Why ex-members and never-in protesters fail to understand each other

[Karakorum]

I think most of the never-in protesters mean well. But in their actions, they tend to be preocuppied chiefly with the well-being of other never-ins: the 'potential recruits' or the 'public-at-large'. If they think about still-ins and current SO members, it is either as foes or as an afterthought.

We ex-scientologists tend to be preocuppied chiefly the well being of former members or the still-ins.
In that sense, I feel we and the never-in protesters are often talking past each other.

When we say "some forms of protest are bad", we mean that confrontational, hostile forms of protest make current members double-down and make it harder for them to leave. That it feeds into the siege-mentality Miscavige wants to spread.
By saying "there is no bad way to protest" I believe the never-in protesters mean that "there is no bad publicity", that anything that helps spread public awareness of scientology abuses among the general public is a good thing.

I think that is the main underlying misunderstanding and that this is what OSA is trying to use as a crowbar to pull us apart.

 

[I M Dex]

I wasn't aware of any rift between the two categories, but I can see how these can be disparate perspectives, the ex's having the commonality of the emotional and mental residue from the life spent invested in the soup, and the never-ins inspired by their own individual means of relating to the cult.

 

[Nosy_Creature]

Because they had different lives?

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

..

I think it's cool when a never-in learns a few Scientology words and then goes on a jihadi rampage against the cult. That's always fun, LOL.

But, I've also noticed the recent bizarre incipient trend of nouveau attacks that were aimed in the direction of stone-cold activists like Aaron Smith-Levin, Mike Rinder, Jon Atack and many other courageous and effective whistleblowers who "paved the way" for so many others to speak their mind and fight cult tyranny. Of course they opened the door for the never-in Scientology protesters too, but that fact has become invisible too often in the effort to lump hall of fame anti-scientology critics in the same muddy bucket as LA Cops, OSA, Danny Masterson and any other convenient villain they can recall.

At least this trend has not yet reached the deafening cry that Aaron, Mike, Jon and others "are literally worse than Adolph Hitler". LOL

I've been noticing a lot of zeitgeist disruption recently in the 'stop scientology abuses' village. I haven't given it any time to investigate, study or mull over--but I do notice it and sometimes wonder if this is possibly one of the very first (think operating system 2.0) times that OSA trolling, dead agenting and "third party" disruptions have ever been effective. All their previous efforts to shut down criticism and mocking of the cults insanity and sociopathic crimes have only resulted in that movement virally expanding into the media/internet MOUNTAINS that now exist. All OSA's treachery has only culminated in the humiliating crash in the number of active scientologists, which many now estimate to be just 20,000.

In that sense, OSA's contributions have actually been one of the most successful and debilitating/sustained attacks on Scientology that ever existed!

I saw a video earlier today--before reading this thread--that showed me a new perspective on new younger protesters trying to devalue, devalue & destroy older protesters who taught them the game. The subject in the video (israel, hamas, war, et al) is fully irrelevant to the point here. The phenomena is what matters. One can substitute virtually ANY social justice movement over the past century and see the concept clearly, without any concern to current world affairs. For example the greatest african american activists, scholars, authors and humanitarians have been under vicious attack from the new "woke" black movements (BLM, et al). Some of the most brilliant minds that ever tackled and began to resolve the horrific conditions that blacks now find themselves in (who are trapped within countless urban war-zone ghettos, aka "the hood") are the most viciously crucified. Such as Thomas Sowell. Anyone who finds his books or videos has found water in the desert.

Naturally, Thomas Sowell is but one (1) name in a very long list of extraordinarily successful black activists, authors and scholars who have been ruthlessly attacked by the newer generation of "woke" black radicals. One is permitted to be black and successful---but no one is allowed to be black and successful and also encouraging that African Americans need to start taking responsibility for their cultural demise, rather than promoting victimology and blaming "white racists" for every condition they refuse to address--even if the solution is well known and has splendidly proven to have worked.

Have a look at this video below and see if you might also notice some stunning parallels to the idiosyncratic ecosystem of Scientology critics/activists---and the new wave of "ultra-woke" who blindly fire live rounds at their own side.

What an ingenious strategy that would be for OSA, no? To get the most successful anti-cult activists mowed down with "friendly fire". It's a provocative idea, but not without good reasons to consider...

...​

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

I think never-ins fail to understand the paranoid fear that most members have of the OT materials, especially the OT3 materials, that will "kill you if you aren't ready for them", and they also tend to expect members to know all about the Xenu story when most of them haven't gotten that far on the bridge and haven't encountered it yet.

On the other hand, ex-members probably fail to grasp how funny the OT3 story is to never-ins (they believe THAT?) or how improbable it all is to anyone who's familiar with modern science (and geology in particular).

 

[koki]

..

I think it's cool when a never-in learns a few Scientology words and then goes on a jihadi rampage against the cult. That's always fun, LOL.

But, I've also noticed the recent bizarre incipient trend of nouveau attacks that were aimed in the direction of stone-cold activists like Aaron Smith-Levin, Mike Rinder, Jon Atack and many other courageous and effective whistleblowers who "paved the way" for so many others to speak their mind and fight cult tyranny. Of course they opened the door for the never-in Scientology protesters too, but that fact has become invisible too often in the effort to lump hall of fame anti-scientology critics in the same muddy bucket as LA Cops, OSA, Danny Masterson and any other convenient villain they can recall.

At least this trend has not yet reached the deafening cry that Aaron, Mike, Jon and others "are literally worse than Adolph Hitler". LOL

I've been noticing a lot of zeitgeist disruption recently in the 'stop scientology abuses' village. I haven't given it any time to investigate, study or mull over--but I do notice it and sometimes wonder if this is possibly one of the very first (think operating system 2.0) times that OSA trolling, dead agenting and "third party" disruptions have ever been effective. All their previous efforts to shut down criticism and mocking of the cults insanity and sociopathic crimes have only resulted in that movement virally expanding into the media/internet MOUNTAINS that now exist. All OSA's treachery has only culminated in the humiliating crash in the number of active scientologists, which many now estimate to be just 20,000.

In that sense, OSA's contributions have actually been one of the most successful and debilitating/sustained attacks on Scientology that ever existed!

I saw a video earlier today--before reading this thread--that showed me a new perspective on new younger protesters trying to devalue, devalue & destroy older protesters who taught them the game. The subject in the video (israel, hamas, war, et al) is fully irrelevant to the point here. The phenomena is what matters. One can substitute virtually ANY social justice movement over the past century and see the concept clearly, without any concern to current world affairs. For example the greatest african american activists, scholars, authors and humanitarians have been under vicious attack from the new "woke" black movements (BLM, et al). Some of the most brilliant minds that ever tackled and began to resolve the horrific conditions that blacks now find themselves in (who are trapped within countless urban war-zone ghettos, aka "the hood") are the most viciously crucified. Such as Thomas Sowell. Anyone who finds his books or videos has found water in the desert.

Naturally, Thomas Sowell is but one (1) name in a very long list of extraordinarily successful black activists, authors and scholars who have been ruthlessly attacked by the newer generation of "woke" black radicals. One is permitted to be black and successful---but no one is allowed to be black and successful and also encouraging that African Americans need to start taking responsibility for their cultural demise, rather than promoting victimology and blaming "white racists" for every condition they refuse to address--even if the solution is well known and has splendidly proven to have worked.

Have a look at this video below and see if you might also notice some stunning parallels to the idiosyncratic ecosystem of Scientology critics/activists---and the new wave of "ultra-woke" who blindly fire live rounds at their own side.

What an ingenious strategy that would be for OSA, no? To get the most successful anti-cult activists mowed down with "friendly fire". It's a provocative idea, but not without good reasons to consider...

...​

hi ,
nice comment.
I think you forgot to mention Marty R as a ex member who helped make agroup of ex scientologist and did a grat harm to them.
lets remember Squirell Busters videos and chats with Mike Rinder while fishing and airport videos.
this videos you can STILL find on Martys.
thanks for help.
ML koki.

 

[I M Dex]

I think never-ins fail to understand the paranoid fear that most members have of the OT materials, especially the OT3 materials, that will "kill you if you aren't ready for them", and they also tend to expect members to know all about the Xenu story when most of them haven't gotten that far on the bridge and haven't encountered it yet.

On the other hand, ex-members probably fail to grasp how funny the OT3 story is to never-ins (they believe THAT?) or how improbable it all is to anyone who's familiar with modern science (and geology in particular).

"Elron Elray vs Xenu. Because you'll believe anything."

 

[Tanchi]

Thanks for this thread.. I've read it 3 times! It took me a good 12 years to unravel the teachings of my Xtian parents. I have empathy for anyone on a similar journey. My parents and gparents, extended family would not have shunned me. Not so with those leaving Co$.

As for LA protesters, I think they're mellowing their approach, especially since Gude has stepped back. I wish they would figure out other Co$ businesses to stream. Oh well.

The ex wars are just total disarray. I had opinions on it, but that changes at least twice a week.

Ty for this thread.

 

[The_Fixer]

..

I think it's cool when a never-in learns a few Scientology words and then goes on a jihadi rampage against the cult. That's always fun, LOL.

But, I've also noticed the recent bizarre incipient trend of nouveau attacks that were aimed in the direction of stone-cold activists like Aaron Smith-Levin, Mike Rinder, Jon Atack and many other courageous and effective whistleblowers who "paved the way" for so many others to speak their mind and fight cult tyranny. Of course they opened the door for the never-in Scientology protesters too, but that fact has become invisible too often in the effort to lump hall of fame anti-scientology critics in the same muddy bucket as LA Cops, OSA, Danny Masterson and any other convenient villain they can recall.

At least this trend has not yet reached the deafening cry that Aaron, Mike, Jon and others "are literally worse than Adolph Hitler". LOL

I've been noticing a lot of zeitgeist disruption recently in the 'stop scientology abuses' village. I haven't given it any time to investigate, study or mull over--but I do notice it and sometimes wonder if this is possibly one of the very first (think operating system 2.0) times that OSA trolling, dead agenting and "third party" disruptions have ever been effective. All their previous efforts to shut down criticism and mocking of the cults insanity and sociopathic crimes have only resulted in that movement virally expanding into the media/internet MOUNTAINS that now exist. All OSA's treachery has only culminated in the humiliating crash in the number of active scientologists, which many now estimate to be just 20,000.

In that sense, OSA's contributions have actually been one of the most successful and debilitating/sustained attacks on Scientology that ever existed!

I saw a video earlier today--before reading this thread--that showed me a new perspective on new younger protesters trying to devalue, devalue & destroy older protesters who taught them the game. The subject in the video (israel, hamas, war, et al) is fully irrelevant to the point here. The phenomena is what matters. One can substitute virtually ANY social justice movement over the past century and see the concept clearly, without any concern to current world affairs. For example the greatest african american activists, scholars, authors and humanitarians have been under vicious attack from the new "woke" black movements (BLM, et al). Some of the most brilliant minds that ever tackled and began to resolve the horrific conditions that blacks now find themselves in (who are trapped within countless urban war-zone ghettos, aka "the hood") are the most viciously crucified. Such as Thomas Sowell. Anyone who finds his books or videos has found water in the desert.

Naturally, Thomas Sowell is but one (1) name in a very long list of extraordinarily successful black activists, authors and scholars who have been ruthlessly attacked by the newer generation of "woke" black radicals. One is permitted to be black and successful---but no one is allowed to be black and successful and also encouraging that African Americans need to start taking responsibility for their cultural demise, rather than promoting victimology and blaming "white racists" for every condition they refuse to address--even if the solution is well known and has splendidly proven to have worked.

Have a look at this video below and see if you might also notice some stunning parallels to the idiosyncratic ecosystem of Scientology critics/activists---and the new wave of "ultra-woke" who blindly fire live rounds at their own side.

What an ingenious strategy that would be for OSA, no? To get the most successful anti-cult activists mowed down with "friendly fire". It's a provocative idea, but not without good reasons to consider...

...​

Good post.

I came across this dude today and thought it really explains a lot of what is going on today.

Kinda hard to remember that this guy published his book in 1951!

This article explains things a little more:

The Prophets: Eric Hoffer

In 1951, a book by an unschooled dockworker predicted the forces that would give rise to radical politics on the left, populism on the right—and a president like Donald Trump.

substack.com

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Good post.

I came across this dude today and thought it really explains a lot of what is going on today.

Kinda hard to remember that this guy published his book in 1951!

This article explains things a little more:

The Prophets: Eric Hoffer

In 1951, a book by an unschooled dockworker predicted the forces that would give rise to radical politics on the left, populism on the right—and a president like Donald Trump.

substack.com

Great reference book! Thanks!

I read the book "THE TRUE BELIEVER" decades ago and recommended it often to friends.

The link you included was to someone who REVIEWED Hoffer's 1951 book and thought it was a clever idea to quote Hillary Clinton as a reliable source of information--when she is the exact kind of propaganda and gaslighting propagator of "BIG LIES" that Hoffer was trying to shine light on.

I imagine Hoffer would have laughed hard at the idea that Clinton would be using his masterwork on "True Believers" to pretend that she was not one of the most prodigious sources creating and spreading "Mass Psychogenic Illness" -- such as continuously asserting that her political opponent (Trump) was a "...sexist, xenophobic, racist, homophobic, misogynist, agent of Russia and puppet of Putin" who is literally worse than Hitler, LOL.

I am not claiming that YOU are saying these things, but the reviewer you are quoting (not Hoffer) exhibits symptoms himself of having been infected with the woke biases and misinformation of hysterical "True Believers". It pretty much destroys his credibility when he tries to hijack Hoffer's work to attack the competition of his favorite political candidates---unless he was quoting Hillary Clinton as a humorously prime example of hypocritical irony, lol.

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...

 

[The_Fixer]

Great reference book! Thanks!

I read the book "THE TRUE BELIEVER" decades ago and recommended it often to friends.

The link you included was to someone who REVIEWED Hoffer's 1951 book and thought it was a clever idea to quote Hillary Clinton as a reliable source of information--when she is the exact kind of propaganda and gaslighting propagator of "BIG LIES" that Hoffer was trying to shine light on.

I imagine Hoffer would have laughed hard at the idea that Clinton would be using his masterwork on "True Believers" to pretend that she was not one of the most prodigious sources creating and spreading "Mass Psychogenic Illness" -- such as her political opponent (Trump) being a "...sexist, xenophobic, racist, homophobic, misogynist, agent of Russia and puppet of Putin" who is literally worse than Hitler, LOL.

I am not claiming that YOU are saying these things, but the reviewer you are quoting (not Hoffer) exhibits symptoms himself of having been infected with the woke biases and misinformation of hysterical "True Believers". It pretty much destroys his credibility when he tries to use Hoffer's work to support his favorite political candidates---unless he was quoting Hillary Clinton as a prime example of hypocritical irony, lol.

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...

Yeah, the Hillary Clinton bit wasn't lost on me. I was kinda focused on Hoffer there, so pardon me if i fluffed up a bit there.

The irony of it all is somewhat cool too I guess.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Yeah, the Hillary Clinton bit wasn't lost on me. I was kinda focused on Hoffer there, so pardon me if i fluffed up a bit there.

The irony of it all is somewhat cool too I guess.

At first, I actually thought the reviewer was making an edgy satiric jab at Hillary Clinton. But then, not so much, because it's far to general and misguided to create two (2) categories and try to jam everyone into one (1) of those two (2). There are too many categories to oversimplify and just try to squeeze Trump into a box labeled "Populist". Makes no sense at all. What? He was a "populist" when he helped reduced african american unemployment to the lowest numbers in history? Or was he a "populist" when he boomed the economy, lowered taxes, managed to maintain enviably low gas prices and kept inflation rates at a small fraction of what it uncontrollably has soared to under President Biden?

Why was a Trump a populist? Because people loved the prosperity and the good things Trump did and that (therefore) made him "popular"? LOL

...

 

[Type4_PTS]

Why was a Trump a populist?

Hitler used populist themes and Trump was just like Hitler? Is that why?

 

[I M Dex]

Hitler used populist themes and Trump was just like Hitler? Is that why?

Trump isn't just like Hitler.Hitler had a mustache.

 

[PirateAndBum]

When did Hitler die (1945), when was Trump born (1946)?

'nuf said

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Hitler used populist themes and Trump was just like Hitler? Is that why?

LOL

The list of parallels is lengthy and exceedingly eerie!

-- both Trump and Hitler's romantic partners were European!​

-- both Trump and Hitler were trying to make their nations more successful!​

-- both Trump and Hitler admired and supported men in uniform!​

-- both Trump and Hitler gave speeches to large cheering crowds!​

-- both Trump and Hitler were allies of Russia against our democracy!​

-- both Trump and Hitler's first name contain 6 letters! ​

-- both Trump and Hitler..........................​

I literally can't continue. I have to literally stop there because it's literally
creeping me out that Trump is literally worse than Hitler!

..

 

[Type4_PTS]

-- both Trump and Hitler's first name contain 6 letters! ​

Hitler only has 5 letters in his first name.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Hitler only has 5 letters in his first name.

Your argument just made my point that they are identical!

-- both Hitler and Trump were so dumb they could not spell. Trump was unable​

to spell the word coverage ("covfefe") and Hitler was unable to spell Adolph. LOL ​

​

​

holy hell, I desperately need to schedule a word clearing session on the correct spelling of fascists' first names!
(at least I am not the only one and I'll have plenty of people to twin with on star-rate checkouts, lol) LINK

...

 

[The_Fixer]

Trump isn't just like Hitler.Hitler had a mustache.

It doubled as a toothbrush.....

 

[Karakorum]

To whoever derailed my great thread into some Trump&Hitler nonsense - shame on you!