Hello!

[Enthetan]

"It wasn't always that way, back in the 1960s and into the 1970s, only the dumbest people in Scientology regarded Scientology as a religion."

laughter! I couldn't have said it better - lol

In the orgs and missions a couple of people walked around wearing a collar for the sake of appearance. I never tried one. haha

In the Sea Org, there was a big push around 1980 to get all of us to get our minister's certs, primarily so we would be exempt from the military draft.

ADDING: President Carter re-instituted registration for conscription in July 1980, and that seems to have prompted the order.

 

[Zertel]

In the Sea Org, there was a big push around 1980 to get all of us to get our minister's certs, primarily so we would be exempt from the military draft.

I wonder if it worked for anyone. As you know, getting certified consisted of reading a book on comparative religions and maybe studying a few other things which I don't recall. Somehow my scn "Minister Of The Church" cert miraculously survived in the bottom of a trunk and I still have it. It even still has the Gold Seal still on it!

Enthetan, I saw your addition. I was draft bait for the Vietnam War in 1970 but I got a deferment.

 

[Irayam]

It wasn't always that way, back in the 1960s and into the 1970s, only the dumbest people in Scientology regarded Scientology as a religion. All but a few knew the religious pose was a defensive and protective measure to allow Scientology's tech to be applied.

Absolutely. Even in 1976, when I began $cientology, this history of religion was only there to avoid problems with governments.

In any case, that was the explanation given to me by the ED of the mission I was going on. I had told him that this story of religion was bothering me a little...

 

[Enthetan]

I wonder if it worked for anyone. As you know, getting certified consisted reading a book on comparative religions and maybe studying a few other things which I don't recall. Somehow my scn "Minister Of The Church" cert miraculously survived in the bottom of a trunk and I still have it. It even still has the Gold Seal still on it!

Enthetan, I saw your addition. I was draft bait for the Vietnam War in 1970 but I got a deferment.

In 1980, we were supposed to register. Nobody was prosecuted for failure to register after 1980, and nobody was actually conscripted after December 1972.

So whether it "worked" or not was moot.

 

[Harold#1]

Absolutely. Even in 1976, when I began $cientology, this history of religion was only there to avoid problems with governments.

In any case, that was the explanation given to me by the ED of the mission I was going on. I had told him that this story of religion was bothering me a little...

I've been aware for over 30 years that LRH chose to make Scientology a religion to further his con.

 

[Harold#1]

The LDS church was and is a con started by an instinctive con artist. That doesn't make it not a religion.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

.

...
It wasn't always that way, back in the 1960s and into the 1970s, only the dumbest people in Scientology regarded Scientology as a religion. All but a few knew the religious pose was a defensive and protective measure....(--snipped--)
.

.
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LOL, that's one of the cult's dirtiest (and dumbest) little secrets!

I vividly recall when Hubbard got scared and began issuing all kinds of policies, bulletins, directives, programs, projects, missions and orders that his for-profit hoax be immediately dressed up with fake religious costumes, fake religious crosses, fake ministers, fake Sunday services, fake scripture, fake churches and fake religious courses and accreditations like "the Minister's Course" where all that was required to become a holy priest was to read a little paperback book briefly describing the "great" religions around the world.

As you correctly remind readers here, the normal reaction from Scientologists at that time was to groan and cringe when such obvious fakery was shamefully (and shamfully) enacted. It was a creepy joke that people put up with, knowing fully well that the "modern science of the mind" did not just suddenly overnight magically transform into a "religion". Scientologists "went along" with the lies and didn't make waves because they didn't want to get booted out before they could retrieve the precious prize in their personal Crackerjack box--magical powers, immortality, total freedom, total happiness, total health, total health and other total dreamy mojo.

It was all sublimely stupid. But the cult's obedient flock "went along to get along".

Then, something even dumber happened! I began to occasionally hear a Hubbardite utter the phrase "my religion" and it was--well--shocking, to say the least. At first I was not sure they weren't joking, that's how absurd it was to witness someone dumb enough to begin parroting the shore story as if it wasn't a tax dodge and cynical black op to avoid civil and criminal liabilities---and perhaps even prevent the hoax from collapsing and being shut down--and Hubbard's personal cash cow to be killed.

"My religion", some began to repeat, just like good little culties obediently doing their Chinese School chanting!

It's still amazing to me to hear clueless people who have looked into the cult of Scientology refer to it as a "religion". LOL.

HELPFUL CLUE: Religions don't have printed price lists, quantity discounts, ticket sellers and cash registers blocking the doors to their places of worship.

FOR THOSE WHO STILL INSIST SCIENTOLOGY IS A RELIGION: Here is a solo auditing process for "resistive cases" that you can do at home! Using Dr. Hubbard's "perceptic wheel" from the Self Analysis book, try to recall a single time either of the cult's two leaders (Hubbard or Miscavige) wore the ministers costume and a cross that they ordered others to wear. If you simply cannot recall one time that ever happened, switch to the "olfactory" perceptic on your disc and see if you perceive that something smells funny about the only two people personally profiting by hundreds of millions of dollars from Scn. "donations" being the only two people who wouldn't be caught dead wearing humiliatingly dorky priest costumes.

.

 

[Harold#1]

"Formerly there were those who said: You believe things that are incomprehensible, inconsistent, impossible because we have commanded you to believe them; go then and do what is injust because we command it. Such people show admirable reasoning. Truly, whoever can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. If the God‐given understanding of your mind does not resist a demand to believe what is impossible, then you will not resist a demand to do wrong to that God‐given sense of justice in your heart. As soon as one faculty of your soul has been dominated, other faculties will follow as well. And from this derives all those crimes of religion which have overrun the world."

Voltaire

 

[Veda]

"David Miscavige, the ecclesiastical leader of the Scientology religion."

Roaming the halls of the empty Super Power Building, the result a twenty+ year fund raising scam, premised on the idea that each Scientologist would "get super powers" if, and only if, a special building were constructed to "deliver" it.
​

.
LOL, that's one of the cult's dirtiest (and dumbest) little secrets!

I vividly recall when Hubbard got scared and began issuing all kinds of policies, bulletins, directives, programs, projects, missions and orders that his for-profit hoax be immediately dressed up with fake religious costumes, fake religious crosses, fake ministers, fake Sunday services, fake scripture, fake churches and fake religious courses and accreditations like "the Minister's Course" where all that was required to become a holy priest was to read a little paperback book briefly describing the "great" religions around the world.

As you correctly remind readers here, the normal reaction from Scientologists at that time was to groan and cringe when such obvious fakery was shamefully (and shamfully) enacted. It was a creepy joke that people put up with, knowing fully well that the "modern science of the mind" did not just suddenly overnight magically transform into a "religion". Scientologists "went along" with the lies and didn't make waves because they didn't want to get booted out before they could retrieve the precious prize in their personal Crackerjack box--magical powers, immortality, total freedom, total happiness, total health, total health and other total dreamy mojo.

It was all sublimely stupid. But the cult's obedient flock "went along to get along".

Then, something even dumber happened! I began to occasionally hear a Hubbardite utter the phrase "my religion" and it was--well--shocking, to say the least. At first I was not sure they weren't joking, that's how absurd it was to witness someone dumb enough to begin parroting the shore story as if it wasn't a tax dodge and cynical black op to avoid civil and criminal liabilities---and perhaps even prevent the hoax from collapsing and being shut down--and Hubbard's personal cash cow to be killed.

"My religion", some began to repeat, just like good little culties obediently doing their Chinese School chanting!

It's still amazing to me to hear clueless people who have looked into the cult of Scientology refer to it as a "religion". LOL.

HELPFUL CLUE: Religions don't have printed price lists, quantity discounts, ticket sellers and cash registers blocking the doors to their places of worship.

FOR THOSE WHO STILL INSIST SCIENTOLOGY IS A RELIGION: Here is a solo auditing process for "resistive cases" that you can do at home! Using Dr. Hubbard's "perceptic wheel" from the Self Analysis book, try to recall a single time either of the cult's two leaders (Hubbard or Miscavige) wore the ministers costume and a cross that they ordered others to wear. If you simply cannot recall one time that ever happened, switch to the "olfactory" perceptic on your disc and see if you perceive that something smells funny about the only two people personally profiting by hundreds of millions of dollars from Scn. "donations" being the only two people who wouldn't be caught dead wearing humiliatingly dorky priest costumes.

.

One oddity is that some people, who dislike Scientology, and also dislike religion, think it's insulting, or somehow detrimental to Scientology, to call Scientology a religion.

Which kind of misses the point.

Scientology Inc. does not really care if some people say it's a bad religion, as long as they say it's a religion.

Edit: typo

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

.

I never noticed before that the architectural motif of the SuperPower building was quite nautical in nature.

All those "ribs" are quite reminiscent of something. . .

A ship's frame, right? Well that's very appropriate to a SEA organization!

Or maybe it's something else nautical with a religious flavor. Noah's Ark, where mankind's most micro maritime messiah Miscavige is saving all life forms aboard his intergalactic ship.

But, wait. Could it be another Biblical reference? Maybe those are not ribs of a ship but ribs of a massive sea-going creature. Is the building paying allegorical homage to the scriptural tale Jonah & the Whale? Very possible, because that $200M pimped-out glitz palace itself was only made possible by whales.

.

 

[Riddick]

Hi everyone,

I've been lurking for a while but thought I'd sign up and say hello. Not an ex-sociologist, just curious to hear experiences.

I'm currently studying sociology and doing a module on religion and cults, and where the dividing line is, and also study psychology, particularly research into conformity. So there's lots of overlap and opportunity to research into Scientology. It's always felt wrong to me to study things like this from a very academic and removed viewpoint - most of my classmates haven't heard ex-scientologist experiences and that's certainly reflected in the way they discuss cults in our lectures. It's a real shame and while your intentions in discussing your experiences probably aren't to help us lot out I am ever so grateful for forums like these in allowing us to remove as many myths + misreporting from academia as possible.

Very nice to meet you all, especially anyone else who's from the UK!

you should probably read Le Bon's works on the crowd. Still applies today. L Ron Hubbard even read Le Bon's books so did Hilter and a few others. I don't know if other religious leaders or cult leaders read Le Bon or not. But the principles outlined by Le Bon seem to hold true even today. Check it out.

Social media via twitter and online message boards of various forms can create a crowd ( or a cult, religion, group, etc).

"In its ordinary sense the word "crowd" means a gathering of individuals of whatever nationality, profession, or sex, and whatever be the chances that have brought them together. From the psychological point of view the expression "crowd" assumes quite a different signification. Under certain given circumstances, and only under those circumstances, an agglomeration of men presents new characteristics very different from those of the individuals composing it. The sentiments and ideas of all the persons in the gathering take one and the same direction, and their conscious personality vanishes. A collective mind is formed, doubtless transitory, but presenting very clearly defined characteristics. The gathering has thus become what, in the absence of a better expression, I will call an organised crowd, or, if the term is considered preferable, a psychological crowd. It forms a single being, and is subjected to the LAW OF THE MENTAL UNITY OF CROWDS. "

Above quote from:

https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/445/pg445.html

 

[Riddick]

you should probably read Le Bon's works on the crowd. Still applies today. L Ron Hubbard even read Le Bon's books so did Hilter and a few others. I don't know if other religious leaders or cult leaders read Le Bon or not. But the principles outlined by Le Bon seem to hold true even today. Check it out.

Social media via twitter and online message boards of various forms can create a crowd ( or a cult, religion, group, etc).

"In its ordinary sense the word "crowd" means a gathering of individuals of whatever nationality, profession, or sex, and whatever be the chances that have brought them together. From the psychological point of view the expression "crowd" assumes quite a different signification. Under certain given circumstances, and only under those circumstances, an agglomeration of men presents new characteristics very different from those of the individuals composing it. The sentiments and ideas of all the persons in the gathering take one and the same direction, and their conscious personality vanishes. A collective mind is formed, doubtless transitory, but presenting very clearly defined characteristics. The gathering has thus become what, in the absence of a better expression, I will call an organised crowd, or, if the term is considered preferable, a psychological crowd. It forms a single being, and is subjected to the LAW OF THE MENTAL UNITY OF CROWDS. "

Above quote from:

https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/445/pg445.html

another book you can read is called English Rhetoric if you are interested in how did Hubbard do it, LOL, it was the book that Hubbard read and used to develop his writing skills to persuade people. He read it (in college) and followed it's general principles to create dianetics and scientology to persuade, via writing or speaking in recorded lectures.

English rhetoric : Wilbur, William Allen, 1864-1945 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

ix, 315 p. 24 cm

archive.org

 

[programmer_guy]

Yes. rhetoric is half of the story.

For auditing EP ("cog, VGIs, F/N") then brain neuroscience (e.g. endorphins) explains the other half of the story.

(No, I am not defending Hubbard's pseudo-science.)

 

[JeansAndRice]

Hi everyone,

I've been lurking for a while but thought I'd sign up and say hello. Not an ex-sociologist, just curious to hear experiences.

I'm currently studying sociology and doing a module on religion and cults, and where the dividing line is, and also study psychology, particularly research into conformity. So there's lots of overlap and opportunity to research into Scientology. It's always felt wrong to me to study things like this from a very academic and removed viewpoint - most of my classmates haven't heard ex-scientologist experiences and that's certainly reflected in the way they discuss cults in our lectures. It's a real shame and while your intentions in discussing your experiences probably aren't to help us lot out I am ever so grateful for forums like these in allowing us to remove as many myths + misreporting from academia as possible.

Very nice to meet you all, especially anyone else who's from the UK!

Hi! I'm also new. I'm an ex-scientologist (born and raised) and I've been doing a lot of reading, writing and research lately into some of the sociological aspects of this cult.
I just finished reading this e-book which has some great insight into how the layers solidify membership (and conformity) as you go inward. Also Chapter 22 of Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism by Robert Jay Lifton (and probably the whole book, but I haven't read the whole book.) I think the importance of political and psychological methods of thought control cannot be understated as a reference to Scientology and its practices; communist dictatorships tend to display a high level of conformity via control.

 

[Zertel]

Maybe just to be a bit contrary about whether or not Scn is a religion, Hubbard/Scn does in fact make a statement about the Supreme Being. I'm transcribing this from an early "Scientology Technical Dictionary".

[DYNAMICS, there could be said to be eight urges (drives, impulses) in life. These we call dynamics. These are motives or motivations. We call them the eight dynamics. . . . . . . . . . . .

The eighth dynamic - is the urge toward existence as infinity. This is also identified as the Supreme Being. It is carefully observed here that the science of Scn does not intrude into the dynamic of the Supreme Being. This is called the eighth dynamic because the symbol of infinity stood upright makes the numeral "8". This can be called the infinity or God dynamic. (FOT, pp. 36-38)]

FOT is an abbreviation for the book "Fundamentals Of Thought" by L. Ron Hubbard.

I'm defining FOT as an explanation to fraz who started this thread and is studying sociology and doing a module on religion and cults. If fraz is still around I hope he/she is learning something and enjoying the conversation. laughter

 

[Zertel]

Hi! I'm also new. I'm an ex-scientologist (born and raised) and I've been doing a lot of reading, writing and research lately into some of the sociological aspects of this cult.
I just finished reading this e-book which has some great insight into how the layers solidify membership (and conformity) as you go inward. Also Chapter 22 of Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism by Robert Jay Lifton (and probably the whole book, but I haven't read the whole book.) I think the importance of political and psychological methods of thought control cannot be understated as a reference to Scientology and its practices; communist dictatorships tend to display a high level of conformity via control.

Hey JeansAndRice - I like your avatar - thumbs up - lol

 

[guanoloco]

Hi! I'm also new. I'm an ex-scientologist (born and raised) and I've been doing a lot of reading, writing and research lately into some of the sociological aspects of this cult.
I just finished reading this e-book which has some great insight into how the layers solidify membership (and conformity) as you go inward. Also Chapter 22 of Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism by Robert Jay Lifton (and probably the whole book, but I haven't read the whole book.) I think the importance of political and psychological methods of thought control cannot be understated as a reference to Scientology and its practices; communist dictatorships tend to display a high level of conformity via control.

That parallels what's occurring on U.S. college campuses, in the media and with conformists thought-control enforced by cancel culture, shaming and other cultic practices.

 

[Veda]

Maybe just to be a bit contrary about whether or not Scn is a religion, Hubbard/Scn does in fact make a statement about the Supreme Being. I'm transcribing this from an early "Scientology Technical Dictionary".

[DYNAMICS, there could be said to be eight urges (drives, impulses) in life. These we call dynamics. These are motives or motivations. We call them the eight dynamics. . . . . . . . . . . .

The eighth dynamic - is the urge toward existence as infinity. This is also identified as the Supreme Being. It is carefully observed here that the science of Scn does not intrude into the dynamic of the Supreme Being. This is called the eighth dynamic because the symbol of infinity stood upright makes the numeral "8". This can be called the infinity or God dynamic. (FOT, pp. 36-38)]

FOT is an abbreviation for the book "Fundamentals Of Thought" by L. Ron Hubbard.

I'm defining this as an explanation to fraz who started this thread and is studying sociology and doing a module on religion and cults. If fraz is still around I hope he/she is learning something and enjoying the conversation. laughter

If fraz is still around, Hubbard regarded prevaricating - lying - as an ability. In 1951, anticipating a messy divorce, Hubbard wrote (in a book meant for the broad public) about how bad abortion was (or at least gave that impression); after the divorce, in 1952, Hubbard, before a group of eager Scientologists, enthused about the ease of do-it-yourself abortion.

Sexual promiscuity was condemned in 1951 and celebrated in 1952.

In 1950/51 Hubbard wrote about how bad consumption of alcohol was, that it was worse than many drugs. By 1952, Hubbard was explaining, in a lecture, that one should able able to drink as much liqueur as one wants, and use the body in any way one wants.

1950/51: Hubbard wrote - albeit briefly - about how belief in God is important to a society. By 1952, Hubbard was explaining that believing in God was a sign of severe degradation and aberration.

Hubbard said and wrote different things depending on his audience.

This approach was first detailed by Hubbard during March 1955 - in the wake of the activation of his "religion angle" - in the Manual on Dissemination of Material.

To a Scientologist this would not be regarded as dishonest, but simply a matter of applying easy gradients.

Maybe just to be a bit contrary about whether or not Scn is a religion, Hubbard/Scn does in fact make a statement about the Supreme Being. I'm transcribing this from an early "Scientology Technical Dictionary".

[DYNAMICS, there could be said to be eight urges (drives, impulses) in life. These we call dynamics. These are motives or motivations. We call them the eight dynamics. . . . . . . . . . . .

The eighth dynamic - is the urge toward existence as infinity. This is also identified as the Supreme Being. It is carefully observed here that the science of Scn does not intrude into the dynamic of the Supreme Being. This is called the eighth dynamic because the symbol of infinity stood upright makes the numeral "8". This can be called the infinity or God dynamic. (FOT, pp. 36-38)]

FOT is an abbreviation for the book "Fundamentals Of Thought" by L. Ron Hubbard.

I'm defining this as an explanation to fraz who started this thread and is studying sociology and doing a module on religion and cults. If fraz is still around I hope he/she is learning something and enjoying the conversation. laughter

 

[Zertel]

If fraz is still around, Hubbard regarded prevaricating - lying - as an ability. In 1951, anticipating a messy divorce, Hubbard wrote (in a book meant for the broad public) about how bad abortion was (or at least gave that impression); after the divorce, in 1952, Hubbard, before a group of eager Scientologists, enthused about the ease of do-it-yourself abortion.

Sexual promiscuity was condemned in 1951 and celebrated in 1952.

In 1950/51 Hubbard wrote about how bad consumption of alcohol was, that it was worse than many drugs. By 1952, Hubbard was explaining, in a lecture, that one should able able to drink as much liqueur as one wants, and use the body in any way one wants.

1950/51: Hubbard wrote - albeit briefly - about how belief in God is important to a society. By 1952, Hubbard was explaining that believing in God was a sign of severe degradation and aberration.

Hubbard said and wrote different things depending on his audience.

This approach was first detailed by Hubbard during March 1955 - in the wake of the activation of his "religion angle" - in the Manual on Dissemination of Material.

To a Scientologist this would not be regarded as dishonest, but simply a matter of applying easy gradients.

I decided to take a quick look at the dissemination manual you posted. It turns out it was a 24 page manual which automatically download to my computer tablet! Laughter
It had a lot of his ideas and directions about the organizational structure at the time.

Hubbard was definitely busy working his religion angle in Phoenix in 1955.

At a quick scan regarding dissemination it looks like he's telling everybody to say whatever it takes to get them in! If somebody is sick and they need immediate medical attention get them to a doctor. Otherwise get them to Scientology.

 

[JeansAndRice]

That parallels what's occurring on U.S. college campuses, in the media and with conformists thought-control enforced by cancel culture, shaming and other cultic practices.

Yes! I would agree that cancel culture and shaming are in line with the tools of cults re: ex-communication, and conformity by fear of exile.