. Since scn is proven to be a false path to "spiritual freedom" I guess that's to be expected.
.......................................................................................................................................
ETA: When I started reading Marty's blog in 2015 there were still a lot of "vigorous debates" going on about the potential "plus points and out points" of parts of the subject of scn itself, not the cherch. There was even a debate about whether or not a thetan has a "tiny bit of mass".
It didn't get resolved but I still thought it was an interesting discussion - something probably only a scientologist or ex would even consider. For myself I never got much into the more metaphysical parts of scn discussion.
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Veda
Well-known member
Looks like you got some backlash.
One post has been removed, and one has been edited by the moderator, so, if you'd like to return and respond, please feel free to do so.
In the event you do return, here's yet another observation.
From a 1985 interview of Martin Samuels, Mission Holder who also started the Delphian School in Oregon:
_________________________Begin quote_________________________
Hubbard operated according to a couple of key patterns...
The first pattern involved basically decent well intentioned people... no one was able to rise in the organization to a point of any real proximity to him, without being attacked and vilified...
The next pattern: It's reap and rape. Hubbard would let the reins loose. He'd let people believe they really could get on with it... He's let people believe they really could prosper to the full extent of their own ability, and enjoy the fruits of their labor.
And, with that kind of freedom, prosperity does occur; inevitably, though, he'd come along and rape and pillage and rip off and take what had been produced. The most dramatic example of this was '82, '83, when he "raped" his most decent people in management along with the mission holders, and looted the entire mission network.
And look at this pattern... He surrounded himself with absolute hooligans as "managers"; guys who beat the shit out of people. This man, who "is this OT, author of Science of Survival, completely able to predict human behavior," surrounded himself with ruthless people - like Miscavige - who got there because they emulated Hubbard's savagery. They emulated his total willingness to completely break, use, and discard another person.
And then after their hands were so bloody - and the only reason their hands were bloody was that they were doing what Hubbard wanted - when it finally started to get to the point where it couldn't be tolerated by people anymore, Hubbard wiped them out. Then he said, "My God! I didn't know!" Scapegoat. He even did that to his own wife, who went to jail in his place...
_____________________________________End quote_____________________________________
I told you I was trouble
Suspended animation.
I agree that rudeness was not the way to respond to the OP but to be fair to @ExitLeft (who is also a valued and fairly new member of ESMB)
@I-amPneuma8 does have a definite tendency to lead with his chin. He has being doing it for a long time and never hangs around to discuss anything in depth, he usually dumps an antagonistic post and then disappears for months.
In his opening post on this thread where (once again) he is defending scientology, he actually wanted "names" and "time, place, form and event" of bad guys (lol) and that, to my way of thinking was unnecessary and almost guaranteed to create upset in anyone who is still 'de-culting' and perhaps a bit sensitive to certain issues.
@I-amPneuma8 does have a definite tendency to lead with his chin. He has being doing it for a long time and never hangs around to discuss anything in depth, he usually dumps an antagonistic post and then disappears for months.
In his opening post on this thread where (once again) he is defending scientology, he actually wanted "names" and "time, place, form and event" of bad guys (lol) and that, to my way of thinking was unnecessary and almost guaranteed to create upset in anyone who is still 'de-culting' and perhaps a bit sensitive to certain issues.
Veda
Well-known member
I agree that rudeness was not the way to respond to the OP but to be fair to @ExitLeft (who is also a valued and fairly new member of ESMB)
@I-amPneuma8 does have a definite tendency to lead with his chin. He has being doing it for a long time and never hangs around to discuss anything in depth, he usually dumps an antagonistic post and then disappears for months.
In his opening post on this thread where (once again) he is defending scientology, he actually wanted "names" and "time, place, form and event" of bad guys (lol) and that, to my way of thinking was unnecessary and almost guaranteed to create upset in anyone who is still 'de-culting' and perhaps a bit sensitive to certain issues.
I've known several people like I-amP. The most meaningful part of their lives was when they were in Scientology. Then it was downhill from there. It's hard to get over that.
I am not as much concerned about I-amP as I am about lurkers who will be afraid to participate in ESMBR.
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I told you I was trouble
Suspended animation.
Well, we don't know whether @I-amPneuma8 is in that situation or not but @ExitLeft was definitely a lurker until very recently. He/she joined ESMBR just over a year ago but only started to post in the last few months.
It's all good though ... everyone means well I'm sure and these minor dramas are always going to happen, none of us are perfect.
Happy Easter everyone.
Karen#1
Well-known member
Okay I will jump in.
I-amPneuma8 and I have been in communication back channels. Our time on the Apollo overlapped.
We shared that life on the Apollo.
He reminded me that I audited him!
I-amPneuma8 is not part of any religion, philosophy or practice and has left it all behind.
I can state with a guarantee that if you went for a drink together and spent time with him, you would find him to be
likeable, affable and a good sport.
I-amPneuma8 and I have been in communication back channels. Our time on the Apollo overlapped.
We shared that life on the Apollo.
He reminded me that I audited him!
I-amPneuma8 is not part of any religion, philosophy or practice and has left it all behind.
I can state with a guarantee that if you went for a drink together and spent time with him, you would find him to be
likeable, affable and a good sport.