On Loaded Language

I had been reckoned amongt the transgressors and apologists! :melodramatic:


I had listened to some of the vids of Jon Atack with Chris, but there's something like 7 of them in total - I might have missed the one when gnosticism is brought up.


Gnosticism is one of the foundations of European mysticism. So you will find traces of it in many later philosophies. Though I think it is present in Scientology to a far greater extent than it is in Crowley or Nazism or other modern movements.
For Blavatsky it was a rather peripheral part of her cosmology. For Hubbard the notion of spiritual beings who imprisoned themselves in the material world is a core concept. To me it seems Hubbard was much more in line with classical gnostics than Crowley, or Blavatsky or conteporary 1960s and 1970s new age movements.
The other guys took some parts here and there, Hubbard took the central ontological framework and then filled it out with his own details. But the key parts are all there:

  • There are several layers of existence in the universe, with the material universe contained within the spiritual universe with all ultimately contained in the infinite, single undifferentiated "divine" universe (8th dynamic - God).
  • God is the impersonal, passive ideal sphere on top. He's not a person or active participant who will liberate you.
  • Humans are purely spiritual eternal beings
  • Through a natural, but destructive process these being have trapped themselves in the material universe
  • They had "forgotten/lost knowledge" of the fact that this is so.
  • There are other destructive/demonic/careless beings in this universe who further help to keep the spiritual beings more and more trapped (in scn its the implant creators, Xenu bringing them down to BT etc. In gnosticism it could be Yaldabaoth, Pistis Sophia etc).
  • The way to liberation is gnosis the Hubbardian "knowledge of knowingness"
  • You can liberate yourself, God or other higher beings will not do it for you. Praying to God is pointless.
  • The radical dichotomy - matter is all bad, spirit is the thing that is good.
  • Humans are naturally good, just ignorant in their current state.
  • The lower you go in the spheres of existence, the more "degraded" you are.
  • You can become even more degraded than the default human state - lose even more knowledge or go down to pure matter level ("being objects" - remember this weird tone scale thing? This is where it comes from! Its a very old gnostic idea)
It is also interesting to note that out of the plethora of Neoplatonist traditions, Hubbard seems to have went with gonsticism, which is de facto a very extreme and radical version of neoplatonism. Gnostics are the "taliban of neoplatonism" so to speak.


All true.



I think Hubbard willingly dropped a lot of outright lies into the system. He also added some elements that do not fall into the "true or false" spectrum, but are merely useful ideas that help keep members controlled or helped him to secure funding.

But I also think that a lot of what he included in the system are things he himself believed in. What makes me think so is that Hubbard continued to receive auditing even in situations where he was isolated from his followers. He didn't do it "for show", he had his own purpose. I'm convinced that he believed at least in the gnostic parts of his system.

He wanted to be just a game-maker, but in the end the game clearly drew him in.



I agree with all you say here. But this not necessarily mean that he considered everything he created to be simple BS.


I think we have to take into account that he said he found all his ideas through research and auditing. The fact that he plagiarized them puts them in the lie category for me.

If you pretend to have used scientific research and found rock solid evidence that these facts are true then just stealing ideas from others then changing them a little to hide that, filing off the serial numbers makes it so you are a liar lying. That is my opinion on Hubbard.

Jon Atack has described how Hubbard had aides read books or articles on psychology and other topics then explain them to him and he would then give a lecture that night pretending to have discovered the cliff notes version of the subject his aide just told him.d

One person looked at his library in one office and was shocked to reportedly see many books on hypnosis and the occult and several by and about Hitler and his speeches. His Sea Org aides reportedly said Hubbard read them to know what others were up to. Um, no.
 
I found this idea regarding actions and words being good for evaluating Scientology.

Hubbard in references designed for propaganda such as The Way To Happiness described a moral code but in Scientology organizations and the Sea Org especially Hubbard demanded ruthlessness, cruelty and the gross violation of human rights.

His propaganda doesn't match his orders, not even a little.

The use of claims that you do one thing and the reality that you do another is a foundation of cults. They don't work without deception in my opinion, including self-deception by the leader.
Now this treatise of yours really turns Scientology inside out and up side down for the reader to examine the intricacies of how the trap actively entraps. Extremely well put, thought out and worthy of a humanitarian award. BRAVO!
 
Now this treatise of yours really turns Scientology inside out and up side down for the reader to examine the intricacies of how the trap actively entraps. Extremely well put, thought out and worthy of a humanitarian award. BRAVO!
Thanks.

I have to admit that nothing I posted here is an original idea of my own. I got it all from other people who wrote on cults long before me.
 
Thanks.

I have to admit that nothing I posted here is an original idea of my own. I got it all from other people who wrote on cults long before me.
OK, but still quite a composition.
One however miniscule observation I was moved to have in reading it was, have you ever noticed how Scientologists are hammered repetitively during checkouts to say "the materials say....." and never "the materials mean....."? There are no individual interpretations allowed, it's all a robotic transfer of command intention with zero extrapolations allowed. That would be squirreling..... They tighten down the ceiling on your mind's reach at all times. Only word definitions are checked for what they mean to the student before the student is made to do a demo to hypnotically cement the command intention into his psyche. It's an excruciating way to have to learn and therefore painful to ever reexamine "why did I ever buy all of that"?
 
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Regarding your point on Hubbard believing his own shit.

I looked at this for a long time.

We have a lot of contradictory evidence on the topic including the Skipper letter in which Hubbard claims immortality doesn't exist. He also reportedly told Executive Director for Life Bill Franks that he knew the overt-motivator sequence is bullshit and that people don't leave Scientology because of overts but that you could never tell anyone, because then they would all leave.

There are a lot of other things that show Hubbard knew Scientology was bullshit. He had scientists volunteer to verify the abilities of clears but sent them away and refused to let them test anyone, including himself. They were there, ready to cover the expense and volunteer their time to prove Dianetics worked and he refused them any access to his clears.

He used conventional espionage for operation snow white and all other operations when OTs should have been much more effective, because there are no OTs.

He lied about his finances and hid them in complex schemes from government agencies, which is what a fraud would do.

I think that the models of malignant narcissist and traumatic narcissist from Daniel Shaw are accurate regarding Hubbard and further the fractured mind model from Robert Jay Lifton is the best one I have seen.

Lifton has described how a guru or cult leader can at the furthest level reach solipsistic reality. He in one part of his mind knows he is lying but in another part simultaneously wants to will his lies into reality. It as if he is the only real person in the world and when he absolutely has to he deals with reality but only reluctantly and asserts his preferred reality as much as possible.

His reality is based on as Shaw described repudiation of denied aspects of self. He has an inner identity of a worthless, incompetent, degraded, weak and shameful self that he cannot stand, so he ruthlessly projects these traits into his enemies. His enemies include people who remind him of repudiated aspects of self by displaying them in themselves, by disagreement with his assertion of his perfection and godlike infallible character and by pointing out his flaws. These are unacceptable sins to him.

He pretends to be the opposite of his inner identity. He feels weak so he acts strong, he feels incompetent so he acts superhuman, he feels like he has no value, so he acts like he has unique unequalled importance and value, he feels undeserving of love and even life so he acts like he deserves unlimited admiration and eternal life.

His negative feelings are not based in reality as no one is truly infinitely bad, worthless, stupid, incapable and so on but it is based on his past trauma in theory and not a sane self assessment.

I can include a few links to articles by Robert Jay Lifton and Daniel Shaw describing the fractured and dissociated mind of the cult leader.







Most of that is over my head. Swoosh!

When I wrote my above post I knew I was not explaining clearly what I meant by "Hubbard believes his own shit."
I'll try here.
What his game is, is not necessarily what $cientology is advertised as. His game and $cn = two different things. (That's pretty simple now that I write it, lol)

Hubbard believes his game.
$cn. is merely a tool to execute his game.
They're not the same thing.

So the overt/motivator thing, all the lies, etc. Just tools to keep his players, pieces, resources viable.
He's managing a corporation, he's GREAT at blowing smoke up peoples' asses playing to their ego.

And #3.... I should have included in my previous post. Hubbard has a HUGE ego. No, an ENORMOUS ego. I liken it to a Black Hole Stars' gravitational field. He craves adulation and any particle of such within 7.8325 parsecs will get sucked into it. :)
 
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I don't know how familiar you are with my work but I too have looked at materials on malignant narcissism and written on Hubbard and the Scientology organizations as fitting that model.


Wow. I didn't know you posted about this subject on your own Mockingbird's Nest site. I will check it out. I've been listening to Dr Les Carter on youtube who discusses the psychological fallout of being involved with such personalty types as the narcissist.

Covert Narcissist who Uses Crazymaking Communication

In my opinion there has been wave after wave of creators in this universe. And I believe there is one generation, or Causal group which truly believe others are just extensions of themselves. No sovereignty or autonomy of spiritual beings are allowed in their mindset. They 'created' everybody, so can absorb the essence right back in......and are entitled to do so.

In our dark ages, when these spiritual 'feeders' were free to dramatize the most, it was considered that if a person lead their life according to their OWN personal will, instead of that of their savior, it was punishable in the afterlife. I've been dealing with one of these religious types daily.

The game has to be kept going.

 
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Most of that is over my head. Swoosh!

When I wrote my above post I knew I was not explaining clearly what I meant by "Hubbard believes his own shit."
I'll try here.
What his game is, is not necessarily what $cientology is advertised as. His game and $cn = two different things. (That's pretty simple now that I write it, lol)

Hubbard believes his game.
$cn. is merely a tool to execute his game.
They're not the same thing.

So the overt/motivator thing, all the lies, etc. Just tools to keep his players, pieces, resources viable.
He's managing a corporation, he's GREAT at blowing smoke up peoples' asses playing to their ego.

And #3.... I should have included in my previous post. Hubbard has a HUGE ego. No, an ENORMOUS ego. I liken it to a Black Hole Stars' gravitational field. He craves adulation and any particle of such within 7.8325 parsecs will get sucked into it. :)

Bolded mine.

I've started to get my back up when I percieve these big ego. The valence sticks in my craw. Yesterday I was watching Jane Fonda in Monster-in-Law. Then, there was that Shirley MacLain mom in Postcards from the Edge. And there was the narcissistic mom in Prince of Tides. I have a loathed character cache in a special compartment in my mind. And.....they are ALL 'mothers'!! PROGENITORS

Hmmm. I entertain the idea that historically, they ATE their female offspring to keep this competition from being fertilized by the Supreme Leader. Lol

1587441164471.png
 
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Bolded mine.

I've started to get my back up when I percieve these big ego. The valence sticks in my craw. Yesterday I was watching Jane Fonda in Monster-in-Law. Then, there was that Shirley MacLain mom in Postcards from the Edge. And there was the narcissistic mom in Prince of Tides. I have a loathed character cache in a special compartment in my mind. And.....they are ALL 'mothers'!! PROGENITORS

Hmmm. I entertain the idea that historically, they ATE their female offspring to keep this competition from being fertilized by the Supreme Leader. Lol

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I'll ask him.
But yeah, whenever I start to think Trump is too much of a blockhead to do this job I remind myself who was the alternative. And then I find myself very happy with the blockhead.
I mean a pile of moss would be better than Hillary.
 
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Nut yeah, whenever I start to think Trump is too much of a blockhead to do this job I remind myself who was the alternative. And then I find myself very happy with the blockhead.
I mean a pile of moss would be better than Hillary.

I've said it before. I've never liked the guy. Even back in the 80s when I first heard about him. But I'm very glad he's President.

I suspect Hillary is one of the end goal's in all this. She's not going down anytime soon.
 
I've said it before. I've never liked the guy. Even back in the 80s when I first heard about him. But I'm very glad he's President.

I suspect Hillary is one of the end goal's in all this. She's not going down anytime soon.
I don't expect the Democratic party ever trying to run her as a candidate again. Not for president, not as VP.
 
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