Why do some people keep saying things like "Scientology attacks" or Scientology Abuses" or Scientology does (whatever)?

I-amPneuma8

I-amPneuma8

Member
Scientology is NOT itself a living breathing entity. It is a INANIMATE collection of principles, axioms, technology, policies etc...in written form and on audio tapes etc which left "sitting" (so to speak) in cabinets or in bookcases or on shelves does NOTHING. Causes NO harm. Does NO good. A knife does not stab someone. A person does the stabbing.
It is NOT Scientology that commits the horrific crimes, overts (if I may use that word and not get backlash) wrongdoings and such against others...It's the individual living breathing human beings that commit the misuse and abuse and misunderstand, miscontrue the writings and hurt others. These individuals have names. Thus using the word Scientology as the blame is a GENERALITY. Those still active in Scientology consist of both good decent people and bad evil people (a.k.a David Miscarriage (yes, that's what I call him -an abomination) and his cohorts/cronies who emulate him. So to keep saying that "Scientology" does this or that is incorrect (in my opinion). I am NOT, I repeat NOT saying that bad things have not taken place or are not continuing to take place. I'm just saying that those bad things are being done by specific individuals. Just like the pedophile priests of the Catholic Church. It is NOT the entire Catholic Church itself that is to blame...just the specific bad apples in the religious organization. So folks...please be specific about WHO (name him/her/them) exactly in Scientology is doing what to whom. Am I making a valid point here in YOUR opinion? Thank you for listening and all comments welcome PEO or CON so long as they are expressed in a civil manner.
 
"The lure of the pseudoscientific vocabulary and promises of dianetics cannot but condemn thousands who are beginning to emerge from scientific illiteracy to a continuation of their susceptibility to word-magic and semantic hash."

S.I. HAYAKAWA 1951
 
I-amPneuma8 said:
Scientology is NOT itself a living breathing entity. It is a INANIMATE collection of principles, axioms, technology, policies etc...in written form and on audio tapes etc which left "sitting" (so to speak) in cabinets or in bookcases or on shelves does NOTHING. Causes NO harm. Does NO good. A knife does not stab someone. A person does the stabbing.
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When people here use the word "Scientology," they usually do so to refer to a corporation or other legal entity -- i.e., the Church of Scientology International (CSI, a corporation) -- or group of corporations or other legal entities -- i.e., CSI, the Religious Technology Center (RTC), etc. -- and not merely the philosophy.

Both the law and people generally recognize that such corporations and other legal entities can, in fact, "do" things. They are recognized as legal "persons" for many, albeit not all, purposes. We commonly say, for example, that the Catholic Church covered-up pedophilia.

Moreover, the law recognizes that such corporations and other legal entities are legally responsible for the acts and omissions of their employees and agents done within the course and scope of their agency and employment. Thus, we commonly say that the Catholic Church covered-up pedophilia because its human employees and agents covered up pedophilia.

Further, corporations and other legal entities can be held legally responsible for the acts and omissions of their independent contractors on the theories of negligent hiring, training, retention, etc.

Finally, even if we were to consider Scientology on a purely philosophical level, it is not unfair to hold it responsible, as a philosophy, for the natural and indeed inevitable results of its tenets such as Fair Game, Disconnection, etc. We have no problem saying that Nazism, as a philosophy, is evil because people who follow its tenets inevitably do evil. They do evil because that is what Nazism teaches and instructs.The same argument can be made regarding Scientology as a philosophy.

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Emphasis mine.

I-amPneuma8 said:
Scientology is NOT itself a living breathing entity. It is a INANIMATE collection of principles, axioms, technology, policies etc...in written form and on audio tapes etc which left "sitting" (so to speak) in cabinets or in bookcases or on shelves does NOTHING. Causes NO harm. Does NO good. A knife does not stab someone. A person does the stabbing.
It is NOT Scientology that commits the horrific crimes, overts (if I may use that word and not get backlash) wrongdoings and such against others...It's the individual living breathing human beings that commit the misuse and abuse and misunderstand, miscontrue the writings and hurt others. These individuals have names. Thus using the word Scientology as the blame is a GENERALITY. Those still active in Scientology consist of both good decent people and bad evil people (a.k.a David Miscarriage (yes, that's what I call him -an abomination) and his cohorts/cronies who emulate him. So to keep saying that "Scientology" does this or that is incorrect (in my opinion). I am NOT, I repeat NOT saying that bad things have not taken place or are not continuing to take place. I'm just saying that those bad things are being done by specific individuals. Just like the pedophile priests of the Catholic Church. It is NOT the entire Catholic Church itself that is to blame...just the specific bad apples in the religious organization. So folks...please be specific about WHO (name him/her/them) exactly in Scientology is doing what to whom. Am I making a valid point here in YOUR opinion? Thank you for listening and all comments welcome PEO or CON so long as they are expressed in a civil manner.
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I wouldn't name names in a negative way because the people mentioned could now be out themselves (and hopefully are) but yes, of course it was individuals that did harm based firmly on the policies and teachings of hubbard. We even harmed ourselves (based firmly on the policies and teachings of hubbard).

There are nasty people everywhere and people who are easily led (in or out of the cult) ... looking back I think we were all under incredible stress (I was SO) and our true characters were subdued to the point of being almost non-existent, I know for sure that mine was, I was scared stiff most of the time but hid it well.

I doubt many would argue that the cult rules, regulations, demands, extreme responses, policies and general vibe (which to this day are still based on hubbards highly unstable mental state) are damaging to people who believe they have no other choice but to remain within its grip but I have always accepted that I put myself in the position I found myself in (a cult!) and I had to get myself out of it, which I did ... but it was a hard lesson to learn at such a tender age and the ramifications are still to this day affecting my family relationships which I now know will never be mended.

:confused:
 
Am I making a valid point here in YOUR opinion?

I don't know what or where you are seeing this? Perhaps in a headline? There are so many articals, books, and court docs with time, place, form and event, I've never seen this as problematic.
 
I-amPneuma8 said:
Scientology is NOT itself a living breathing entity. It is a INANIMATE collection of principles, axioms, technology, policies etc...in written form and on audio tapes etc which left "sitting" (so to speak) in cabinets or in bookcases or on shelves does NOTHING. Causes NO harm. Does NO good. A knife does not stab someone. A person does the stabbing.
It is NOT Scientology that commits the horrific crimes, overts (if I may use that word and not get backlash) wrongdoings and such against others...It's the individual living breathing human beings that commit the misuse and abuse and misunderstand, miscontrue the writings and hurt others. These individuals have names. Thus using the word Scientology as the blame is a GENERALITY. Those still active in Scientology consist of both good decent people and bad evil people (a.k.a David Miscarriage (yes, that's what I call him -an abomination) and his cohorts/cronies who emulate him. So to keep saying that "Scientology" does this or that is incorrect (in my opinion). I am NOT, I repeat NOT saying that bad things have not taken place or are not continuing to take place. I'm just saying that those bad things are being done by specific individuals. Just like the pedophile priests of the Catholic Church. It is NOT the entire Catholic Church itself that is to blame...just the specific bad apples in the religious organization. So folks...please be specific about WHO (name him/her/them) exactly in Scientology is doing what to whom. Am I making a valid point here in YOUR opinion? Thank you for listening and all comments welcome PEO or CON so long as they are expressed in a civil manner.
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One problem is that Scientology, as designed by its founder, is one thing on the outside, another thing in the middle, and yet another thing at the center. It's secretive.

For example, in a 1967 Policy Letter, below, Hubbard instructed that "real powers are developed by tight conspiracies," and this was how Scientology operated.


From The Responsibility of Leaders:

"[The powers asks] 'What are those dead bodies doing at the door?' And if you [the subordinate] are clever, you never let it be known HE [the power] killed them - that weakens you and also hurts the power source. 'Well, boss about all those dead bodies, nobody at all will suppose you did it. She, over there, those pink legs sticking out, didn't like me.' 'Well,' he'll say if he really is a power, 'Why are you bothering me with it if it's done and you did it? Where's my blue ink?...' always push power in the direction of anyone on whose power you depend. It may be more money for the power, or more ease, or a snarling defense of the power to a critic, or even a dull thud of one of his enemies in the dark, or the glorious blaze of an enemy camp as a birthday surprise... Real powers are developed by tight conspiracies of this kind... And if they are right and also manage their man [the power] and keep him from collapsing through overwork, bad temper or bad data, a kind of juggernaut builds up."




Three items from the Auditor newspaper circa 1968:

ethicsbait.jpg




Overboarding.jpg




RacketExposed-e1541242217213.jpg


The Responsibility of Leaders HCOPL was unusually candid. It's customary, in Scientology, for "sensitive" instructions, from Hubbard, to be confidential or highly confidential.

Which poses a problem when one uses the word "Scientology," since so much of it is hidden or denied by Scientology.
 
I-amPneuma8 said:
Scientology is NOT itself a living breathing entity. It is a INANIMATE collection of principles, axioms, technology, policies etc...in written form and on audio tapes etc which left "sitting" (so to speak) in cabinets or in bookcases or on shelves does NOTHING. Causes NO harm. Does NO good. A knife does not stab someone. A person does the stabbing.
It is NOT Scientology that commits the horrific crimes, overts (if I may use that word and not get backlash) wrongdoings and such against others...It's the individual living breathing human beings that commit the misuse and abuse and misunderstand, miscontrue the writings and hurt others. These individuals have names. Thus using the word Scientology as the blame is a GENERALITY. Those still active in Scientology consist of both good decent people and bad evil people (a.k.a David Miscarriage (yes, that's what I call him -an abomination) and his cohorts/cronies who emulate him. So to keep saying that "Scientology" does this or that is incorrect (in my opinion). I am NOT, I repeat NOT saying that bad things have not taken place or are not continuing to take place. I'm just saying that those bad things are being done by specific individuals. Just like the pedophile priests of the Catholic Church. It is NOT the entire Catholic Church itself that is to blame...just the specific bad apples in the religious organization. So folks...please be specific about WHO (name him/her/them) exactly in Scientology is doing what to whom. Am I making a valid point here in YOUR opinion? Thank you for listening and all comments welcome PEO or CON so long as they are expressed in a civil manner.
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Both ISNOINews and I told you I was trouble have provided excellent answers. I would like to add another aspect of Scientology:

If one applies all of Scientology exactly as Hubbard has written it, you will and you must inevitably cause harm to others. It is built into Hubbard's system. Sure, if all the policies sit on a shelf, Scientology won't harm anyone, but that isn't the point.
 
I-amPneuma8 said:
Scientology is NOT itself a living breathing entity. It is a INANIMATE collection of principles, axioms, technology, policies etc...in written form and on audio tapes etc which left "sitting" (so to speak) in cabinets or in bookcases or on shelves does NOTHING. Causes NO harm. Does NO good. A knife does not stab someone. A person does the stabbing.
It is NOT Scientology that commits the horrific crimes, overts (if I may use that word and not get backlash) wrongdoings and such against others...It's the individual living breathing human beings that commit the misuse and abuse and misunderstand, miscontrue the writings and hurt others. These individuals have names. Thus using the word Scientology as the blame is a GENERALITY. Those still active in Scientology consist of both good decent people and bad evil people (a.k.a David Miscarriage (yes, that's what I call him -an abomination) and his cohorts/cronies who emulate him. So to keep saying that "Scientology" does this or that is incorrect (in my opinion). I am NOT, I repeat NOT saying that bad things have not taken place or are not continuing to take place. I'm just saying that those bad things are being done by specific individuals. Just like the pedophile priests of the Catholic Church. It is NOT the entire Catholic Church itself that is to blame...just the specific bad apples in the religious organization. So folks...please be specific about WHO (name him/her/them) exactly in Scientology is doing what to whom. Am I making a valid point here in YOUR opinion? Thank you for listening and all comments welcome PEO or CON so long as they are expressed in a civil manner.
Click to expand...

"Thus using the word Scientology as the blame is a GENERALITY. Those still active in Scientology consist of both good decent people and bad evil people (a.k.a David Miscarriage (yes, that's what I call him -an abomination) and his cohorts/cronies who emulate him. So to keep saying that "Scientology" does this or that is incorrect (in my opinion). I am NOT, I repeat NOT saying that bad things have not taken place or are not continuing to take place. I'm just saying that those bad things are being done by specific individuals. Just like the pedophile priests of the Catholic Church. It is NOT the entire Catholic Church itself that is to blame...just the specific bad apples in the religious organization. So folks...please be specific about WHO (name him/her/them) exactly in Scientology is doing what to whom."

I'll answer your question, the WHO is L Ron Hubbard hisself. That's the who. Why you might ask. Because he lead peoples down a path that if you read dianetics and another read it, both people could audit themselves to clear. And then later on he, Hubbard, changed the game to religion, and one could become a OT.

Nor a clear or a OT has been done, ever. All we got from the Hubbard was well formed rhetoric to keep the game alive. But in the end, no clears, nor OT's, and nobody returning from death.

So yes, scientology as a word does no harm, but it does, for the word itself connected with hubbard's teachings is false and does harm because people think they can go clear, OT, and return from death, the subject of scientology has meaning which turns out to be harmful. In other words, a complete waste of matter, energy, space and time, or life.
 
Bill said:
Both ISNOINews and I told you I was trouble have provided excellent answers. I would like to add another aspect of Scientology:

If one applies all of Scientology exactly as Hubbard has written it, you will and you must inevitably cause harm to others. It is built into Hubbard's system. Sure, if all the policies sit on a shelf, Scientology won't harm anyone, but that isn't the point.
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Yes, as the materials state, it is meant to be applied.

I-amPneauma8 has an over-all positive view of Scientology tends to remember the good in Scientology.

Others have an over-all negative view of Scientology and tend to remember the bad in Scientology.


 
Harold#1 said:
"The lure of the pseudoscientific vocabulary and promises of dianetics cannot but condemn thousands who are beginning to emerge from scientific illiteracy to a continuation of their susceptibility to word-magic and semantic hash."

S.I. HAYAKAWA 1951
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It turns out he Hayakawa was completely right, he should have used word rhetoric instead of word-magic, or to persuade, in my opinion.. Don't know if Hayakawa studied up on rhetoric, but whatever.

Hubbard did condemn thousands to his word magic in Dianetics, for any two people were supposedly able to clear themselves.

Bypassing scientology in history of it all, dianetics was revived by Mike Goldstein and a little later by Jefferson Hawkins when Jefferson ran the dianetics campaign to promote dianetics on national TV, which was successful and condemned "thousands who are beginning to emerge from scientific illiteracy to a continuation of their susceptibility to word-magic and semantic hash."

I myself was one of those who listened to the commercials on TV and fell for it.

Evidence is now more clearer in that lots of people have left, and very few are joining, the only thing we hear about is the poster who posted here.
 
Veda said:
Yes, as the materials state, it is meant to be applied.

I-amPneauma8 has an over-all positive view of Scientology tends to remember the good in Scientology.

Others have an over-all negative view of Scientology and tend to remember the bad in Scientology.
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I had some good experiences in Scientology. But when someone claims that there is "no bad" in Scientology itself, it is important to correct that statement.
 
Bill said:
I had some good experiences in Scientology. But when someone claims that there is "no bad" in Scientology itself, it is important to correct that statement.
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who gives a shit if one had a good experience in scientology, the bottom line is will one go OT and return from death. Nope, none so far. Complete waste of MEST, ARC, and KRC promoted by Hubbard.
 
Bill said:
I had some good experiences in Scientology. But when someone claims that there is "no bad" in Scientology itself, it is important to correct that statement.
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Very true.

Perhaps this link to a concise outline Scientology will be helpful to I-amPneuma8. Scroll down to second post. All this is part of Scientology , and all of it was meant to be applied,



 
Riddick said:
who gives a shit if one had a good experience in scientology, the bottom line is will one go OT and return from death. Nope, none so far. Complete waste of MEST, ARC, and KRC promoted by Hubbard.
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However, I believe it is important to understand and acknowledge how Scientology traps people. It is those fleeting "I feel good" moments that are part of Hubbard's trap.
 
Veda said:
Very true.

Perhaps this link to a concise outline Scientology will be helpful to I-amPneuma8. Scroll down to second post. All this is part of Scientology , and all of it was meant to be applied,



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I think you should dig deeper Vida, like I have done, this link:


I'm not saying you are wrong, but you haven't done a more through research like I have done. I've read all your posts.
 
Riddick said:
who gives a shit if one had a good experience in scientology, the bottom line is will one go OT and return from death. Nope, none so far. Complete waste of MEST, ARC, and KRC promoted by Hubbard.
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The idea is that, short of OT, there may - sometimes - be benefits, at least at some of the introductory levels.

The fact remains, though, that people handed over their minds for "laundering," and sometimes handed over their life savings, and even their children, because of the promise of OT.

At the beginning it sounded awfully good. Then, as time went by,
and Hubbard deteriorated psychologically, the "Bridge" became longer and longer,
with no actual OT in sight. ​
 
Bill said:
However, I believe it is important to understand and acknowledge how Scientology traps people. It is those fleeting "I feel good" moments that are part of Hubbard's trap.
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well, I said how he traps people, it's his rhetoric.
 
Riddick said:
well, I said how he traps people, it's his rhetoric.
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That isn't what trapped me ... I was originally trapped enticed because I trusted my best friend who had become a scientologist virtually overnight. I didn't want to lose her, she was important to me (we are still friends). Gradually the cult glue caught me firmly until I decided it was ''safe" to finally flick it off, but rhetoric played a minor part throughout the whole experience.

I have no idea why my friend got sucked in ... that may have been down to rhetoric.


:confused:
 
Harold#1 said:
"The lure of the pseudoscientific vocabulary and promises of dianetics cannot but condemn thousands who are beginning to emerge from scientific illiteracy to a continuation of their susceptibility to word-magic and semantic hash."

S.I. HAYAKAWA 1951
Click to expand...

And another item for that:

Fox et. al. - An Experimental Investigation of Hubbard's Engram Hypothesis (Dianetics)

An Experimental Investigation of Hubbard's Engram Hypothesis (Dianetics): a scientific rebuttal of Hubbard's engram theory
www.spaink.net www.spaink.net
 
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