Psychology/Psychiatry.

The_Fixer

Well-known member
Not quite sure where to park this one, but this seems like a likely choice.

Caught this clip today regarding the American Psychological Association (APA) and the path it has been wandering down.


So, being a little intrigued by this, I decided to track down the full interview. It's rather long (a little under 3 hours), but included it for those who wish to follow it further.


Gad Saad also made a little reaction video about the woman who has been currently selected to be their president. Makes out to be quite the horror story.


All I can say is that this profession is devolving into a malignant cult in themselves now as the rabies woke infection takes firm hold.

It's an odd day when I find myself agreeing with L Ron Hubbard on something. This is coincidental. I highly doubt he would have seen this one coming though. Accidental prophet....
 
Not quite sure where to park this one, but this seems like a likely choice.

Caught this clip today regarding the American Psychological Association (APA) and the path it has been wandering down.


So, being a little intrigued by this, I decided to track down the full interview. It's rather long (a little under 3 hours), but included it for those who wish to follow it further.


Gad Saad also made a little reaction video about the woman who has been currently selected to be their president. Makes out to be quite the horror story.


All I can say is that this profession is devolving into a malignant cult in themselves now as the rabies woke infection takes firm hold.

It's an odd day when I find myself agreeing with L Ron Hubbard on something. This is coincidental. I highly doubt he would have seen this one coming though. Accidental prophet....
When I was auditing people on the lower levels in the 1970's I considered myself in a role similar to a psychologist - but senior and better! Compared to the current trend if that is where it is going as noted in the "Shorts" clip maybe I was right! Good old time religion - your needle if floating. :bravo:
 
Thanks for the OP. Shocking. Horrifying. Now officially a "fake practice."
Yes it was certainly one of the rising stars for mental health that was showing much promise.
In the comments section, there were quite a few claiming to be part of the profession that were somewhat aghast about it all and some of them quit the association as a result.

Does this also mean that scientology will be a viable alternative now by default? I certainly hope not, but where would one look now for help that does not destroy?
 
In psychology the term Self-actualization has some similarites to the stated or implied benefits of the State of Clear, those being no regrets about the past, no unwanted attitudes, emotions, mentally caused sensations or pains and so on. The difficulty would be maintaining that state of awareness or condition as life continues with its ups and downs. Hubbard and associates came up with his OT levels and other procedures as follow ups. I don't know if psychology has any follow ups or maintenance or a person just moves on with or without some additional philosophy, practice , religion or some such. Likewise for individuals who blew scn.

Self-actualization is the psychological process of realizing, fulfilling, and expressing one's unique potential, talents, and capabilities to become the most authentic and complete version of oneself.

Key Characteristics of Self-Actualized Individuals
Psychological research—from Maslow's classic observations to modern updates by psychologists like Scott Barry Kaufman—identifies several common traits in self-actualized people: [1, 2]
  • Accurate perception of reality: Viewing situations objectively, rationally, and without heavy distortion from fear or bias. [1, 2]
  • Acceptance of self and others: A deep, non-judgmental embrace of human nature, imperfections, and diversity. [1, 2]
  • Autonomy and independence: Driven by internal values, intrinsic motivation, and purpose rather than a need for external validation, fame, or social conformity. [1, 2, 3]
  • Freshness of appreciation: A continuous, childlike capacity to find wonder, gratitude, and joy in everyday experiences. [1, 2]
  • Peak experiences: Frequent, transcendent moments of deep absorption, awe, and a temporary loss of self-consciousness. [1, 2, 3]
  • Humanitarian focus: A strong sense of social interest, compassion, empathy, and commitment to solving meaningful problems.
 
So, being a little intrigued by this, I decided to track down the full interview. It's rather long (a little under 3 hours), but included it for those who wish to follow it further.


I'm interested in the subject, but didn't have close to 3 hours to watch a video. I created an AI-generated summary.



Summary of “Dad Saves America” Interview with Andrew Hartz, Founder of the Open Therapy Institute​

Paragraph 1: Premise and Introduction. The host welcomes Andrew Hartz, a clinical psychologist and founder of the Open Therapy Institute, to discuss what he sees as ideological capture of the mental health field. Hartz argues that over the past 10 to 15 years, strident political activism has entered psychology and psychotherapy, to the point that it harms patients and excludes those who need help. He recently wrote about this in the Wall Street Journal.

Paragraph 2: The APA Division 39 Conference. Hartz illustrates his concern by citing the agenda of a recent American Psychological Association division conference, which included a keynote on “family abolition,” a talk on drag and queer theory in psychoanalysis offered for continuing education credit, and topics such as colonialism, white supremacy, and eugenics. He notes that topics like therapy, research, and evidence were absent from the call for submissions. He argues that the people who run training programs, journals, and professional bodies are often the ones most committed to this orientation, even if they may be a minority of practicing clinicians (he guesses roughly a quarter).

Paragraph 3: Training Pipeline and Why the Institute Exists. Hartz describes how difficult it is to get through clinical training while disagreeing with these ideas, and says his own training included many sessions he found hateful and unfocused on patients. He also points to blind spots, such as receiving no lectures on religion, Christian patients, or men’s issues despite a PhD of roughly eight years. The Open Therapy Institute was founded because patients who felt discriminated against, self-censored, or concerned about men’s issues had nowhere to be referred, and therapists who disagreed with the dominant orientation lacked community.

Paragraph 4: Credentials, Tracks, and Choosing a Therapist. Hartz explains the difference between psychiatrists (MDs who prescribe), psychologists, and other psychotherapists, noting that therapist training is highly variable, from two-year master’s degrees to eight-year doctorates. Academic tracks emphasize research and publication, while clinical tracks emphasize seeing patients, and he laments how rarely programs excel at both. For choosing a therapist, he suggests looking at training depth, trusting your own sense of whether you are making progress, and leaving a therapy that isn’t working, since people often stay in bad therapy far too long.

Paragraph 5: Setting Goals and Realistic Expectations. Hartz stresses that clients should begin therapy with at least one concrete, therapy-appropriate goal, such as reducing anxiety that interferes with work, managing a temper, or addressing depression, rather than goals like changing the world. He emphasizes that therapy cannot eliminate sadness, anxiety, or anger, and that believing you should never feel discomfort tends to generate mental illness. He gives the example of ADHD therapy, which resembles executive coaching and skills training rather than simply talking, and notes people often want a silver bullet.

Paragraph 6: Does Therapy Work, and Why Are Rates Rising? Responding to critiques like Abigail Shrier’s Bad Therapy, Hartz says therapy is among the best-supported claims in the social sciences, backed by thousands of randomized trials and hundreds of meta-analyses. He believes much of the rise in reported mental illness reflects expanded diagnosis, drawing a parallel with autism, along with secondary gains like extra test time and the appeal of a single explanation for diffuse struggles. He acknowledges, however, that bad and non-evidence-based practices are common, and cites plausible drivers of real distress such as social isolation, social media, loss of religious faith, and diminished childhood independence.

Paragraph 7: Trauma, Prosperity, and Mortality. The discussion turns to “trauma creep” and a so-called wealth disease. Hartz argues the mind has a natural healing capacity, rejects the idea that trauma is an unhealable wound passed down forever, and criticizes social media therapy content as often counter-therapeutic. He speculates that as material comforts grow, suffering becomes harder to pin on concrete causes, so people reach for explanations like capitalism or diagnoses. On mortality, he notes fear of death peaks in the 30s and 40s, and that what people fear about death often mirrors what they fear about life, citing the book of Job as an example of living well amid fundamental mystery.

Paragraph 8: Agency, Work, and the Welfare Trap. Both men agree agency, meaning how you respond to circumstances even when you can’t control them, is central to mental health. Hartz describes patients trapped by disability benefit cliffs, where working would cost them benefits, and notes employment is among the most effective interventions even for people with severe mental illness. He explains that behavior-first approaches (“fake it till you make it”) help some people, particularly ruminators, while avoidant people need help processing emotions, so advice must be individualized.

Paragraph 9: Accommodation, Microaggressions, and Evidence. Hartz argues that well-meaning accommodation, such as extra test time for anxiety or trigger warnings, can reward and entrench symptoms. He criticizes microaggression training he was required to attend, describing a framework in which accused parties are always guilty and in which any form of address could be a microaggression, and says some proponents dismiss the need for evidence altogether. He believes this fosters paranoia and conflict without evidence of benefit.

Paragraph 10: Gender in the Profession. The host asks whether the field’s shift to roughly 80% female in training pipelines contributes to its ideological drift. Hartz says he thinks some stereotypical bad therapy is supportive but unchallenging, and that the field would benefit from more assertive approaches. He suggests activist rhetoric gains traction because it is couched in the language of fairness and equality, and that conservatives could better frame their ideas as being about helping people. The host’s claims here are largely generalizations and a cited poll, and Hartz’s agreement is partial and hedged.

Paragraph 11: The Lindsay Clancy Case and Psychosis. The conversation addresses the Lindsay Clancy mistrial and the legal insanity defense. Hartz explains that psychosis is a break from shared reality involving hallucinations, delusions, or disorganized behavior, that “insanity” is a legal rather than clinical term, and that hearing a voice alone would not be sufficient to negate responsibility. He says postpartum psychosis is linked to hormonal changes and genetic risk, not marital stress, that retrospective assessment of mental state is extremely hard, and that he worries about unfalsifiable brief-psychosis claims becoming a loophole. He also criticizes online sympathy that fills gaps with unsupported stories.

Paragraph 12: Social Media, Addiction, and Collective Illusions. Hartz describes social media as distorting people’s perception of what others believe, and discusses the “collective illusions” or spiral-of-silence dynamic where people self-censor because they wrongly assume they’re in the minority. He recommends building coalitions rather than staying silent or fighting alone. On addiction, he argues underlying vulnerabilities such as loneliness and avoidance drive heavy use, referencing the Rat Park experiments, and concludes that building a fuller life is the best protection.

Paragraph 13: Masculinity, Male Strengths, and Young Men. A major theme is that society struggles to articulate male strengths while readily naming female ones, leaving boys confused about what a good masculine identity looks like. Hartz says most of his own patients are men, that the shortage of male therapists makes it harder for men to find help, and that young men are split between performative Andrew Tate-style masculinity and a feminized alternative that feels insincere. His advice is to let masculinity emerge authentically rather than perform it, and to trust that who you are has value.

Paragraph 14: Narcissism, Meaning, and Defining Mental Health. Hartz notes a self-focus trend, especially around appearance on social media, and endorses Acceptance and Commitment Therapy’s two pillars: allow the full range of emotions and have a source of meaning beyond your own mental health. He explains that mental illness is defined by impairment and significantly heightened distress, that the boundary is fuzzy, that the DSM changes by committee, and that notable gaps exist, such as the lack of an anger disorder.

Paragraph 15: Sexuality and Gender Dysphoria. The host presses Hartz on homosexuality, paraphilias, and gender dysphoria, using strongly worded framings (comparing a trans identity to believing one is a car, describing treatments as mutilation). Hartz responds more cautiously, noting that how you engage a person with a delusion differs from how you evaluate treatments. He argues the field adopted an affirm-and-medicalize consensus around 2017 to 2018 with weak research behind it, criticizes the lack of evidence and the “living son or dead daughter” framing to parents, and raises questions about whether it is a mental disorder, whether the treatments work, and what dead-naming reactions suggest.

Paragraph 16: Reform, Optimism, and Advice for Aspiring Therapists. Hartz argues conservatives and moderates who “cut and run” from institutions lose every battle, and that the profession is still salvageable because most clinicians are not activists but are unwilling to fight political battles. He explains that solo practitioners cannot easily build a viewpoint-diverse practice, so a collective like the Open Therapy Institute is necessary. For students, he recommends religious programs or places like Hillsdale, proposes a ranking of how activist programs are, notes that faking agreement through training undermines therapeutic skill, and says each person must weigh price, location, training quality, and tolerance for ideology.

Paragraph 17: Closing Reflections. Asked about his role in the American story, Hartz says it broke his heart that psychologists, who could have helped a polarized country become more grounded and able to talk to one another, instead amplified some of its worst trends. He hopes the Open Therapy Institute can help bring the best of psychology to bear on helping people become less dysregulated, more authentic, and more connected to meaning and community.


Top 25 Takeaways​

  1. Hartz contends political activism has increasingly displaced clinical focus in professional bodies like the APA and in training programs.
  2. He believes roughly a quarter of therapists are strongly committed to this orientation, but they disproportionately control institutions, journals, and training.
  3. The Open Therapy Institute was created to give patients a place to find non-ideological therapists and to give like-minded therapists community.
  4. Therapist training varies enormously (2 to 8 years, different degrees), so credentials are an imperfect signal of quality.
  5. Academic and clinical tracks in psychology differ, and few programs excel at both research and practice.
  6. Start therapy with a specific, therapy-appropriate goal such as anxiety, depression, anger, or substance problems.
  7. Evaluate whether you’re making progress, and leave a therapy that isn’t working.
  8. Therapy cannot eliminate normal emotions; believing you should never feel sadness or anxiety can itself produce mental illness.
  9. Some conditions, like ADHD, are treated with skills training and organization rather than talk alone.
  10. Hartz states therapy is supported by thousands of randomized trials and hundreds of meta-analyses.
  11. He attributes much of the rise in reported mental illness to expanded diagnosis rather than a true baseline increase, though he acknowledges real contributing stressors.
  12. Possible real drivers of distress he lists include isolation, social media, lost childhood independence, declining religious participation, and political division.
  13. He argues the mind has a natural healing capacity and that “trauma” is often overextended into an unhealable-wound narrative.
  14. Prosperity may make suffering feel more diffuse, leading people to hunt for causes like capitalism or diagnoses.
  15. Fear of death tends to mirror the fears people have about their own lives, such as loss, meaninglessness, and isolation.
  16. Personal agency, meaning control over how you respond, is central to mental health.
  17. Work and employment are among the most effective interventions, and benefit cliffs can trap people in dependence.
  18. Behavior-first strategies work for ruminators, while avoidant people need help processing emotions, so advice must be individualized.
  19. Over-accommodating symptoms (extra test time, trigger warnings) can reinforce them rather than help.
  20. Hartz criticizes microaggression frameworks as unfalsifiable, dysfunctional, and lacking evidence of benefit.
  21. Psychosis is a break from shared reality; hearing a voice alone does not negate responsibility, and “insanity” is a legal rather than clinical concept.
  22. Postpartum psychosis is tied to hormonal and genetic factors rather than marital stress, and retrospective assessment of mental state is very difficult.
  23. Social media distorts perceptions of consensus, and heavy use is often driven by underlying gaps in life; building a fuller life (the “Rat Park” lesson) is protective.
  24. Hartz argues society struggles to articulate male strengths, leaving boys confused, and advises authentic rather than performative masculinity.
  25. He urges people not to abandon institutions, advises aspiring therapists to consider religious or less politicized programs, and hopes the field can be reformed from within rather than abandoned.
 
Thanks for the OP. Shocking. Horrifying. Now officially a "fake practice."


The APA has obviously been corrupted, and that IS shocking and horrifying. :ohmy:

I wouldn't call psychology a "fake practice". It does have some methods that are science-based, and according to the guy being interviewed, "the profession is still salvageable because most clinicians are not activists but are unwilling to fight political battles".
And his own organization, "The Open Therapy Institute was created to give patients a place to find non-ideological therapists and to give like-minded therapists community."
 
Does this also mean that scientology will be a viable alternative now by default? I certainly hope not, but where would one look now for help that does not destroy?


It depends on what someone needs help with. There are multiple methods to help someone with PTSD, backed by good science.
I know a woman who reversed her CPTSD (Complex PTSD) very quickly using Clinical EFT. The University of South Florida (USF) was researching a method back around 2012 called Accelerated Resolution Therapy and reversed PTSD in some patients in an hour.
 
Here's where all of this leads...

One: it's the doors falling off of airplanes meaning that as DEI corrodes merit the competency level of medical professionals will plummet. After all, metrics are "racist".

Two: woe to the whities getting service. "Equity" means that "black and brown bodies" take precedent. My guess is that whites will even get punished on purpose with abuse. In addition, the financial charges, etc., will be weaponized as well. Denials and such will favor whites while acceptance will favor all others, aka "POC". If you think this is a stretch then recall the Maui fires of 2023 where M. Kaleo Manuel, then deputy director of the Hawaii Commission on Water Resource Management, delayed the request for water to fight the fires for several hours while asking the developer to first consult a downstream indigenous taro farmer and consider broader water equity issues.
 
The APA has obviously been corrupted, and that IS shocking and horrifying. :ohmy:

I wouldn't call psychology a "fake practice". It does have some methods that are science-based, and according to the guy being interviewed, "the profession is still salvageable because most clinicians are not activists but are unwilling to fight political battles".
And his own organization, "The Open Therapy Institute was created to give patients a place to find non-ideological therapists and to give like-minded therapists community."
Perhaps I should reframe my original comment and state that cults are taking over the profession.

It is part of the activist handbooks that the best way to success is by the slow march through the institutions.
 
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I'm interested in the subject, but didn't have close to 3 hours to watch a video. I created an AI-generated summary.



Summary of “Dad Saves America” Interview with Andrew Hartz, Founder of the Open Therapy Institute​

<snipped>

Top 25 Takeaways​

  1. Hartz contends political activism has increasingly displaced clinical focus in professional bodies like the APA and in training programs.
  2. He believes roughly a quarter of therapists are strongly committed to this orientation, but they disproportionately control institutions, journals, and training.
  3. The Open Therapy Institute was created to give patients a place to find non-ideological therapists and to give like-minded therapists community.
  4. Therapist training varies enormously (2 to 8 years, different degrees), so credentials are an imperfect signal of quality.
  5. Academic and clinical tracks in psychology differ, and few programs excel at both research and practice.
  6. Start therapy with a specific, therapy-appropriate goal such as anxiety, depression, anger, or substance problems.
  7. Evaluate whether you’re making progress, and leave a therapy that isn’t working.
  8. Therapy cannot eliminate normal emotions; believing you should never feel sadness or anxiety can itself produce mental illness.
  9. Some conditions, like ADHD, are treated with skills training and organization rather than talk alone.
  10. Hartz states therapy is supported by thousands of randomized trials and hundreds of meta-analyses.
  11. He attributes much of the rise in reported mental illness to expanded diagnosis rather than a true baseline increase, though he acknowledges real contributing stressors.
  12. Possible real drivers of distress he lists include isolation, social media, lost childhood independence, declining religious participation, and political division.
  13. He argues the mind has a natural healing capacity and that “trauma” is often overextended into an unhealable-wound narrative.
  14. Prosperity may make suffering feel more diffuse, leading people to hunt for causes like capitalism or diagnoses.
  15. Fear of death tends to mirror the fears people have about their own lives, such as loss, meaninglessness, and isolation.
  16. Personal agency, meaning control over how you respond, is central to mental health.
  17. Work and employment are among the most effective interventions, and benefit cliffs can trap people in dependence.
  18. Behavior-first strategies work for ruminators, while avoidant people need help processing emotions, so advice must be individualized.
  19. Over-accommodating symptoms (extra test time, trigger warnings) can reinforce them rather than help.
  20. Hartz criticizes microaggression frameworks as unfalsifiable, dysfunctional, and lacking evidence of benefit.
  21. Psychosis is a break from shared reality; hearing a voice alone does not negate responsibility, and “insanity” is a legal rather than clinical concept.
  22. Postpartum psychosis is tied to hormonal and genetic factors rather than marital stress, and retrospective assessment of mental state is very difficult.
  23. Social media distorts perceptions of consensus, and heavy use is often driven by underlying gaps in life; building a fuller life (the “Rat Park” lesson) is protective.
  24. Hartz argues society struggles to articulate male strengths, leaving boys confused, and advises authentic rather than performative masculinity.
  25. He urges people not to abandon institutions, advises aspiring therapists to consider religious or less politicized programs, and hopes the field can be reformed from within rather than abandoned.
Thanks for that summary. I was mentally preparing to sit down and wade through it myself, but as you say, 3 hours is a pretty fair sort of commitment.

As for most practitioners not being willing to fight political battles, what can you say? It's definitely a diversionary chore, but much depends upon them pushing back or their whole profession will be lost to those who seek to legitimize madness and then finding themselves slaves to their ideology. with no options.
Seems to be a lose/lose scenario, but pushing back at least gives hope for the future.
 
I'm really good at what I do, and I've had many clients who did all or most of the Scn "bridge" before coming to me to actually directly address the things that really matter to and affect them. My perspective is that the approach and techniques are one of three prevailing factors that govern the outcome of therapy sessions. The other two, of equal importance are the passion, intention, skill and knowledge of the particular practitioner to see that the client gets what they need and want, and the passion/motivation/determination of the client to change from how they are to how they want to be. I also believe that who or what is good for one individual isn't necessarily the same for another. The approach and techniques may or may not resonate with you, and you may or may not resonate with the personality of the practitioner. In Scientology, psychiatry or whatever, sometimes people find that practitioner who is magical for them, and good things happen. One of Hubbard's volume of lies was in saying that anyone could train to become a good auditor. I've seen the most undeniable examples of how false that is. And while I can and have spoken about how wrong in general the principles and processes of Scientology are, there are those people who had great experiences with a particular auditor. The same can be said for practitioners of psychiatry, psychology, etc.The factors applying to the particular practitioner and client and how they match up is grossly unrecognized. Which is not to say that Scientology overall is ever going to be a great choice. But those good experiences have happened, mostly serving to show how prevalent factors other than approach and technique can be. And another factor is how well the approach and technique resonate with the individual. Little if any Scientology principles are objectively factual, but when a person's own perspective resonates with those ideas, they can readily shape the clay that is their "case" (i.e., feelings) to fit the structure of "engrams", "BT's", etc, the more they can work through their material in those forms, to some degree. The one salient point I saw in Dennis Stephens' "TROM" ("The Resolution of Mind") is that "case takes on the appearance you expect it to take"; if you come to buy into "engrams", you'll find "engrams", if you buy into "BT's", you'll "find" "BT's".
Besides it being true that what works for one person isn't necessarily what works for another, over time there is change, and sometimes what works for a person now no longer resonates at another time, and vice-versa.
 
Q
In Scientology, psychiatry or whatever, sometimes people find that practitioner who is magical for them, and good things happen. One of Hubbard's volume of lies was in saying that anyone could train to become a good auditor. I've seen the most undeniable examples of how false that is. And while I can and have spoken about how wrong in general the principles and processes of Scientology are, there are those people who had great experiences with a particular auditor. The same can be said for practitioners of psychiatry, psychology, etc.The factors applying to the particular practitioner and client and how they match up is grossly unrecognized.


There is a lot that can be criticized in the fields of psychology and psychiatry. The over-prescribing of psych drugs by psychiatrists is extremely destructive, IMO. But I know of instances where people had amazing experiences with psychologists or psychiatrists, including some ex-Scientologists in our community.

One of those instances is an amazing story on the original ESMB, one of my favorite threads in that forum:

​

 
Q



There is a lot that can be criticized in the fields of psychology and psychiatry. The over-prescribing of psych drugs by psychiatrists is extremely destructive, IMO. But I know of instances where people had amazing experiences with psychologists or psychiatrists, including some ex-Scientologists in our community.

One of those instances is an amazing story on the original ESMB, one of my favorite threads in that forum:

​

It’s very true and very, very unfortunate. How pharmaceutical drugs are wrongly and overly prescribed. It’s sad how where there is profit to be made, profit prevails. But it’s also true that each and every circumstance is unique, and sometimes the correct prescription is what keeps somebody from jumping out a window. Treating anyone or anything as “generic“ rather than recognizing the individuality is a formula for failure, as with Scientology’s grade chart. If there were generic people, and they happen to fit the generic description of the mind as given in Scientology, then they would have something. I’m sure this is often true in just about any form of therapy, being too invested in any model of the mind instead of simply being open to recognize what the individual is manifesting.
 
My perspective is that the approach and techniques are one of three prevailing factors that govern the outcome of therapy sessions. The other two, of equal importance are the passion, intention, skill and knowledge of the particular practitioner to see that the client , gets what they need and want, and the passion/motivation/determination of the client to change from how they are to how they want to be.


To a large degree, those factors are true for medical interventions as well, IMO, including the mindset of the client/patient. :yes:

And amongst those factors you mentioned, I would add the ability of the health practitioner (whether a Psych or an M.D.) to maximize the placebo effect as well.
 
To a large degree, those factors are true for medical interventions as well, IMO, including the mindset of the client/patient. :yes:

And amongst those factors you mentioned, I would add the ability of the health practitioner (whether a Psych or an M.D.) to maximize the placebo effect as well.

What about the eye of newt? And where does the goat's blood come in?
 
~
I'll admit it. I know next to nothing about psychiatrists or psychologists.

Except I chatted with a retired neighbor down the street a couple years ago.

I talked to an older semi-retired wealthy psychiatrist, who lives on my street down the block.​
I asked him if he did "talk therapy" with his patients anymore. He answered back: "We don't do ​
that anymore. They want us to use drugs nowadays." Seems like this is the trend nowadays.​
​
He deals with military veterans (PTSD) part-time as a kind gesture. He's unable to really "cure"​
them with any kind of talk therapy, so he just puts them on drugs permanently to sedate them​
apparently.​

---------------------------------------------------

I Asked AI today: How many times was Rob Reiner's (murderer) son in rehab or treated by psychiatrists or psychologists?​
​
AI: Rob Reiner’s son, Nick Reiner, was admitted to drug and mental health rehabilitation facilities at least 18 times.​
​
While public reports do not state an exact total number of individual visits with psychiatrists or psychologists, investigative details outline extensive psychiatric and psychological interventions throughout his life:​
​
• Early Childhood Interventions: Family friends reported that Nick exhibited severe behavioral outbursts beginning as early as age 11, which required immediate physical and psychological intervention.​
​
• Adolescent Rehabilitation: He entered his first residential treatment facility at age 15. By the time he turned 22, he had cycled through approximately 18 different substance abuse and residential rehabilitation programs across the United States.​
​
• Psychiatric Care and Conservatorship: Nick dealt with profound mental health challenges alongside his substance use disorder. In 2020, he was placed under a mental health conservatorship after being diagnosed with schizophrenia.​
​
• Recent Specialist Treatment: Leading up to December 2025, Nick was under the active, ongoing care of a licensed psychiatrist. During this period, he was treated at a specialized Los Angeles clinic focused on co-occurring mental health conditions and substance addictions, where doctors were actively modifying his prescription medications.​

---------------------------------------------------

The Reiners had all the money in the world to fix the son. Nothing worked. Nobody could do anything.

My question is . . . why?

Can anyone explain why I shouldn't just believe these practices to be "fake practices?" Just hourly
moneymaking professions with no accountability. This question always pops into my head when I
read threads like this. And the video about the new APA president makes me think they're all nuts,
frauds, or working a con.

Again, I know next to nothing about psychiatrists or psychologists. Just nothing.*

¯\_(ツ)_/¯



*Oh, one thing: Woody Allen has claimed to have spent over 20 years in psychoanalysis, and it’s been
a recurring theme in his films and interviews. In a 2015 interview with NPR, he said:

"I was in therapy for a long time. I went three, four times a week for many, ​
many years. And I made no progress, none. You know, I went in with ​
a problem and I came out with the same problem. Nothing changed."​
 
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~Can anyone explain why I shouldn't just believe these practices to be "fake practices?"

I'm not going to attempt to defend psychiatrists, because even though there are a handful of them that I like, I don't believe that the situation you described with Nick Reiner is rare. The side effects of the drugs they use can be horrible.

But with psychologists, while they are from the same home planet, they cannot prescribe drugs. I don't believe they should be judged as harshly.

When I get onto my laptop tomorrow I'll probably add onto this post, when it's easier to type and I'm more awake. It''s 1:15 a.m. for me now and I'm a few moments from entering Dreamland. :cool: :D
 
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