What is going on with Mike Rinder & The Aftermath Foundation ? Down the Rabbit Hole YouTube : Fleas and Dogs: Letter from the Aftermath Foundation

[Karakorum]

The idea that something terribly important is at risk if "the people" side with "the enemy". It's a bit delusional.

I feel it has recently gone further than that. They are making it as if you have to keep quiet, because if you express any different opinion about a beloved figure, then you are siding with the enemy. Even if you then say the worst things about said enemy, you still get accused of helping them.

It feels like some sort of catch 22:

Me: "Miscavige is a ruthless SOB that just thrives off lies and abuse"
Them: "A-ha! Spoken like a true OSA goon and Miscavige lover!"

 

[mimsey borogrove]

That's exactly the sort of communication I do not want to have. I want transparency, just like I wrote: light is the best disinfectant. I do not believe in this "let's communicate behind closed doors where we act and say things totally different from what we say and do in public" kind of thing.
Unless this involves people's private information (real names etc), or just things that we do not want OSA to know (and thus not put it out in the open), then I see no reason for keeping things secret in some weird 2 way comm.

He got a lot of flak not just because random people sympathize with Miriam, but also because it jives with how Mike behaved towards them in the past. I know it does in my case.


That's the whole point: We never reach him. He might read the comments and the emails and the posts, yet then he deletes them and does not reply. We never get to reach him.

It is Mike's right to do so and ignore them.
It is my right to say that this is exactly the detrimental, self-defeating posture that got Mike into this mess.



I guess I would be more sympathetic if this was something that happened out of the blue just now. Or if this was something Mike had no control over. But in this case, it is something Mike has been doing continuously over the years. He's been ignorinjg people in the community, not engaging with them with OSA related information and too often treated them with the same sort of "You do not have the rank to ask things to such a big being as I am!" high-handed manner that we all experienced so frequently from high level scientology executives when we were still in.

He got a lot of flak not just because random people sympathize with Miriam, but also because it jives with how Mike behaved towards them or other former members in the past. I know it does in my case.

Mike did this to himself, yet he is trying to blame other people, calling them names and never admitting that his zipped-lips strategy was wrong and is what caused this whole mess. He is the one who is dividing the community, not me. OVer the years I've been very open with sharing with the community all my knowledge of the investigations unit, the archives, ethics, being an MAA and other things I did inside. I'm not the one who has the problem with transparency and ignoring other former members.

I've said all thats everal times now, or it feels like that. I guess I'm done with this subject.

I'm gonna support Mike in whatever he and the foundation do to curb Davey's abuses. But I feel no reason to hold back or keep quiet when I see Mike do things that are self-defeating or disrespectful towards other former members. In this case, I feel like Mike continues to take the same detrimental, self-defeating strategy he did for years.

It would seem you are stuck in Hubbard's com formulae, expectating an ack from Mike as proof he has received your com. I would guess he gets a lot of email traffic, is not fully recovered, and has greater problems than responding to mirrad random emails which would eat up all the hours in the day. While I feel your frustration at not being acknowledged, I also wonder what you would do in his position? I wager the answer is prioritize.

I dunno. You are welcome to believe as you wish. He did say he could have handled the Miriam situation better. I appreciate your responses.

Mimsey

 

[Bill]

I feel it has recently gone further than that. They are making it as if you have to keep quiet, because if you express any different opinion about a beloved figure, then you are siding with the enemy. Even if you then say the worst things about said enemy, you still get accused of helping them.

It feels like some sort of catch 22:

Me: "Miscavige is a ruthless SOB that just thrives off lies and abuse"
Them: "A-ha! Spoken like a true OSA goon and Miscavige lover!"

I hate this whole situation. There is a specific person who has said a specific thing. Not "they". And that specific person can be challenged on the specific statement. Not strawman "statements". No "they".

Specific person. Specific accusation/statement.

I'm not taking ANY part of this. I make NO accusations nor do I defend ANY position.

When the discussion degenerates into "they" and strawman imaginary insults, it just makes things worse.

Let's not.

 

[L Ron Hubbard]

REVIEW A CASE! Who is the REAL OSA? Let’s Break this down w/Mirriam FRANCIS! @ChildrenOfScientology

Alex #downtherabbitholenews @ChildrenOfScientology.
-Should Mike Rinder be on any board trying to help Sexually abused Children? Mirriam Francis raises the question.

 

[Karakorum]

It would seem you are stuck in Hubbard's com formulae, expectating an ack from Mike as proof he has received your com.

No. Nothing could be further from that.

I would be happy if Mike would respond to anyone and just share the damn information in public with us former SO members, ex-scn members, victims, scientology watchers and scientology critics.

1. I'd be happy if he would have had several episodes of the podcast dedicated to OSA operations and tactics.
2. I'd be happy if he would have written about this at lenght in his book rather than just skim over it entirely.
3. I'd be happy if he would have had a long-format episode on youtube about it with Chris
4... or with Aaron
5.... or with Leah
6.... or with Joe Rogan, John Dehlin or with whichever youtuber he feels like it.
7. I would be happy if Mike would have just written a whole series of long posts about this on his blog without even mentioning anyone by name of the many people who asked this stuff over the years.
8. I'd be happy if even today he would have had a youtube live with Miriam and talked about it with her live.

I do not care if Mike acks me or not. I couldn't care less if he mentions me or anyone else who asked him that over the years (To be honest, I would prefer if he didn't mention me). I just care if he shares the information or not. The only reason this annoys me is because he keeps his zipped-lips-policy even in the face of an angry 2nd-gen victim of child sex abuse.

This isn't about me.

It never was.

I also wonder what you would do in his position (...)

The same thing I've done with my own knowledge about inv.

Share his info about OSA in public, without holding things back or hiding behind the "I shared stuff with the police, so I do not have to talk with any of you guys" claim.

Mike has a right not to share that info. And I have the right to say I am dissapointed with his decision.

He did say he could have handled the Miriam situation better.

Well, he still can handle it better! That's the point!

He can go on and answer the OSA related question in a format he chooses. But he isn't doing that. That's what bugs me: He sticks to his zipped-lips-policy even now. If a chid sex abuse victim can't make him answer these questions, I do not know who can. It seems he'd rather take it to his grave, burn his whole reputation and drag the foundation down with him rather than just talk about OSA. It boggles my mind.

I hate this whole situation. There is a specific person who has said a specific thing. Not "they". And that specific person can be challenged on the specific statement. Not strawman "statements". No "they".

There's many more than just one person. I've received communication through otehr channels, not just this forum. My ex-scn contacts are not limited to just the forum. I'm receiving emails and communication across other social media. And not all of those people want me to reveal their identities. I respect that.

 

[Isaac]

I feel it has recently gone further than that. They are making it as if you have to keep quiet, because if you express any different opinion about a beloved figure, then you are siding with the enemy. Even if you then say the worst things about said enemy, you still get accused of helping them.

It feels like some sort of catch 22:

Me: "Miscavige is a ruthless SOB that just thrives off lies and abuse"
Them: "A-ha! Spoken like a true OSA goon and Miscavige lover!"

It’s a technique called deflecting

deflect (dɪˈflɛkt)
vb
to turn or cause to turn aside from a course; swerve
[C17: from Latin dēflectere, from flectere to bend]
deˈflector n

 

[Isaac]

Liz Gale speaks

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[Isaac]

It would seem you are stuck in Hubbard's com formulae, expectating an ack from Mike as proof he has received your com. I would guess he gets a lot of email traffic, is not fully recovered, and has greater problems than responding to mirrad random emails which would eat up all the hours in the day. While I feel your frustration at not being acknowledged, I also wonder what you would do in his position? I wager the answer is prioritize.

I dunno. You are welcome to believe as you wish. He did say he could have handled the Miriam situation better. I appreciate your responses.

Mimsey

You are missing the point entirely
Did you actually listen to Miriam Francis and Mike Brown?

 

[Isaac]

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

A-Aron defends himself with documented evidence

 

[L Ron Hubbard]

LIVE w/ Mirriam Francis & Friends

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

IN ABOUT 2 HOURS @GrowingUpInScientology

 

[Isaac]

You are missing the point entirely
Did you actually listen to Miriam Francis and Mike Brown?

 

[Lee #28]

I wonder if Mike Rinder has any past "unsavory" incidents .....as was said about Aaron....

If Mike Rinder in his 22 years as head of OSA for the Cult.....has any unsavory acts....then he too should be asked to resign from the Board of the Aftermath Foundation.

I would imagine that he must have some....?

 

[mimsey borogrove]

You are missing the point entirely
Did you actually listen to Miriam Francis and Mike Brown?

No, nor do I plan to.

Early on when Leah and Mike were doing their episode with Miriam, they stopped filming:

"We were so incensed by what she told us that, with her approval, we contacted the LAPD and arranged for two detectives to come to the location where we were shooting. We shut down the production to brief them and for her to be interviewed. An official police report was filed, and the same detective we originally spoke with is still working this case. "

They did the right thing - but it has spiraled into this nightmare.

To me, this is a mess and it only is getting worse with accusations left and right on YT. etc.

The actual truth is not for me to decide, nor do I have much interest in it, other than I think it's helping OSA achieve their ends, and I wish it would end. That's my main communication. I hope Miriam gets justice via the police, not by this social media court.

Mimsey

 

[TheSneakster]

I wonder if Mike Rinder has any past "unsavory" incidents .....as was said about Aaron....

Nice try. Aaron committed very blatant and very public "unsavory" actions while he was a member of the Aftermath Board of Directions. This is a matter of public record and not mere speculation or rumor.

Mike Rinder certainly has done no such things while a member of the Aftermath Board. If he had, there would be public records of such as there are in A/S/L's case.

Compare apples with apples and not oranges, as the saying goes.

 

[Isaac]

No, nor do I plan to.

Early on when Leah and Mike were doing their episode with Miriam, they stopped filming:

"We were so incensed by what she told us that, with her approval, we contacted the LAPD and arranged for two detectives to come to the location where we were shooting. We shut down the production to brief them and for her to be interviewed. An official police report was filed, and the same detective we originally spoke with is still working this case. "

They did the right thing - but it has spiraled into this nightmare.

To me, this is a mess and it only is getting worse with accusations left and right on YT. etc.

The actual truth is not for me to decide, nor do I have much interest in it, other than I think it's helping OSA achieve their ends, and I wish it would end. That's my main communication. I hope Miriam gets justice via the police, not by this social media court.

Mimsey

That’s what I thought - it’s fascinating you pretend to know what is really going on… when you obviously do not

Again Mims- You are missing the entire point
No one is obligated to watch the videos but if one doesnt yet continues to run a narrative based on assumptions, beliefs and hope without knowing the actual facts … the problem does not change or go away …

Just because someone wants this conversation to stop will not help it to stop
People want to communicate about this situation
If one does not want to participate… one has plenty of threads to visit
No one is forcing anyone to listen to videos or spend time understanding what is really going on

Believe it or not - this shit show is not helping OSA in any way. This is life The shit show that persists is simply exposing normal human behavior without a cult leader forcing peeps to be suppressed, toe the line and protect images

I hope the high tankers stop running that narrative… it’s not effective and doesn’t help the cause…It’s culty

Miriam, Liz, Sergio, Karakorum, A-Aron, Mike Brown, Rabbit, Mirian et el all want communication to resolve issues and get help
They don’t want name calling, invalidation, nullification and suppression using one’s power of influence. We all have had enough of that in the cult.

 

[Isaac]

I wonder if Mike Rinder has any past "unsavory" incidents .....as was said about Aaron....

If Mike Rinder in his 22 years as head of OSA for the Cult.....has any unsavory acts....then he too should be asked to resign from the Board of the Aftermath Foundation.

I would imagine that he must have some....?

I was shocked to read Mike's blog yesterday It was so incredibly inappropriate and self grandizing. He takes no responsibility for what he has done to his friends and how this all unfolded. Most born in cult members like Mike do not have the skills or training on how to have and maintain friendships. Being in for so long - he was trained to discard without sorrow, which is what he appears to do to people like A-Aron who gave him a job, invited him to be in the Aftermath Foundation after he and Luis Garcia founded it and took money from A-Aron that he raised for his cancer treatment.

There is not one negative comment either

A-Aron discloses some facts about Mike on his video he just posted. He is doing a live stream with the group tonight and another video with "Relatable Reese". Stay tuned. We are finding out what actually happened thanks to some of the those willing to communicate.

Mike created this entire flap and it is time to air his dirty laundry as long as Mike wants to make up lies about others to make himself look good
There seems to be some Mike Rinder cult lovers like Chris Shelton waxing enthusiasm for Mike's critical posts about his "friends"

Watch A-Aron's videos posted today. it will all make sense.

I still love Mike and the gang and hope they all continue to suppress and expose the criminal human trafficking cult of Scientology. I do not like how they are not handling the situation and accusing others of nefarious behavior. They are not always right and they need some social grooming on how to treat other people that are not high tankers and celebrities of the cult.

 

[I M Dex]

I am seriously miffed. -wait, who's the bad guy in this scenario again?

 

[TheSneakster]

I am seriously miffed. -wait, who's the bad guy in this scenario again?

If it helps calm the situation down at all, I can volunteer for that job.

 

[TheSneakster]

Miriam, Liz, Sergio, Karakorum, A-Aron, Mike Brown, Rabbit, Mirian et el all want communication to resolve issues and get help
They don’t want name calling, invalidation, nullification and suppression using one’s power of influence. We all have had enough of that in the cult.

Great demonstration of an apologist supporting a bunch of offenders by accusing someone else of what their toxic tribe has actually been doing to their agreed upon designated target. Also a fine example of gaslighting on your part. Do carry on.

 

[mimsey borogrove]

That’s what I thought - it’s fascinating you pretend to know what is really going on… when you obviously do not

Again Mims- You are missing the entire point
No one is obligated to watch the videos but if one doesn't yet continues to run a narrative based on assumptions, beliefs and hope without knowing the actual facts … the problem does not change or go away …

Just because someone wants this conversation to stop will not help it to stop
People want to communicate about this situation
If one does not want to participate… one has plenty of threads to visit
No one is forcing anyone to listen to videos or spend time understanding what is really going on

Believe it or not - this shit show is not helping OSA in any way. This is life The shit show that persists is simply exposing normal human behavior without a cult leader forcing peeps to be suppressed, toe the line and protect images

I hope the high tankers stop running that narrative… it’s not effective and doesn’t help the cause…It’s culty

Miriam, Liz, Sergio, Karakorum, A-Aron, Mike Brown, Rabbit, Mirian et el all want communication to resolve issues and get help
They don’t want name calling, invalidation, nullification and suppression using one’s power of influence. We all have had enough of that in the cult.

This shit show is exactly what OSA wants - discord amongst their enemies. They want Mike and Leah smeared anyway they can get it. These attacks are accomplishing what they could not:

The Future:

Due to the amount of hate that has spilled over onto them, this latest campaign has taken a toll on my wife and children – something they neither asked for nor deserved. These unfair attacks are damaging to their mental and physical health, as well as mine. I prioritize the well-being of my family above everything, including ending the abuses of Scientology.

Thus I am stepping back from social media and will instead focus on things I believe are essential to ending the abuses of scientology, something I believe can only be accomplished away from this toxicity. I will continue to work with law enforcement in their investigations against scientology, and assist attorneys suing scientology, provide documents/information and briefings to elected officials, engage in select media and podcast interviews and continue to pursue some confidential behind-the-scenes projects.

I thank you all for your support over the years. You have been there for me, Christie, Leah, Claire and Marc, Amy and Mat, The Aftermath show and Foundation, our podcasts and our videos. For this, we will all be forever grateful. And I especially want to thank all of you who reached out to me in the past two months to offer your support and encouragement and to the numerous people who offered their love, prayers and support over the past 8 months as I dealt with my cancer diagnosis and treatment. I couldn’t have made it without you.