Jon Atack: "I Was a Level 5 Scientologist. Then I Found What Scientology and Nazis Actually Share"

[Type4_PTS]

Description Below Video:

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What if the roots of modern cults, extremist politics, and even today’s “wellness” movements trace back to Nazi occultism, hypnotic manipulation, and one of the most controversial religions in the world?

In this explosive episode of Mayim Bialik's Breakdown, Jon Atack — the world’s leading expert on authoritarian cults and a former Scientologist who has spent over 40 years investigating its origins — reveals the shocking connections no one talks about. Drawing from his groundbreaking book If Scientology Ruled the World: Nazi Occultists, Sex Magick, Space Aliens, and the Second Coming, Jon uncovers how occult beliefs influenced the Nazi Party… and how those same ideas shaped Scientology.

Jon Atack breaks down:

• How L. Ron Hubbard repackaged occult practices (including hypnotic techniques, repetition, fixation, and mimicry) and sold them as revolutionary “science”
• Outlandish promises that hooked followers: supernatural powers, immunity to illness, genius-level IQ, emotional mastery
• How Hubbard’s early interest in psychology morphed into the darker techniques behind Dianetics
• Hidden factors in Hubbard’s personal life (addiction, PTSD, and legal trouble for practicing medicine without a license) that shaped what Scientology would become
• Allegations of how followers were treated, including psychological and physical abuse
• Frightening recourse Jon himself faced for speaking out

Jon also shares his deeply personal story of joining, and ultimately escaping, Scientology. He reveals the major red flags he ignored at first… and the first warning sign you should always look for before joining any movement or ideology. But this conversation goes far beyond Scientology. We also cover:

• What actually defines a cult or authoritarian group
• How recruitment tactics are now supercharged by the internet and social media
• Where dangerous occult practices are still hiding in plain sight
• Surprising benefits and dangers of hypnotherapy
• How to distinguish modern spirituality from manipulative occult systems
• Why today’s political climate often mirrors cult dynamics
• Why healthy skepticism might be the most important survival skill of the digital age

This isn’t about throwing away all ideology or spirituality. It’s about learning how to extract the good without falling for manipulation.

If you care about psychology, cults, spirituality, politics, authoritarian movements, mind control, or the hidden forces shaping modern society…this is a conversation you cannot afford to miss.
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00:00 - Intro
05:14 - Dianetics Origins Exposed
11:27 - Freud Trance Techniques
22:24 - Scientology Goals & Ties to Alistair Crowley
25:13 - Atack Joins Scientology
29:35 - Miscavige Violence & Exit
34:39 - Costs of Being a Scientologist
38:26 - Euphoria & Hypnosis
54:47 - Occult Beliefs in Nazism
01:00:27 - How Absurd Beliefs Kill
01:03:12 - Dark Side of Mindfulness
01:06:15 - Agency Over Gurus
01:11:58 - Awe as Manipulation
01:12:58 - Scientology Retaliation Tactics
01:22:53 - Internet Disinformation Pipeline
01:29:05 - Occult vs Psi Claims
01:37:45 - Beliefs, Politics, & Hate

 

[Type4_PTS]

This is Jon Atack's book, with a link to it on Amazon:




If Scientology Ruled the World: Nazi Occultists, Sex Magick, Space Aliens, and the Second Coming

Amazon.com: If Scientology Ruled the World: Nazi Occultists, Sex Magick, Space Aliens, and the Second Coming: 9798264753671: Atack, Jon: Books

Amazon.com: If Scientology Ruled the World: Nazi Occultists, Sex Magick, Space Aliens, and the Second Coming: 9798264753671: Atack, Jon: Books

www.amazon.com

A frightening look into an alarming possible future – and a deep dive into the history that could lead us there.

What links Adolf Hitler, L. Ron Hubbard, aliens from Outer Space, and Aleister Crowley? This groundbreaking book reveals Scientology’s sinister historical ties to the occult beliefs of the Nazis with footnotes, references and receipts.

If you want to understand the common root of Scientology and Nazism, as well as how the Nazis actually disproved their own Aryan Race Theory, this is a book you won't want to miss!

“Jon Atack’s thoroughly researched chapters take us inexorably to the conclusion that the same basic ideas about race, domination, and pursuit of godlike powers came to inform both Hubbard and his bizarre Space Age church, but also the Aryan-obsessed fever dreams of Heinrich Himmler and his boss, Adolf Hitler.”
~ Tony Ortega, former editor of the Village Voice



Here's one of the reviews from a reader on Amazon:

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Sorry but I'm not comfortable with seeing Steiner brought into this (especially he is linked with Heinrich Himmler in the same sentence as the Nazi regime).

I knew quite a few people in the Anthroposophical movement when I was in EG, and none of them were remotely Nazi as far as I could tell. I also had a Steiner-trained doctor (in fact two of them) and for a while went to a Saturday morning art class at the Tobias School of Art, run on Steiner's principles.

I only stopped reading Steiner's books myself because I came across another source of the same ideas that I found much easier to read (the White Eagle Lodge, which was in the same library).

The late Barry Long, whose opinion I respected on spiritual matters (I went to his talks in London in 1987, just after I attested to Clear) once described him as "a man of great knowledge."

If this comes from Jon, maybe I should communicate with him about it.

 

[Type4_PTS]

Sorry but I'm not comfortable with seeing Steiner brought into this (especially he is linked with Heinrich Himmler in the same sentence as the Nazi regime).

I knew quite a few people in the Anthroposophical movement when I was in EG, and none of them were remotely Nazi as far as I could tell. I also had a Steiner-trained doctor (in fact two of them) and for a while went to a Saturday morning art class at the Tobias School of Art, run on Steiner's principles.

I only stopped reading Steiner's books myself because I came across another source of the same ideas that I found much easier to read (the White Eagle Lodge, which was in the same library).

The late Barry Long, whose opinion I respected on spiritual matters (I went to his talks in London in 1987, just after I attested to Clear) once described him as "a man of great knowledge."

If this comes from Jon, maybe I should communicate with him about it.

I asked Claude.ai
What was said in the video by Jon Atack about Rudolph Steiner?

Claude:
Based on the transcript, Jon Atack mentioned Rudolf Steiner only briefly and in passing. He noted that Steiner was the founder of anthroposophy and led one of the two German Theosophical societies at the time — the other being led by Dr. Franz Hartman. That's the full extent of what was said about Steiner in this episode — just a single sentence establishing him as a parallel figure in the German theosophical world of that era, with no further elaboration or commentary on him or his work.

Type4:
Was anything else said in the video about Steiner from the other speakers?


Claude:
No, nothing else was said about Rudolf Steiner by any of the speakers. The single brief mention by Jon Atack was the only reference to Steiner in the entire transcript. The hosts — Miami Aik and Jonathan Cohen — did not follow up on or ask any questions about him, and Steiner's name did not come up again at any other point in the conversation.


Type4:
What has Jon Atack said elsewhere about Steiner?


Claude:
My knowledge of Jon Atack's specific views on Rudolf Steiner outside of this transcript is limited — I don't have reliable detailed records of everything he has written or said across his books, YouTube channel (which he mentions has over 600 videos), articles, or other interviews.

What I can tell you is that given Atack's deep research into the theosophical and occult roots of both Nazism and Scientology, and given that Steiner was a significant figure in German theosophy before breaking away to found his own movement (anthroposophy), it would be reasonable to expect that Atack has addressed Steiner more thoroughly in his other work — but I wouldn't want to speculate or put words in his mouth without a reliable source.

To find out what Atack has actually said about Steiner elsewhere, I'd suggest:

• His YouTube channel — searchable under "Jon family and friends" as mentioned in the episode
• His website — jonatack.co.uk
• His book If Scientology Ruled the World — which may contain more on Steiner given his role in the theosophical lineage the book traces
• His earlier book Let's Sell These People a Piece of Blue Sky — his history of Scientology

 

[Type4_PTS]

Here's an AI-generated summary of the video by Claude:

The episode of My Alex Breakdown opens with hosts Miami Aik and Jonathan Cohen introducing their guest, John Atack — a former nine-year Scientologist, researcher, and author who has spent four decades investigating the origins of Scientology. The conversation centers on his book If Scientology Ruled the World: Nazi Occultists, Sex Magic, Space Aliens, and the Second Coming, which argues that Scientology and Nazism share a common occult lineage traceable to 19th-century theosophy, particularly the writings of Helena Petrovna Blavatsky. Atack describes Scientology at its core as a massive scam built on two promises — the ability to control others through "intention" and the ability to leave one's body and travel the universe — both of which he traces directly to the work of occultist Aleister Crowley. He describes the approximately 4,000 members of Scientology's Sea Organization as effectively living as slaves, deprived of sleep, proper food, adequate pay, and even the right to have children.

Atack then walks through the history of how L. Ron Hubbard constructed Scientology, beginning with Dianetics in 1950. He explains that Hubbard's very first written description of his techniques — in a 1949 letter to his literary agent — made no mention of therapeutic benefit whatsoever, focusing instead on money-making and control. Hubbard borrowed the core therapeutic technique of revisiting past trauma from Freud and from World War II-era psychiatric research, but Freud himself had already identified the method's fundamental flaw: rather than liberating patients, it made them increasingly dependent. When Dianetics failed to produce the results Hubbard had promised, he pivoted to introducing past lives and reincarnation — drawn directly from Crowley's Magical Memory — eventually constructing an elaborate cosmology involving the evil galactic overlord Xenu, 176 planets, and 75-million-year-old hypnotic implants. Atack describes his own journey through Scientology's upper levels, spending the equivalent of roughly $17,000–$18,000 in today's money on levels OT3 through OT5 and experiencing no supernatural results whatsoever.

The conversation then broadens into the shared occult roots of both Scientology and Nazism. Atack traces the lineage from Blavatsky through Franz Hartman — one of the founders of the Ordo Templi Orientis, the group Crowley would later take over — and through the Thule Society, whose members included the founders of the Nazi party. He emphasizes that Heinrich Himmler's occult beliefs were not a fringe personal hobby but directly shaped Nazi policy, including the order to exterminate tens of millions of Slavs during Operation Barbarossa. His central thesis, paraphrased from Voltaire, is that absurd beliefs can lead to atrocious behaviors. The hosts and Atack also discuss how these same mechanisms of manipulation — hypnotic induction, euphoric altered states, the manufacturing of awe and dependency — are present in many religious and spiritual traditions, and persist today through internet-based recruitment by authoritarian groups. Atack closes by urging people to preserve their own agency, maintain compassionate skepticism, and be wary of any system — political, religious, or spiritual — that asks them to hate or diminish others.
Top 25 Most Important Takeaways

1. Scientology was built on cynicism, not therapy. Hubbard's first written mention of his techniques (1949) was about making money and controlling people — not helping them.
2. Both Nazism and Scientology share occult roots. Both movements trace back to the same 19th-century theosophical traditions, particularly the writings of Helena Petrovna Blavatsky.
3. Hubbard borrowed heavily from Aleister Crowley. Scientology's core concepts — raising "intention" to control others and astral projection — were reframings of Crowley's Thelema philosophy.
4. The Nazis' founding circle was steeped in occultism. Key Nazi founders (including Rudolf Hess and Dietrich Eckart) were members of the Thule Society, a German occult group with direct links to Blavatsky's theosophical tradition.
5. Blavatsky's "Aryan race" theory became the intellectual seed of Nazi racial ideology. Her book The Secret Doctrine introduced the idea of a superior Aryan race that lost its powers through interbreeding — a concept the Nazis weaponized.
6. Heinrich Himmler used meditation and occult ritual to train SS officers. He modeled his castle on the Arthurian Round Table and integrated yoga and mystical ceremonies into SS indoctrination.
7. Absurd beliefs can lead to atrocious behaviors. This is Atack's central thesis: Himmler's occult beliefs directly enabled his order to kill tens of millions of Slavs during Operation Barbarossa.
8. Scientology's Sea Organization members live like slaves. Roughly 4,000 members are not allowed to have children, are sleep-deprived, underpaid, and controlled.
9. Hubbard's claims about himself were entirely fabricated. He was not a war hero, did not study with Eastern gurus, had no PhD, and was not a nuclear physicist — all lies documented by journalists.
10. The "therapeutic" techniques in Dianetics are hypnotic, not scientific. Freud himself identified the technique's flaw: it creates dependency rather than healing.
11. Feeling good is not the same as getting better. Scientology induces euphoric hypnotic states that feel beneficial but can increase narcissism and damage relationships.
12. Euphoria induced by altered states creates trust and imprinting. Once someone experiences bliss under a teacher's guidance, they tend to trust that teacher unconditionally — the basis of both healthy and abusive relationships.
13. Meditation and mindfulness are not inherently safe. Zen schools formally apologized for teaching meditation to the Japanese Imperial Army, which carried out massacres. Mindfulness can induce psychotic episodes in some people.
14. The key protection against manipulation is preserving personal agency. Philosopher Krishnamurti's advice: "Don't join anything." Always maintain your own locus of control and healthy skepticism.
15. The Church of Scientology uses coordinated harassment against critics. Atack was followed by private detectives, had false criminal allegations spread about him, his home broken into, and social services called on fabricated child abuse claims.
16. Scientology's upper levels cost enormous sums with zero verifiable results. Atack spent the equivalent of ~$17,000–$18,000 (in today's money) on levels OT3–OT5 and experienced no supernatural benefits.
17. The "Xenu" story is the secret core of Scientology. Members only learn that 75 million years ago an evil galactic overlord blew up 176 planets' populations in volcanoes after paying for advanced levels.
18. The occult is still actively present in modern society. 80% of self-identified atheists in a 1990s survey still believed in magic and the supernatural — belief in the occult is a near-universal human tendency.
19. The internet has accelerated cult recruitment. Groups no longer need physical campuses; they recruit online, and figures like Stefan Molyneux and Andrew Tate have used the internet to build dangerous followings.
20. What feels supernatural often has a physiological explanation. Chanting, fasting, sleep deprivation, hyperventilation, and staring can all induce euphoric altered states that people mistake for spiritual experiences.
21. Scientific studies on meditation are largely weak. Of 3,000 meditation studies reviewed, only ~32 were considered scientifically valid, according to the editor of the Oxford Handbook of Meditation.
22. Freud and Jung caused significant harm by claiming scientific authority they didn't have. Neither proved their methods worked, yet built powerful cult followings that suppressed legitimate criticism.
23. The Nazi genocide did not begin with Jews. It started with the mentally ill and disabled — rooted in eugenics and a belief in racial "perfection" that shares structural similarities with Scientology's ideology.
24. Forced sterilization rooted in similar ideologies persists today. In China, up to 80% of Uyghur women were targeted for sterilization; one gynecologist admitted to performing 80 sterilizations per day.
25. The antidote to manipulation is compassion, critical thinking, and humility. Atack's core message: start from universal compassion, be wary of any belief system that asks you to hate others, and never surrender your reasoning to a group or leader.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Is this the way the board is going from now on - AI answers becoming the last word to everything?

OK, let's take the fact that the Nazis used occult rituals to train their officers. This can be read in two ways;

1 / Occult tools - bad (which I think is the take away from what Jon is saying)

or

2 / Occult tools - very powerful, and if misused will bring doom upon their abusers.

I go with the second one. We saw this with the Nazis. Their "glorious Reich" was supposed to last 1,000 years, but in fact it only lasted 12 and then was destroyed - Alan Oken says it was "annihilated by the rebound force of its own terrible negativity".

I actually see Nazism, and extremist political movements more generally including communism, as a consequence of "mixing up planes" between the physical - where we do and have to live - with the astral and possibly higher planes.

People who hold such views intuit that somewhere there is a better and much more rewarding world than the one we live in, and then convince themselves that that world can exist and be grounded here if only we would remove the impediments to it - the Jews, the Capitalists, the liberals. the conservatives, etc. etc.

It is a very seductive way to think and that's why people keep falling for it.

And I doubt that AI will tell you that.

 

[Hatshepsut]

Some links are messed with lately. I don't know if it's OSA or random hackers, but I get audio saying Warning Warning you have hit a virus please contact us....blah blah. One is Facebook redirect for Tony Ortega regarding the memorial website for David Mayo after his death. It displays the entry page image of David hiking the mountain in New Zealand with that long stick. Another is the LRH materials archive. It has been hacked also. For a C of S who wants to disseminate, it seems someone is really into protecting any future money for the trust.

 

[Type4_PTS]

Is this the way the board is going from now on - AI answers becoming the last word to everything?

I had no intention of using AI; I just posted the video in the OP.

But when you wrote:
Sorry but I'm not comfortable with seeing Steiner brought into this (especially he is linked with Heinrich Himmler in the same sentence as the Nazi regime)...
I took a minute to use AI to show you exactly what was said in the video about Steiner.

And since I already had a transcription, I asked for a summary in case anyone was interested. (For anyone who actually watched the video, the summary is unnecessary).

AI isn't the last word on anything, but for some people who don't have time to watch a one or two-hour video, it is better than nothing.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

OK PTS, fair point. I suppose I got up a bit of a head of steam over the Steiner, Himmler = Nazi thing.

Sorry.

By the way, I'm not saying Steiner was perfect. I never quite trust people without a sense of humour, and as far as I could see he didn't have one at all.

 

[Type4_PTS]

OK PTS, fair point. I suppose I got up a bit of a head of steam over the Steiner, Himmler = Nazi thing.

Sorry.

Yeah, that came from a random review of the book someone posted on Amazon and I just copy/pasted it into the thread.

I'm really completely unfamiliar with Steiner, so it wasn't something I posted because I agreed with it.

 

[Lee #28]

I can recall one Tape Play.....where LRH talks about wrapping a towel around his head and playing at being a Swami, in Hollywood. That would be pre-dianetic days....

Kinda ties in.

Oh....and that Moon Child stuff...

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Yeah, that came from a random review of the book someone posted on Amazon and I just copy/pasted it into the thread.

I'm really completely unfamiliar with Steiner, so it wasn't something I posted because I agreed with it.

Fair enough. I've tried to report that review on Amazon as inappropriate, but there is no provision for saying why you think comments in a review are misleading, so I got stuck and just let it go.

IMO, if somebody came across that review and didn't know anything about Steiner or Anthroposophy they would clearly think that the reviewer was saying that Steiner was a figure in the Nazi hierarchy, whether the reviewer meant to imply that or not,

 

[TheSneakster]

Atack's claim is possibly the most blatant example of Godwin's law of Nazi analogies I've seen in a very long time.

 

[I M Dex]

Atack's claim is possibly the most blatant example of Godwin's law of Nazi analogies I've seen in a very long time.

Well, after all, he was a "level five Scientologist".

 

[TheSneakster]

Well, after all, he was a "level five Scientologist".

He's being touted as "the world’s leading expert on authoritarian cults".

No. That would be Steve Hassan, Ph.D. ( Freedom of Mind Resource Center )

 

[I M Dex]

He's being touted as "the world’s leading expert on authoritarian cults".

No. That would be Steve Hassan, Ph.D. ( Freedom of Mind Resource Center )

That would be a mythical title anyway, being subjective.

 

[guanoloco]

He's being touted as "the world’s leading expert on authoritarian cults".

No. That would be Steve Hassan, Ph.D. ( Freedom of Mind Resource Center )

Here's the problem with Hassan:

Steven Hassan, a licensed mental health counselor and former member of the Unification Church ("Moonies"), applies his BITE Model of Authoritarian Control to the MAGA (Make America Great Again) movement, arguing that it functions as a destructive, leader-focused cult. Hassan posits that Donald Trump uses mind control techniques similar to those used by dictators and cult leaders like Jim Jones or L. Ron Hubbard.


Hassan is in a cult. I don't know if I know any MAGA, per se, but I know a shit ton that voted for Trump and many have MAGA hats. None of them are in a cult of MAGA or Trump.

Meanwhile, Ketanji Jackson, a Supreme Court Justice, can't define "woman" because she's not a biologist.

 

[I M Dex]

Here's the problem with Hassan:

Steven Hassan, a licensed mental health counselor and former member of the Unification Church ("Moonies"), applies his BITE Model of Authoritarian Control to the MAGA (Make America Great Again) movement, arguing that it functions as a destructive, leader-focused cult. Hassan posits that Donald Trump uses mind control techniques similar to those used by dictators and cult leaders like Jim Jones or L. Ron Hubbard.


Hassan is in a cult. I don't know if I know any MAGA, per se, but I know a shit ton that voted for Trump and many have MAGA hats. None of them are in a cult of MAGA or Trump.

Meanwhile, Ketanji Jackson, a Supreme Court Justice, can't define "woman" because she's not a biologist.

I have no doubt that MAGA extremists who believe in and defend Trump in all things and concoct and/or voice and support absurd conspiracy theories to dismiss and/or explain away every foible, ridiculous claim, misstatement, conviction and misbehavior to of a mindset virtually identical to those Scientologists who are the same way about Hubbard, and I can't help but notice the broad overlap between the two. That being said, I think Hassan has some, but not absolute credibility. Anyone claiming to be "the ultimate authority" is at best naive and self-serving.

 

[TheSneakster]

Anyone claiming to be "the ultimate authority" is at best naive and self-serving.

Well then it's a very good thing Steve Hassan has never done that, that I've ever seen.

 

[guanoloco]

I have no doubt that MAGA extremists who believe in and defend Trump in all things and concoct and/or voice and support absurd conspiracy theories to dismiss and/or explain away every foible, ridiculous claim, misstatement, conviction and misbehavior to of a mindset virtually identical to those Scientologists who are the same way about Hubbard, and I can't help but notice the broad overlap between the two. That being said, I think Hassan has some, but not absolute credibility. Anyone claiming to be "the ultimate authority" is at best naive and self-serving.

You'll have to do a fuck ton better than that. That's merely conjecture...and, like assholes, everybody has one.

Let's apply critical thinking and establish it:

Let's say Ron comes up with Cal-Mag, or 10-Augs, or Touch Assists.

How many Scientologisits are going to be anti-Cal-Maggers or anti-10-Auggers or anti-Touch Assisters?

That would be a fat zero.

However, Trump came up with covid vaccines. That was his baby and he's, as far as I know, still pro vax.

Meanwhile, conservatives and, especially, the MAGA movement is anti-vaxx.

Next, consider some stupid shit like "other fish to fry". That's where the cult guru or the cult OL - as in Opinion Leader - coins some phrase and, like good automatons, the cult marionettes get busy parroting it.

I'll worry about MAGAts when I start to hear things like "bigly" or something coming out of their mouths.

Meanwhile, Ketanji Jackson has the cult arm so far up her ass she's busy muppeting comments like "I'm not a biologist".

Straight up cult.

The first time I heard this was a couple years prior to her Supreme Court vetting where it was a Fakebook video of a woman at a swim meet bitchin' about a trans athlete or something and the college cult lib tries to pull that on her with "how do you know what a woman is, are you a biologist?"

Her retort was "I'm not a veterinarian but I know what a dog is".

This biologist crap is straight up cult and the cult fanatics talk it with a whole retinue of lexicon wordology.

So, unless you can come up with factual actuals instead of conjectures, I say Hassan is full of shit.