If Dianetics was Hypnosis, how come all the people who first got Dianetics auditing aren't still involved?
- Thread starter Riddick
- Start date
programmer_guy
True ex-Scientologist
My opinion on this:
Hubbard was using/experimenting with hypnotic trance induction in the 1940s.
I don't know the percentage but many people don't go into trance state even if you try to do it and they are willing to do it.
So, the switch to using e-meter was eventually done (measure of neurotransmitter effects in the skin).
(Maybe I am not answering the question?)
Hubbard was using/experimenting with hypnotic trance induction in the 1940s.
I don't know the percentage but many people don't go into trance state even if you try to do it and they are willing to do it.
So, the switch to using e-meter was eventually done (measure of neurotransmitter effects in the skin).
(Maybe I am not answering the question?)
Type4_PTS
Well-known member
There are other factors that determine whether someone will continue to stay involved or not. Whether hypnosis is used or not in Dianetics may not be a significant factor.
Your question implies that if a therapeutic technique utilizes hypnosis this would guarantee that participants would continue to be involved, but I don't see how you can make a logical argument to support that.
Bill
Well-known member
No.
HelluvaHoax!
Well-known member
.
.
.
LOL!
Your one-word answer should be celebrated as the discovery of the opposite of a "thought terminating cliche".
We need to give a name to this new & wonderfully helpful monosyllabic phenomenon. . .
I nominate "thought stimulating interjection".
LOL!
.
.
.
LOL!
Your one-word answer should be celebrated as the discovery of the opposite of a "thought terminating cliche".
We need to give a name to this new & wonderfully helpful monosyllabic phenomenon. . .
I nominate "thought stimulating interjection".
LOL!
.
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Reyne Mayer
Pansexual Revolutionary
i'm going to offer a couple of quick and over-simplified answers on this complex topic, that i think at least point somewhat in the right direction.
only some people are highly susceptible to hypnosis -- so it could be those, who got involved.
conventional wisdom is that hypnosis can't be used to make people do anything that they think is fundamentally wrong -- so until or unless they hit that point in scientology, they may stay involved.
given that even Hubbard admitted that he was very conversant with hypnotic techniques, and many who have studied such things have said that they are at work to at least some extent in Dianetics and Scientology, i'd suggest you learn a good bit more about such subjects, if you really want to understand to what extent rhetoric is or isn't and work -- and for different people.
now just to hint at the complexities not covered here, in a way that i think is relevant and telling, it's been discovered that a really tricky hypnotic operator can manipulate or fool people into doing things they wouldn't normally, by craftily confusing or misdirecting them about what's really going on. here's an example of that, where an adept at demonstrating such things, Darren Brown, uses techniques that include what is sometimes classified as conversational hypnosis (arguably including the 'confusion technique' that LRH talked about -- and then used on audiences and followers) gets people to accept blank pieces of paper instead of actual money:
and tangential, for the fun of it if you want to see more:
only some people are highly susceptible to hypnosis -- so it could be those, who got involved.
conventional wisdom is that hypnosis can't be used to make people do anything that they think is fundamentally wrong -- so until or unless they hit that point in scientology, they may stay involved.
given that even Hubbard admitted that he was very conversant with hypnotic techniques, and many who have studied such things have said that they are at work to at least some extent in Dianetics and Scientology, i'd suggest you learn a good bit more about such subjects, if you really want to understand to what extent rhetoric is or isn't and work -- and for different people.
now just to hint at the complexities not covered here, in a way that i think is relevant and telling, it's been discovered that a really tricky hypnotic operator can manipulate or fool people into doing things they wouldn't normally, by craftily confusing or misdirecting them about what's really going on. here's an example of that, where an adept at demonstrating such things, Darren Brown, uses techniques that include what is sometimes classified as conversational hypnosis (arguably including the 'confusion technique' that LRH talked about -- and then used on audiences and followers) gets people to accept blank pieces of paper instead of actual money:
and tangential, for the fun of it if you want to see more:
so you are basically saying it wasn't hypnosis. Which I would agree.
no, there are no commands to stay or get involved in auditing whether dianetics or scientology auditing.
This is more of a why question or how come they aren't still involved.
Reyne Mayer
Pansexual Revolutionary
there may be no obvious overt commands, but that may not mean for certain that there aren't any. if you watch the videos i posted, part of how it works is that the manipulator or hypnotic operator never gives explicit commands that might clue in either the subject or casual observers, but rather uses more subtle means of prompting and leading.
and isn't one of LRH's theses, that unintended words spoken to or heard by someone, can have the unexpected effect of being interpreted differently in the mind, and becoming a command to them, thus becoming either the source of aberrant behavior or the cause of psychosomatic illnesses? this is the best example i can find right off:
"The source of leukaemia has been reported to be an engram containing the phrase 'it turns my blood to water'.
There's the rhetoric, or the apparent proof.
What's big in dianetics and scientology are success stories, those are rhetoric apparent proofs. For gawds sake, everybody and their uncle in big companys and online companies use apparent proofs thru success stories.
Bill
Well-known member
People are people. I assume each person had a reason. Why assume, as a group, there was A reason. It's a silly question.
Type4_PTS
Well-known member
I'm not saying anything of the sort.
I believe that Book 1 Dianetics DOES include some hypnosis. I've seen the opinions of professional hypnotists who examined Dianetics and for me what they wrote was pretty convincing.
who were the people that wrote were pretty convincing to you? Specifics please.
you sound like a robot and not a actual person that one can talk with.
Type4_PTS
Well-known member
Reyne Mayer
Pansexual Revolutionary
Bill
Well-known member
Oh shut up.
pineapple
能说的名字不真的名字
@Riddick, your question implies that if hypnosis was used, this means people would still be involved. I don't follow your reasoning there. Seems like an illogical assumption to me. Why would it mean that?
I worked with a guy who went to a hypnotist to quit smoking. He quit, went from a pack a day to nothing. We were all very impressed. He was supposed to go back and see the hypnotist again for "reinforcement," but he never did. About a year later he started smoking again. Does that mean he wasn't hypnotized?
Hypnosis (usually) wears off eventually if it isn't reinforced.
John W. Campbell, Don Rogers, and even Hubbard himself, all say that hypnosis was used in the beginning. There have been lots of posts about this, for years. If you search for "hypnosis" or "hypnotism" you'll find them.
I worked with a guy who went to a hypnotist to quit smoking. He quit, went from a pack a day to nothing. We were all very impressed. He was supposed to go back and see the hypnotist again for "reinforcement," but he never did. About a year later he started smoking again. Does that mean he wasn't hypnotized?
Hypnosis (usually) wears off eventually if it isn't reinforced.
John W. Campbell, Don Rogers, and even Hubbard himself, all say that hypnosis was used in the beginning. There have been lots of posts about this, for years. If you search for "hypnosis" or "hypnotism" you'll find them.
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