Scientology is COLLAPSING!?

[I M Dex]

Fascinating to think about. The lack of defectors may mean that Miscavige has turned the cult into even more of a mind-controlling prison than it was before.

Or maybe the air's out of the balloon already, and all or most of the people who much of a sense of self, any strength of character and self-respect, and/or aren't tethered by having their loved ones intransigently plugged into the cult have already walked away.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

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Fascinating to think about. The lack of defectors may mean that Miscavige has turned the cult into even more of a mind-controlling prison than it was before.

.
Interesting!

I once wondered what would have happened if ANY ONE (1) of Hubbard's miraculous technological breakthroughs had actually produced a miracle. For example, what if in the cult's 75 years, just one (1) person had gone exterior one (1) time—and that event was witnessed by a panel of experts under controlled scientific conditions, as well as being captured on film. Well! That would have been playing on the internet and in the lobbies of Scientology orgs 24/7.

And it would have recruited upwards of perhaps 30m-50m new Scientologists from around the world. Game changer!

However, sadly for cult believers, over three-quarters of a century not even one (1) miracle was ever produced.

Don't worry, I am getting to the point. LOL.

My point is this: I say that one (1) part of the tech DID work! And that one (1) part DID produce a miracle! The SP tech.

This is the answer to your observation about the "lack of defectors".

The PTS/SP tech worked.

The Church of Scientology identified and declared the SPs.

Fortunately (per Ron's tech) SPs only comprise 2.5% of the population.

Ergo, all ethical Scientologists disconnected from the SPs.

This scientifically explains why 97.5% of Scientologists eventually blow.

That is how they disconnect from the 2.5% (who remain inside the orgs, manning the sinking hoax)




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[TheSneakster]

The lack of defectors may mean that Miscavige has turned the cult into even more of a mind-controlling prison than it was before.

You just assume a lack of defectors.

I'm sorry, but where exactly do you imagine reliable statistics of staff having left the C of $ might come from ?

The fact that any given person has blown or routed off staff isn't made public information by the C of $, unless they happen to speak out publicly against the Co$. That means the information has to come to us from the person who left. If said person is hiding from the C of $ blow drill recovery teams, I reckon they aren't too likely to risk giving away their whereabouts.

There have been people (like Janis Gillham Grady) who left C of $ but could not speak out for many years, because their family was being used as hostages by David Miscavige, as well.

 

[I M Dex]

You just assume a lack of defectors.

I'm sorry, but where exactly do you imagine reliable statistics of staff having left the C of $ might come from ?

Maybe somebody could come up with an app for that.

 

[Reyne Mayer]

Fascinating to think about. The lack of defectors may mean that Miscavige has turned the cult into even more of a mind-controlling prison than it was before.

i think there's some of that going on -- including a mix of there just being fewer people to start with so that numbers coming out are smaller, and it being down to dead-enders less likely to leave.

plus it seems from what i've seen that it may be the case that those who remain tend to be of a type not to pay much attention to numbers, not grasping how abysmal then are while still in, but after having left not being able to tell us much useful about them.

i also suspect that those who really know much anything and have had access to key statistics, are after Debbie Cook and Marty Rathbun being given 'retirement' packages whose payments and tied to their remaining in compliance with NDAs.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

i think there's some of that going on -- including a mix of there just being fewer people to start with so that numbers coming out are smaller, and it being down to dead-enders less likely to leave. plus it seems from what i've seen that it may be the case that those who remain tend to be of a type not to pay much attention to numbers, not grasping how abysmal then are while still in, but after having left not being able to tell us much useful about them.

That resonates! Even during the more optimistically golden eras of Scientology's expansion (with Hubbard at the helm) people working in the orgs proper were most often TOTALLY OBLIVIOUS to the stats of any other post than their own. This is common sense since their next "Liberty" (day or morning off work) was fully contingent on THEIR OWN STATS being up.

For example, let's say the staff member did NOT have any time off (while working slave hours 7 days a week) because their stats were not good enough. So they didn't have a moment "off" for perhaps 7 months. The staff alternated with their windows of opportunity to take a moment off work for themselves. In the Sea Org, staff was divided into 2 groups. Port & Starboard. Arbitrary assignments, as it would have been done on the Apollo and other cult ships. They carried that practice to land. So, staff did NOT have a window of opportunity to take even a morning off of work every week. Only every OTHER week depending on whether they were PORT or STARBOARD (left and right side of a ship).

If the staff members stats SOARED UP, but it was not 'their week" they could not take any time off.

That's how a staff member can get very unlucky and go 7 months or 17 months without a moment away from their post.

Once i ran into such a implant station while on staff. No "liberties". This makes sense since they are not in the business of selling LIBERTY because they are only interested in helping you attain TOTAL FREEDOM. LOL

I hadn't taken a moment of "liberty" in a very long time. then my stats soared and i planned to take a full day off (SATURDAY). It was a holy event, i planned it all out as if I was a World War II concentration camp prisoner who just won the lottery grand prize (being released and given an all expense paid vacation to the USA).

As i was leaving the org (Saturday morning) a militant posse from HCO marched up to me and pounded on my door. They ordered me to return back to the org. I laughed and told them "no way" and informed them of my brilliant UP STATISTICS. The Nazi woman with with the clip board furiously informed me that my stats were not up because (even though this week they were in AFFLUENCE) they were not on a 3-WEEK UPTREND. So that meant that my "AFFLUENCE" was actually a downstat. I said some very unpleasant things at that moment and as they tried to charge inside my room, i physically threw them out, nazi bitch especially. LOL

Yeah, so that's how "total freedom" really works. And i not only did not have a clue about anybody else's stats, i apparently didn't even understand MY OWN stats either. LOL

( ps: So i did take a full day off and slept somewhere else rather than staff housing. they were searching but didn't know where to find me so they could FORCE me back. They were freaked out that i had permanently blown the org. When i came back after my glorious day off, they were all looking at me like with terror. Not fear of ME. They were terrified that if they didn't HANDLE me and i really blew for good they would be declared or worse. lol. In fact some months later i did blow for a permanent vacation.


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[Type4_PTS]

i think there's some of that going on -- including a mix of there just being fewer people to start with so that numbers coming out are smaller, and it being down to dead-enders less likely to leave.

plus it seems from what i've seen that it may be the case that those who remain tend to be of a type not to pay much attention to numbers, not grasping how abysmal then are while still in, but after having left not being able to tell us much useful about them.

i also suspect that those who really know much anything and have had access to key statistics, are after Debbie Cook and Marty Rathbun being given 'retirement' packages whose payments and tied to their remaining in compliance with NDAs.

I suspect some remaining members are aware of major issues within CoS but are staying in because they've been in for decades and may have nowhere else to go. Their employer may be a Scientologist along with all their friends and possibly family members. To leave now and risk being SP Declared could cause them to be disconnected from everyone they rely upon for support of any kind. It's probably less painful to just pretend that you're OK with everything and hope that Hubbard returns from Target Two to fix everything.

 

[Reyne Mayer]

I suspect some remaining members are aware of major issues within CoS but are staying in because they've been in for decades and may have nowhere else to go.

interesting point. i was thinking of staff specifically -- though even some of them may not know what else to do with themselves, particularly since they have no retirement. but yeah, i think there may well be more members than we realize who would get out of they could but feel like they have to remain in 'good standing' including particularly close family -- and i suspect that may include some of the born-in 'celebrities'.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

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I suspect some remaining members are aware of major issues within CoS but are
staying in because they've been in for decades and may have nowhere else to go.

Your observation may have just triggered the production of a feature length motion picture sequel. . .

"A LOYAL OFFICER and a GENTLEMAN"

​

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

interesting point. i was thinking of staff specifically -- though even some of them may not know what else to do with themselves, particularly since they have no retirement. but yeah, i think there may well be more members than we realize who would get out of they could but feel like they have to remain in 'good standing' including particularly close family -- and i suspect that may include some of the born-in 'celebrities'.

There are, in fact, two (2) retirement plans which all Sea Org members are entitled to:

1. GUARANTEED INCOME IN THE BURGER FLIPPING INDUSTRY: Minister Miscavige has advised all staff that should they leave the Sea Organization, they would readily be able leverage their admin skills by joining a fast food operation. It should be noted that Ron strongly endorsed same because of his discovery that: "Rapidity of particle flow alone determines Power".​

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2. JOIN DR. HUBBARD AT HIS DEEP SPACE RETREAT & TECH INCUBATOR: LRH has been steadily employed there since 1986 and there is a vast amount of proof that people who have enlisted with Ron at his new headquarters are ecstatically happy about their new life. We know this both factually and statistically—because since 1986 there have been zero written complaints filed by beings who work at Target Two.​

​

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[Type4_PTS]

There are, in fact, two (2) retirement plans which all Sea Org members are entitled to:

1. GUARANTEED INCOME IN THE BURGER FLIPPING INDUSTRY: Minister Miscavige has advised all staff that should they leave the Sea Organization, they would readily be able leverage their admin skills by joining a fast food operation. It should be noted that Ron strongly endorsed same because of his discovery that: "Rapidity of particle flow alone determines Power".​

​

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If Sea Org members here in Florida left the Sea Org and joined the burger-flipping industry they would dramatically increase their income.​

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The minimum wage is presently $13.00/hour in Florida. Sea Org members could work two 40-hour/week jobs flipping burgers and if only paid the minimum wage would make $1040.00/week and have about 20 hours/week of extra free time compared to what they get presently.​

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They would have to pay taxes on that money and pay for a place to live, but it's still a massive upgrade from the $50.00/week most of them are making presently.​

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Another advantage - if they flip fewer burgers one week than they did the week before they don't lose their time off.​

​

 

[Reyne Mayer]

There are, in fact, two (2) retirement plans which all Sea Org members are entitled to:

i don't know whether to respond to that with a laugh emoji or something less humorous -- because it's such a sad reality.

from accounts there's a new plan to avoid 'flaps' and leaks, and warehouse their elderly so there aren't scandals over them being 'offloaded', and so that the ones who know too much don't start talking to anyone who would listen.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

i don't know whether to respond to that with a laugh emoji or something less humorous -- because it's such a sad reality.

from accounts there's a new plan to avoid 'flaps' and leaks, and warehouse their elderly so there aren't scandals over them being 'offloaded', and so that the ones who know too much don't start talking to anyone who would listen.

Yeah, there is that side of the tragic hoax called Scientology.

It deserves the highlighting you gave it.

Mostly we furiously debunk that absurdly malicious lying and expose it as the money racket it is. But there is a much harder to confront part of the cult that savagely wastes human lives and families in order to extract money and/or protect the sociopathic gurus atop the command channel.

Thanks for a much needed reminder of the cruelty and ruthlessness that is in the DNA of Hubbard and his proxy con men, bullies and terrorists!

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[onceuponatime]

ASL put up a short the other day claiming:

* a major 'ideal' org has an average number of scientologists walking through the doors every week of about 30

* ideal orgs are making less than $5k per week, sometimes $1k, sometimes $100 per week

* they are giant ideal orgs that have less than 20 staff members, some that have had their buildings for over 10 years.

Scientology is COLLAPSING!

Store: https://aaronsmithlevin-shop.fourthwall.comhttps://thesptvfoundation.org/Growing Up In Scientology Clips: https://www.youtube.com/@GrowingUpInScientol...

www.youtube.com

has anyone seen any further information, like which orgs they are and what his source is?

it seems to me we've been lacking good insider information about what's really going on, though a defector with knowledge of some details said a year or two ago that over half the orgs in WUS required bailouts on an almost monthly basis. that might have been during the pandemic, but it also wouldn't surprise me if business at the local level has been down at levels around that since.

No idea which org he's talking about, off the top of my head I can think of at least 5 that in my opinion could fit.

I'm still skeptical of the bailout report but there's no doubt that Scientology is crashing.

 

[Reyne Mayer]

No idea which org he's talking about, off the top of my head I can think of at least 5 that in my opinion could fit.

I'm still skeptical of the bailout report but there's no doubt that Scientology is crashing.

in his recent interview with Isabella Baron:

• she says Pasadena was small and there were 'weeks that the GI was like negative so we didn't get paid anything because they had to pay all the bills'.
• and 'when I was like 19 [5 years ago] I visited Orlando to like pass out promo and it was a ghost town they had like five staff in the whole org' to which he adds 'I was told that at one point the number of Staff members in Orlando got so low they actually had to send in sea org members just to have enough people to keep the door unlocked and the lights on.'

Orlando was worse off than Pasadena, so how are they keeping the doors open and the lights on if not without bailouts? when NY org's budget was leaked a couple of years ago their monthly electricity bill was $14k, and while smaller orgs would have smaller bills the utilities cost on a 50k sq ft building can run $2-6 per square foot per year, or $4k per month and up.

also there's the cost of mailings, which may be done out of LA, but i would imagine local orgs are supposed to be reimbursing upper management for costs other than maybe say for IAS promo -- what about that? it must run thousands per month and maybe over 10 thousand for big orgs, and if orgs have been allowed to stop paying that's still a backdoor subsidy and they're effectively insolvent.

'

 

[I M Dex]

in his recent interview with Isabella Baron:

• she says Pasadena was small and there were 'weeks that the GI was like negative so we didn't get paid anything because they had to pay all the bills'.
• and 'when I was like 19 [5 years ago] I visited Orlando to like pass out promo and it was a ghost town they had like five staff in the whole org' to which he adds 'I was told that at one point the number of Staff members in Orlando got so low they actually had to send in sea org members just to have enough people to keep the door unlocked and the lights on.'

Orlando was worse off than Pasadena, so how are they keeping the doors open and the lights on if not without bailouts? when NY org's budget was leaked a couple of years ago their monthly electricity bill was $14k, and while smaller orgs would have smaller bills the utilities cost on a 50k sq ft building can run $2-6 per square foot per year, or $4k per month and up.

also there's the cost of mailings, which may be done out of LA, but i would imagine local orgs are supposed to be reimbursing upper management for costs other than maybe say for IAS promo -- what about that? it must run thousands per month and maybe over 10 thousand for big orgs, and if orgs have been allowed to stop paying that's still a backdoor subsidy and they're effectively insolvent.

'

At this point it seems that the primary purpose of maintaining active orgs, regardless of minimal functionality, is as props for Miscavige to use so as be able to solicit hundreds of millions of donation dollars. With all that income, he could afford to lower rates for services to a fraction of what they are just to multiply the amount of people "going up the bridge" in the orgs, but I think he sees more people as more problems, more complaints, etc, and people annoy him. And why go through all the aggravation when as long as he's got so many "ideal orgs" open and (minimally) staffed, he can fabricate "highest ever" stats to his heart's content, and nobody in the bubble is going to question him.

 

[Reyne Mayer]

props for Miscavige to use so as be able to solicit hundreds of millions of donation dollars

it seems to me that they also now serve as satellites for funneling people to AOs and Flag.

and i think DM has also cut back on 'services', and only increased the control over eligibility and delivery at Flag, after Lisa McPherson's death and a string of incidents before it made clear that what they had been doing was producing too many cases of mental breakdowns and psychosis.

 

[onceuponatime]

in his recent interview with Isabella Baron:

• she says Pasadena was small and there were 'weeks that the GI was like negative so we didn't get paid anything because they had to pay all the bills'.
• and 'when I was like 19 [5 years ago] I visited Orlando to like pass out promo and it was a ghost town they had like five staff in the whole org' to which he adds 'I was told that at one point the number of Staff members in Orlando got so low they actually had to send in sea org members just to have enough people to keep the door unlocked and the lights on.'

Orlando was worse off than Pasadena, so how are they keeping the doors open and the lights on if not without bailouts? when NY org's budget was leaked a couple of years ago their monthly electricity bill was $14k, and while smaller orgs would have smaller bills the utilities cost on a 50k sq ft building can run $2-6 per square foot per year, or $4k per month and up.

also there's the cost of mailings, which may be done out of LA, but i would imagine local orgs are supposed to be reimbursing upper management for costs other than maybe say for IAS promo -- what about that? it must run thousands per month and maybe over 10 thousand for big orgs, and if orgs have been allowed to stop paying that's still a backdoor subsidy and they're effectively insolvent.

'

Oh I'm sure bailouts have happened and continue to happen, my issue is with the over half and on a monthly basis, that seems off to me. Yes, utilities are expensive but at this point many (most?) orgs in WUS are ideal which removes the biggest expense, rent and of course the other big expense, payroll, doesn't exist for Scientology. Not sure on the mailings, maybe it's automatic and they get billed for it but I wouldn't count that as a real expense.

Skipping payroll for a week to pay bills doesn't surprise me at all, but that also points to the org at least paying the bills and not getting bailed out. Of course this also means they're right on the border of needing bailouts so who knows.

We already knew about Orlando being manned by SO right? good to have it confirmed but I'm pretty sure I posted about that awhile ago. No surprise there and it wouldn't shock me to learn Orlando was getting regular bailouts. If I were listing the smallest ideal orgs Orlando would be on there.

At this point it seems that the primary purpose of maintaining active orgs, regardless of minimal functionality, is as props for Miscavige to use so as be able to solicit hundreds of millions of donation dollars. With all that income, he could afford to lower rates for services to a fraction of what they are just to multiply the amount of people "going up the bridge" in the orgs, but I think he sees more people as more problems, more complaints, etc, and people annoy him. And why go through all the aggravation when as long as he's got so many "ideal orgs" open and (minimally) staffed, he can fabricate "highest ever" stats to his heart's content, and nobody in the bubble is going to question him.

Agreed, and it's been like that for awhile. Increasingly Class V orgs are just there so the big donors can have an illusion of expansion.

it seems to me that they also now serve as satellites for funneling people to AOs and Flag.

They've always been that way but it's only getting worse. I think the Class V network is in big trouble and all these delays on the training program only confirm it for me. Look how long it took them to open the recent ideal orgs, and it's only going to get harder for them.

 

[Reyne Mayer]

Skipping payroll for a week to pay bills doesn't surprise me at all, but that also points to the org at least paying the bills and not getting bailed out.

i don't they're mutually exclusive, if the org was too much in the hole for what might have been large and overdue bills they could have needed a bailout just to get back on an even keel and have any money left over for staff the following week. that would fit with some orgs needed periodic bailouts -- but then the even worse off ones like Orlando and whatever its WUS equivalents are would be needing even more frequent bailouts. maybe after the pandemic ended it's not quite as regular as it was for a while but it still seems like it's more frequent than it used to be* -- though unfortunately we don't have enough details to confirm just what's going on.

it's also all a reminder that ideal orgs were another sort of back door subsidy, get all the orgs into buildings -- for the ones with smaller 'fields', with a lot of money raised from outside -- where they didn't have to pay rent to an outside landlord. except now the tiny and struggling orgs have big utility bills, that i figure may be as much or more as what some used to have to pay for utilities plus rent at an old building a third to a quarter of the size. and i've heard they're still supposed to be paying the int landlord, in which case that must be another thing that is being forgiven -- though i would expect it's accumulating as 'debt' with interest that's counted as an asset, just the sort of thing that happens in failing businesses and frauds.

* i don't know what people here know, but never-in critics seems to have the impression that bailing out a local org is a red line never to be crossed, while digging around i find accounts going back decades that it has long happened from time to time.

We already knew about Orlando being manned by SO right?

i thought it was they initially relied on an SO contingent -- with orgs that went ideal around when they did like Columbus and KC experiments in almost entirely staffing the org with them for years after opening. but then it sounds like they had been pulled, but afterwards a skeleton crew of SO had to be sent back after staffing crashed to the point of 'non-existence'.

 

[I M Dex]

Skipping payroll for a week to pay bills doesn't surprise me at all, but that also points to the org at least paying the bills and not getting bailed out.

I think it doesn't point to that at all. Failing to pay salaries doesn't suggest that they're successfully paying other bills. If they're failing to pay one financial obligation, one would expect that this isn't the only financial obligation that isn't being met. If somebody owes you money, and you find out they're stiffing another creditor, you'd worry that you won't be paid either.