Auditing effectiveness...Does it really work?

[Dex G]

DUDE - With this post and the last posts before it, you have not directed your vitriol at anyone in particular; IMO you are triggering a lot of people who have said nothing to you, about you, or about this thread, etc.

Rude! That alone makes me agree with the other's posting contrary to yours, or inquisitively as to qualifications.

Let's not make people block other people this first month in, eh? So let's take a step back, take a deep breath and chill the fuck out.

Some people remain anonymous because of 'reasons', as much as they might like to be able to do otherwise.

-No One

This was really funny, I got notifications saying "no one replied to your post", and at first I thought I was being told "your post was so sucky that nobody responded", then I saw that was your ESMB Redux name; Makes me think about using "Everyone" as a name here, just to surprise people in their notifications

 

[Bill]

I'm sorry, I haven't seen your question, what was it? Rudiments were an Alan Walter contribution. Sometimes they were helpful and appropriate, but mostly they were used to key out and get out of the way the issues and problems that really mattered to you so that the focus could be on the zillion irrelevant subjects of the grade chart.

I don't care if people use some (or all) of Hubbard's "tech". I do object to the promises of results which they cannot and do not deliver.

From everything I've experienced and heard, none of Hubbard's "tech" produces results better than Placebo Effect and until some believer submits to real scientific testing, I will continue to disbelieve the various claimed results from Hubbard's "tech".

You, Dex, amuse me. We have seen, many times here, people who come and say "Hubbard was wrong but I have fixed it and my 'tech' works!!"

But no proof, just like Hubbard's no proof and every other believer's no proof. It is funny.

 

[Dex G]

I don't care if people use some (or all) of Hubbard's "tech". I do object to the promises of results which they cannot and do not deliver.

From everything I've experienced and heard, none of Hubbard's "tech" produces results better than Placebo Effect and until some believer submits to real scientific testing, I will continue to disbelieve the various claimed results from Hubbard's "tech".

You, Dex, amuse me. We have seen, many times here, people who come and say "Hubbard was wrong but I have fixed it and my 'tech' works!!"

But no proof, just like Hubbard's no proof and every other believer's no proof. It is funny.

That's not exactly what I'm saying, but somewhat close. And in my book, anyone "demanding proof" is simply unobjectively pissing on somebody. I've had hundreds of participants who are more than satisfied with the "proof" of what was accomplished through sessions with me. I have no use for anyone with your attitude. Your comment is utterly irrelevant, but you'll get the obligatory "attaboys" from your biased choir to whom you are preaching, and feel important and accepted, which is your only reason for posting such tripe.

 

[Bill]

That's not exactly what I'm saying, but somewhat close. And in my book, anyone "demanding proof" is simply unobjectively pissing on somebody. I've had hundreds of participants who are more than satisfied with the "proof" of what was accomplished through sessions with me. I have no use for anyone with your attitude. Your comment is utterly irrelevant, but you'll get the obligatory "attaboys" from your biased choir to whom you are preaching, and feel important and accepted, which is your only reason for posting such tripe.

Now, now! Try to calm down. Take deep breaths...

I totally understand your attitude. Hubbard ranted about "demand for proof" as well, so you are following in his footsteps.

Try to understand what I said. Try. I said I have no problem with people using some or all of Hubbard's "tech". That means, since you seem to not understand, I don't care if you are doing what you are doing.

I also said I do object to people who promise results they cannot and will not deliver. Is that what you are doing? If you are promising results, then you DO have to provide proof that you DO produce those results or it's all just a scam.

Do you promise specific results? Do you also provide proof that you DO produce those specific results? Or are you scamming people, like Hubbard?

 

[Glenda]

Intermission!

One of the choir will bring in some lovely fresh oranges soon...

My attitude probably does suck. I strive to be of zero use to those that seek value in others for their own self-satisfying purposes.

 

[stratty]

That's not exactly what I'm saying, but somewhat close. And in my book, anyone "demanding proof" is simply unobjectively pissing on somebody. I've had hundreds of participants who are more than satisfied with the "proof" of what was accomplished through sessions with me. I have no use for anyone with your attitude. Your comment is utterly irrelevant, but you'll get the obligatory "attaboys" from your biased choir to whom you are preaching, and feel important and accepted, which is your only reason for posting such tripe.

I was conflicted as to whether I should award your last post a LOL or a poop. In the end I settled for the poop because of your superior and patronising attitude.

Apparently 'in your book', anyone demanding proof is 'unobjectively pissing on somebody'. So should we all simply take your word for it that your faux scientology processing actually produces permanent positive results before we buy some of what it is that you sell?

 

[Glenda]

Hi @MAQ

Just checking in with you to see how you are doing?

I hope you are not too overwhelmed and fed-up with all the noise on your thread. Thank you for starting this thread and asking some really sensible questions.

 

[Dex G]

Now, now! Try to calm down. Take deep breaths...

I totally understand your attitude. Hubbard ranted about "demand for proof" as well, so you are following in his footsteps.

Try to understand what I said. Try. I said I have no problem with people using some or all of Hubbard's "tech". That means, since you seem to not understand, I don't care if you are doing what you are doing.

I also said I do object to people who promise results they cannot and will not deliver. Is that what you are doing? If you are promising results, then you DO have to provide proof that you DO produce those results or it's all just a scam.

Do you promise specific results? Do you also provide proof that you DO produce those specific results? Or are you scamming people, like Hubbard?

Go to my website, read the testimonials. I'm not going to post a link to my website and be accused of self-promoting. If you're being objective, the testimonials should suffice; if not, you are making my point.

 

[Dex G]

Hi!

I am new here and need some information regarding dianetics & its effectiveness in treating mental problems like anxiety, OCD, insomnia, trauma etc. It would really help me to decide whether to go for auditing sessions if you guys could answer the following questions. Feel free to share your all your opinions and experiences with dianetics:

1. Does it really work or is it just a hoax? If it works, are the results permanent?
2. How long does it normally take for a PC to become clear?
3. Do they start with self-analysis before starting the actual auditing sessions? How long do the self-analysis sessions last?
4. Could you just sign-up for auditing sessions as a form of therapy or do they force you to join the church of scientology at some point?
5. From what i have seen, they ask you to re-experience your traumatic memories (engrams) over and over again. Does it make you feel annoyed at some point? Do they have any coping strategies if someone gets emotionally overwhelmed while doing so?
6. They ask for very detailed descriptions of the incidents. What if someone experienced something so drastic earlier in their lives that they just dont feel comfortable explaining the incident in detail? Do they offer any alternative strategies for that?
7. Do they follow any client confidentiality policy in their code of ethics?
8. An auditing session looks quite similar to abreaction therapy in general psychology. What makes it different from classical psychotherapy?
9. What do TRs entail? Are they helpful in terms of improving mental health or are they mostly targeted towards skill development?

I have been suffering from anxiety, OCD, insomnia & fibromyalgia for quite a few years. One of my acquaintances told me about dianetics. Some people have recommeded EFT (Emotional Freedon Technique or tapping). I need to decide between the two and this forum is just what i was looking for to get some valid information. I am pretty much already familiar with dark side of scientology. What i am looking for here is to get an opinion about the benefits & its efficacy in treating mental conditions, if there is any!


Thanks & regards!
MAQ

In regard to your question #9, try looking up Knowledgism and find Alan Walter's "Presence Process", it could prove very helpful, and stays closer to the eastern meditation technique that the original "OT-TR0" and "TR-0" were derived from.

 

[No One]

I'm quite at peace, albeit somewhat disappointed with the juvenile attempts to discredit me. And "being genuine" while not disclosing your identity are mutually exclusive. Be real.

I've only seen you discrediting yourself here, with your poor attitude and generalizations, throwing a few posters who either pressed you for answers or disagreed with you - with the rest of us who post UTR into the same box together.

I never heard of any Dax, and I haven't seen a link to your writing or website, I may have missed it on another thread?

 

[No One]

Common sense would dictate that when attacking another's credibility, one would be transparent about his own credibility. Sorry to see you stooping to asserting that I'm referring to the majority of people in this forum to turn others against me, when clearly I'm addressing the few who would discredit me behind their pseudonyms. Think it through before you speak.

Noooo... that is how you wrote it.

 

[stratty]

I've only seen you discrediting yourself here, with your poor attitude and generalizations, throwing a few posters who either pressed you for answers or disagreed with you - with the rest of us who post UTR into the same box together.

I never heard of any Dax, and I haven't seen a link to your writing or website, I may have missed it on another thread?

He says he doesn't want to post his website URL here because he'll be accused of 'promoting his stuff', so I'll do it for him. You can find it here. Make up your own mind. Looks like another wanna-be 'spiritual' guru to me but ymmv.

 

[No One]

Did anyone one of you seek out a psychologist and tell them everything that was on your heart without the fear of being found out about?

I did, and let them know right up front how I felt and how just speaking with them was taboo in my past and that I was trying to break a barrier to get through some major anxiety.

Open told everything I wanted to... all came out well. Never found out about, never pushed... got some excellent homework too.

I will go back when I have more time.

It was healthy for me.

On the other hand my partner needed to go through a few people before they found the right one that they felt they could talk to.

Good Luck!

 

[No One]

He says he doesn't want to post his website here because he'll be accused of 'promoting his stuff', so I'll do it for him. You can find it here. Make up your own mind. Looks like another wanna-be 'spiritual' guru to me but ymmv.

Thanks Stratty <3 Also, there is a place for that a freezone section, right? Maybe he can put it in there?

 

[Bill]

Go to my website, read the testimonials. I'm not going to post a link to my website and be accused of self-promoting. If you're being objective, the testimonials should suffice; if not, you are making my point.

Thank you. Your only "proof" is cherry-picked "success stories". Just like Hubbard. I can assume you'll take that as a compliment.

 

[Dex G]

Thank you. Your only "proof" is cherry-picked "success stories". Just like Hubbard. I can assume you'll take that as a compliment.

Thanks for making my point. You are absolutely invested in being dismissive here. "Cherry-picked"? That's a flat-out lie. These testimonials are honest and heartfelt, sent to me by my participants, and I post every all of them on my website- I don't "cherry-pick" selectively. And as to saying I'm "just like Hubbard", you expose and embarrass yourself. Since you can't or won't retrain your tendency to be utterly childish and intentionally offensive toward me, and the admin here finds that acceptable, then from this point forward, I'm done with you, I won't respond any further to your provocations.

 

[No One]

Thanks for making my point. You are absolutely invested in being dismissive here. "Cherry-picked"? That's a flat-out lie. These testimonials are honest and heartfelt, sent to me by my participants, and I post every all of them on my website- I don't "cherry-pick" selectively. And as to saying I'm "just like Hubbard", you expose and embarrass yourself. Since you can't or won't retrain your tendency to be utterly childish and intentionally offensive toward me, and the admin here finds that acceptable, then from this point forward, I'm done with you, I won't respond any further to your provocations.

@Dex G

I would be interested in your experience in the official COS, what happened, and why you left.

Maybe sometime you could tell that story. Glad my avatar gave you a laugh =)

-No One

 

[Pseudonym]

For lurkers and people passing by due to this thread topic is about scientology and scientology knockoffs.
Warning Signs

Potentially unsafe groups or leaders "come off very nice at first, they go for vulnerable people who are looking for answers, lonely, what you'd call 'normal people.' They're very good at what they do and can get people to believe anything. You might think you'd never get taken in, but don't bet on it. "

-- Margaret Singer, Ph.D.​

By Rick Ross, Expert Consultant and Intervention Specialist

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.

1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.
4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.
8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".
9. The group/leader is always right.
10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.

1. Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.
2. Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.
3. Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".
4. Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.
5. Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.
6. Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.
7. A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.
8. Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.
9. Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.
10. Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.

Ten signs of a safe group/leader.

1. A safe group/leader will answer your questions without becoming judgmental and punitive.
2. A safe group/leader will disclose information such as finances and often offer an independently audited financial statement regarding budget and expenses. Safe groups and leaders will tell you more than you want to know.
3. A safe group/leader is often democratic, sharing decision making and encouraging accountability and oversight.
4. A safe group/leader may have disgruntled former followers, but will not vilify, excommunicate and forbid others from associating with them.
5. A safe group/leader will not have a paper trail of overwhelmingly negative records, books, articles and statements about them.
6. A safe group/leader will encourage family communication, community interaction and existing friendships and not feel threatened.
7. A safe group/leader will recognize reasonable boundaries and limitations when dealing with others.
8. A safe group/leader will encourage critical thinking, individual autonomy and feelings of self-esteem.
9. A safe group/leader will admit failings and mistakes and accept constructive criticism and advice.
10. A safe group/leader will not be the only source of knowledge and learning excluding everyone else, but value dialogue and the free exchange of ideas.

Don't be naïve, develop a good BS Detector.
You can protect yourself from unsafe groups and leaders by developing a good BS detector. Check things out, know the facts and examine the evidence. A safe group will be patient with your decision making process. If a group or leader grows angry and anxious just because you want to make an informed and careful decision before joining; beware.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

.

THINGS THAT HELP SPIRITUAL LEADERS ATTRACT SPIRITS

(spiritual stuff)



THINGS THAT DON'T HELP SPIRITUAL LEADERS ATTRACT SPIRITS
(stuff like this)

DALAI LAMA
. . . and so we must rise above the human condition and
continue to love our fellow man despite what they have done to us.

SOMEONE IN CROWD
Hey, Lama! My sister-in-law went to see you for healing
and even donated 25,000 dollars to your new temple--but now
they increased the dosage of her anti-psychotic medication.
So obviously your shit don't work.

DALAI LAMA
Fuck You!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.




​

 

[SouthernCanuck]

"DALAI LAMA
Fuck You!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

OMG this picture will stay with me a while