Why Doesn’t Miscavige Write OT 9 & 10 Himself?

Cat's Squirrel

Well-known member
Drug addicts are also fine with a destructive lifestyle, until they reach bottom.

The problem with criminal thugs is that society has done a poor job of ensuring that they reach bottom. Prison is just a vacation from the streets for many of them.
The problem with prisons is that predators on the outside go on being predators in prison, and they manage to get by after a fashion albeit at the expense of others. The people who really have a bad time in prison are the ones with mental health issues - weak and vulnerable people who shouldn't be there at all.
 
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This is NOT OK !!!!

Well-known member
.
Whoa! I tried reading that paragraph more than once and could not understand even one of the sentences. On top of that you are lecturing Bill, who is one of the internet's premier Hubbard debunkers and accusing him of "spouting the BS of Hubbard"? LOL!
Hey Hoaxie, try this paragraph of a '59 Hubbard Lecture:

"“I couldn’t tell you where I lived in 1102 A.D. My memory on the earlier track wasn’t so bad, but they — in spots — but I realized there was practically nothing on the early, early track at all. Nothing! What was this? There were great big chunks like twenty years missing out of the track, see….During the war I remember vividly thinking about the Phoenician navy and how different our administrative system was than the Phoenician navy’s administrative system and so on. And of course I’d been in my same rank for so long, that I was getting moldy. That was true of anybody who went out to the combat areas. ................What all this comes down to was how willing I was to create the early track or to create the memory of an early track, which is all memory is. Now you have a reality on it because you know it is-was.” — L. Ron Hubbard, November 17, 1959

WHAT THE HELL?
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
tl;dr warning (I won't be offended if you skip this post.)

Original Poster on thread
Why Doesn’t Miscavige Write OT 9 & 10 Himself?
"One answer to rule them all". . . Because all prior OT cases are failed cases and this situation
has never been resolved by anyone -- Mayo, Hubbard, Mithoff, Miscaviage -- since 1968.

In the words of David Mayo, "he [LRH] had just tossed me the ultimate Hot Potato!" Now that hot potato
has been tossed to David Miscavige to fix or solve.

My three proof points:

1.) The "next level" phenomenon for OT8s

I know of a still-active FSM and public speaker. Both he and his wife are OT8, Class 8, all Ls,
experienced in the chair, fifty-year veterans. They've inherited big family money and live in
a beautiful somewhat exclusive area, so day-to-day financial pressures don't seem like
an issue. He's still doing the traveling "major FSM shtick" and she's at home being really
depressed from what he's privately revealed. Every day. He's hoping that the upper OT
levels (9&10) will finally handle her. The "whatever" it is. That's what he's pinning all his
hopes on to resolve his situation at home. The "next level" phenomenon, so called.

He obviously didn't get the memo that the upper OT levels don't exist. Believer to the end.

2.) Same sh*t, different day phenomenon
I did the entire bridge to OT7 and was a highly trained auditor. I have audited OTs a few times.
I looked around at every OT (up to OT8) and auditor/CS (up to Class 8) I knew, or peripherally
knew of, and concluded some things from brutal and honest observation. There little or no
difference between Clears/OTs and unprocessed wogs in many areas of life, including, but
not limited to:
  • Cheating on spouses
  • Divorces
  • Financial crimes and dishonesty with money
  • Not paying back money owed
  • Sexual problems (even at the highest OT levels)
  • Chronic depression (even at the highest OT levels)
  • Early death from preventable diseases
  • Bankruptcy
  • Suicide rate
  • Cancer rate
  • Common illness rate
  • General happiness in life
  • Self worth and personal outlook on life
  • And more, much more . . .
What, I ask, is the point then? I never met an OT with the OT abilities that were promised by Hubbard.
And I've questioned quite a few. I don't have them and I've done all the stuff.

I contacted over a half a dozen upper-level, ex-SO CSes and asked if they had ever created a real OT.
Their answers were all an emphatic no! Seems like most people were struggling with lower level "wog"
problems, even at the highest levels, including stuff off the above list. In conversations with "OTs" on lines
at Flag, I pretty much came to same conclusion. Sometimes it was shocking what they were still trying to
"handle" case-wise.

3.) Crazy Eights phenomenon
Here's an interesting piece of trivia. The CSes at Flag had "Joker & Degrader" slang term for all the OT 8
cases, who were coming in all F'd up or badly misbehaving. And there were many. No one got their case
completely "handled" on OT8. They referred to them as "Crazy Eights." One of the Class 9s at Flag,
who was also a friend of mine, told me this. Nice how they view you behind closed doors, LOL.



So in summary, you're not gonna be pulling the air covers off of planets anytime soon. Trust me on that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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Riddick

I clap to no man
have you considered that perhaps you're an outlier, didn't have the reactions that many people did -- and thus are missing part of the big picture?
I wasn't an outlier, I was very involved in going up the bridge and trying to get others to do so. I wasted a lot of time and missed opportunities because I was persuaded to go up the bridge and also join staff.

I've done a lot of research, my final conclusion is it's rhetoric with it's 3 means of persuasion, that's the big picture. Others will argue or disagree, so be it.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
tl;dr warning (I won't be offended if you skip this post.)

Original Poster on thread

"One answer to rule them all"
. . . Because all prior OT cases are failed cases and this situation
has never been resolved by anyone -- Mayo, Hubbard, Mithoff, Miscaviage -- since 1968.

In the words of David Mayo, "he [LRH] had just tossed me the ultimate Hot Potato!" Now that hot potato
has been tossed to David Miscavige to fix or solve.

My three proof points:

1.) The "next level" phenomenon for OT8s

I know of a still-active FSM and public speaker. Both he and his wife are OT8, Class 8, all Ls,
experienced in the chair, fifty-year veterans. They've inherited big family money and live in
a beautiful somewhat exclusive area, so day-to-day financial pressures don't seem like
an issue. He's still doing the traveling "major FSM shtick" and she's at home being really
depressed from what he's privately revealed. Every day. He's hoping that the upper OT
levels (9&10) will finally handle her. The "whatever" it is. That's what he's pinning all his
hopes on to resolve his situation at home. The "next level" phenomenon, so called.

He obviously didn't get the memo that the upper OT levels don't exist. Believer to the end.

2.) Same sh*t, different day phenomenon
I did the entire bridge to OT7 and was a highly trained auditor. I have audited OTs a few times.
I looked around at every OT (up to OT8) and auditor/CS (up to Class 8) I knew, or peripherally
knew of, and concluded some things from brutal and honest observation. There little or no
difference between Clears/OTs and unprocessed wogs in many areas of life, including, but
not limited to:
  • Cheating on spouses
  • Divorces
  • Financial crimes and dishonesty with money
  • Not paying back money owed
  • Sexual problems (even at the highest OT levels)
  • Chronic depression (even at the highest OT levels)
  • Early death from preventable diseases
  • Bankruptcy
  • Suicide rate
  • Cancer rate
  • Common illness rate
  • General happiness in life
  • Self worth and personal outlook on life
  • And more, much more . . .
What, I ask, is the point then? I never met an OT with the OT abilities that were promised by Hubbard.
And I've questioned quite a few. I don't have them and I've done all the stuff.

I contacted over a half a dozen upper-level, ex-SO CSes and asked if they had ever created a real OT.
Their answers were all an emphatic no! Seems like most people were struggling with lower level "wog"
problems, even at the highest levels, including stuff off the above list. In conversations with "OTs" on lines
at Flag, I pretty much came to same conclusion. Sometimes it was shocking what they were still trying to
"handle" case-wise.

3.) Crazy Eights phenomenon
Here's an interesting piece of trivia. The CSes at Flag had "Joker & Degrader" slang term for all the OT 8
cases, who were coming in all F'd up or badly misbehaving. And there were many. No one got their case
completely "handled" on OT8. They referred to them as "Crazy Eights." One of the Class 9s at Flag,
who was also a friend of mine, told me this. Nice how they view you behind closed doors, LOL.



So in summary, you're not gonna be pulling the air covers off of planets anytime soon. Trust me on that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I really love your logos (logic) breakdown after all your years in.

I would consider my wife to be one of the crazy 8's because when she did the redo of OT7, and didn't quite complete but she felt complete, why they wanted her to redo OT8, but she resisted because she knew the redo of OT 8 wasn't special and knew the materials, that was the bug that the COS didn't complete her on the redo of OT7, the COS members couldn't persuade her.

She actually blew from the Flag Land Base, and was freaked out. What a nightmare that all was.

And yes, I know of about 20 OT8's that are no longer involved.

I would love to here of your pathos and ethos experiences.
 

mimsey borogrove

Well-known member
I really love your logos (logic) breakdown after all your years in.

I would consider my wife to be one of the crazy 8's because when she did the redo of OT7, and didn't quite complete but she felt complete, why they wanted her to redo OT8, but she resisted because she knew the redo of OT 8 wasn't special and knew the materials, that was the bug that the COS didn't complete her on the redo of OT7, the COS members couldn't persuade her.

She actually blew from the Flag Land Base, and was freaked out. What a nightmare that all was.

And yes, I know of about 20 OT8's that are no longer involved.

I would love to here of your pathos and ethos experiences.
"but she felt complete," Mrs Mimsey had a similar experience. She was soloing on 7 and realized she was mocking it up to run. Massive BD, floating TA. She scanned her body - found nothing to run, put down the cans. Never went in session again. Not solo or sitting across from an auditor.

Methinks - these people who are on the level for years on end, or those convinced to redo the level are of the same ilk - mocking up something to run.

Mimsey
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
"mocking it up to run"
"mocking up something to run"
Bingo!

My two cents . . .
Tech didn't work to solve Hubbard's serious mental and physical woes in 1978, just to pick out
one point in time, so he had to invent/imagine other causes. Instead of admitting to himself --
and others -- that he had failed and his tech had failed, he relied on his imaginative powers to
mock up an nearly insurmountable new "second wall of fire," which could explain what was
holding "this mighty thetan" down, down, down and killing him at the time.

It's all mocked up.
 

Karen#1

Well-known member
After Lisa Mcpherson died under David Miscavige C/Sing, declaring her clear which she attested to, and the aftermath of that, I believe
Miscavige is too darn scared and cautious of penning TECH pronouncements.

He was close to the edge when Flag Service Org got indicted and charged for criminal conduct of negligent abuse of a disabled adult and practicing medicine without a license.

 

Reyne Mayer

Pansexual Revolutionary
I wasn't an outlier, I was very involved in going up the bridge and trying to get others to do so. I wasted a lot of time and missed opportunities because I was persuaded to go up the bridge and also join staff.

I've done a lot of research, my final conclusion is it's rhetoric with it's 3 means of persuasion, that's the big picture. Others will argue or disagree, so be it.
i meant an outlier in terms of what attracted and engaged you. have you considered that maybe for you it was just the rhetoric, but for many others it was other factors, or a mix of factors including rhetoric?

others may have had very different experiences, regardless of intellectual agreement or the lack thereof.

i think you're on to a piece of the big picture, but that asserting that's all there is, and that your theory and experience generalize to everyone else, is an error that seems to me to actually ends up undercutting your efforts to make your point, especially when i look at other's responses to your claims. and i offer that helpfully, and sympathetically.

and come to think of it, one of Hubbard's major mistakes in my view, was generalizing (including his personal 'case' and psychopathies) and proposing one-size-fits-all solutions to human complexities. but that is also what attracted come people, including perhaps yourself -- seemingly easy answers to life's problems. heck, you might even say that is an illusion Hubbard sold with rhetoric -- are you still buying into it?
 

Reyne Mayer

Pansexual Revolutionary
After Lisa Mcpherson died under David Miscavige C/Sing, declaring her clear which she attested to, and the aftermath of that, I believe
Miscavige is too darn scared and cautious of penning TECH pronouncements.

He was close to the edge when Flag Service Org got indicted and charged for criminal conduct of negligent abuse of a disabled adult and practicing medicine without a license.

yep.

that threatened the whole organization, caused them enormous stress and effort, and cost them somewhere between $35 and $100 million if i remember the estimates i've seen.

i think he is also too darn scared and cautious of delivering 'tech' anymore, except in limited and controlled circumstances -- and rightfully so given the persistence of cases of bad outcomes like that going back to at least the 60s and probably the very beginning.
 

TheSneakster

Well-known member
that threatened the whole organization, caused them enormous stress and effort, and cost them somewhere between $35 and $100 million if i remember the estimates i've seen.
So far as I can tell, David "Darth Midget" Miscavige thinks of the organization as his personal ATM; and, his only real concerns beyond staying out of prison are not losing control of his cash machine and not losing his supply of slave minions.
 

Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
that threatened the whole organization, caused them enormous stress and effort, and cost them somewhere between $35 and $100 million
That's a significant chunk of change.

I agree that this incident probably made DM very skittish about auditing people.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
yep.

that threatened the whole organization, caused them enormous stress and effort, and cost them somewhere between $35 and $100 million if i remember the estimates i've seen. i think he is also too darn scared and cautious of delivering 'tech' anymore, except in limited and controlled circumstances -- and rightfully so given the persistence of cases of bad outcomes like that going back to at least the 60s and probably the very beginning.
Well that's the paradoxical ruin of Scientology.

The hoax only worked because of Hubbard's nimble creative mind that could come up with tall tales that tall ("big") beings could believe in at some level. In reality, the threshold of credulity of cult members is shockingly low and Scientologists can be swayed, impressed and mesmerized with just about any shiny mythological tale about their god-like magical powers.

The best analogy I can offer as to Hubbard's patter is to consider an innocent runaway being picked up at the local bus station and then seduced with romantic love bombing chatter by a hardcore but slick-talking ghetto pimp. Once hooked, the girl gets "turned out" on the streets to go "earn" by seducing johns. This pretty well approximates the COS' "field staff member" commission structure. Both are in the "body routing" business with alluring promises of thrills for cash.

In any case, Scientology's ruin is that to survive they HAVE TO INVENT NEW SHINY LEVELS that promise euphorically cosmic gains. However, nobody except Hubbard was allowed by policy to create anything, pilot anything or to even do R&D. Any such efforts was regarded as a "suppressive act" and mercilessly attacked.

And here is the problem. Miscavige can't write and none of the cult's copywriters can write and even the LRH biographer (Danny Sherman) can write either. Nobody in the church can write anything of value and they are not allowed to recruit professionals to create the next levels.

In fact it would not be that difficult to write a new OT IX and OT X that could have breathed new life into Scientology's dead end "bridge". I even offered up some outstanding suggestions to Miscavige in a post years ago (LOL) knowing full well that Scientology management would never in a million years take and use high level creative advice. Because creativity is their sworn enemy. Only Hubbard was given permission to create, everyone else was attacked for doing so because they were "SPs" and "Squirrels".

So this is why the blockbuster movie called "SCIENTOLOGY" only had a few sequels. The author of the screenplays dropped dead and nobody else was allowed to write the next installments. This is beyond stupid.

The trajectory for how to write upper levels is very obvious if one looks at what scientology SOLD from 1950 to 1986, when Hubbard did his routing out form.

They sold invisible impediments (e.g. engrams, implants, BTs) that only they had the technology to erase. When Hubbard ran out of ideas in the 1970s he returned to what worked before and continue selling more BT levels (OT III expanded, OT IV, OT V, OT VI, OT VII, OT VIII). Very uninspired and lazy as hell, but he was raking in hundreds of millions so he didn't much care what Scientologists bought as long as they paid dearly for it.

Scientology does not know how to introduce new levels. That is solvable. They also don't know what the new levels need to consist of. That is also solvable. Thus facing what they believed to unsolvable obstacles, they turned to selling something else besides Scientology. To wit, they started selling donation rackets of status and Ideal gimmicks that would make live on earth a paradise.

It's actually quite humorous that Scientology entirely depends on stimulating people's imaginations in order to survive. But they refuse to do that because they are scared to death to create "tech" that doesn't work. But the joke is NONE OF IT WORKS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

All that is really required to get Scientologists lining up to buy OT IX and OT X is a compelling narrative thread mixed with some Hubbardian mythology and all of that lathered with some highly validative love bombing of the mark.

end of rant - :hattip:

.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
So far as I can tell, David "Darth Midget" Miscavige thinks of the organization as his personal ATM; and, his only real concerns beyond staying out of prison are not losing control of his cash machine and not losing his supply of slave minions.
.

Per Dr. Hubbard, chains don't erase until you locate and run the basic basic.

Can you think of an earlier similar guru who used the organization as his personal ATM; whose only real concerns beyond staying out of prison are not losing control of his cash machine and not losing his supply of slave minions???

If you can't find any earlier similar, the Church of Hoaxology is running a free introductory special this week where we'll give you a totally free CLUE in the form of the earlier similar guru's initials.

.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
Too bad I'm not auditing you.
.

I don't know what that means, but go ahead. . .

Give me your auditing command, let's see if I attain magical powers. LOL

Those commands Dr. Hubbard taught you---they always work, right? :)

It's such a shame that Miscavige messed up the magical mojo of mankind's greatest marketing messiah. So many Operating Thetans were made before Miscavige sabotaged the standard commands, am I right? LOL

.

l
 

mimsey borogrove

Well-known member
Well that's the paradoxical ruin of Scientology.

The hoax only worked because of Hubbard's nimble creative mind that could come up with tall tales that tall ("big") beings could believe in at some level. In reality, the threshold of credulity of cult members is shockingly low and Scientologists can be swayed, impressed and mesmerized with just about any shiny mythological tale about their god-like magical powers.

The best analogy I can offer as to Hubbard's patter is to consider an innocent runaway being picked up at the local bus station and then seduced with romantic love bombing chatter by a hardcore but slick-talking ghetto pimp. Once hooked, the girl gets "turned out" on the streets to go "earn" by seducing johns. This pretty well approximates the COS' "field staff member" commission structure. Both are in the "body routing" business with alluring promises of thrills for cash.

In any case, Scientology's ruin is that to survive they HAVE TO INVENT NEW SHINY LEVELS that promise euphorically cosmic gains. However, nobody except Hubbard was allowed by policy to create anything, pilot anything or to even do R&D. Any such efforts was regarded as a "suppressive act" and mercilessly attacked.

And here is the problem. Miscavige can't write and none of the cult's copywriters can write and even the LRH biographer (Danny Sherman) can write either. Nobody in the church can write anything of value and they are not allowed to recruit professionals to create the next levels.

In fact it would not be that difficult to write a new OT IX and OT X that could have breathed new life into Scientology's dead end "bridge". I even offered up some outstanding suggestions to Miscavige in a post years ago (LOL) knowing full well that Scientology management would never in a million years take and use high level creative advice. Because creativity is their sworn enemy. Only Hubbard was given permission to create, everyone else was attacked for doing so because they were "SPs" and "Squirrels".

So this is why the blockbuster movie called "SCIENTOLOGY" only had a few sequels. The author of the screenplays dropped dead and nobody else was allowed to write the next installments. This is beyond stupid.

The trajectory for how to write upper levels is very obvious if one looks at what scientology SOLD from 1950 to 1986, when Hubbard did his routing out form.

They sold invisible impediments (e.g. engrams, implants, BTs) that only they had the technology to erase. When Hubbard ran out of ideas in the 1970s he returned to what worked before and continue selling more BT levels (OT III expanded, OT IV, OT V, OT VI, OT VII, OT VIII). Very uninspired and lazy as hell, but he was raking in hundreds of millions so he didn't much care what Scientologists bought as long as they paid dearly for it.

Scientology does not know how to introduce new levels. That is solvable. They also don't know what the new levels need to consist of. That is also solvable. Thus facing what they believed to unsolvable obstacles, they turned to selling something else besides Scientology. To wit, they started selling donation rackets of status and Ideal gimmicks that would make live on earth a paradise.

It's actually quite humorous that Scientology entirely depends on stimulating people's imaginations in order to survive. But they refuse to do that because they are scared to death to create "tech" that doesn't work. But the joke is NONE OF IT WORKS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

All that is really required to get Scientologists lining up to buy OT IX and OT X is a compelling narrative thread mixed with some Hubbardian mythology and all of that lathered with some highly validative love bombing of the mark.

end of rant - :hattip:

.
You tease! God. You pen this story of how you "offered up some outstanding suggestions to Miscavige in a post" and don't share a glimpse of it with us? We, the faithful posters, would like you to offer up the suggestions to us. We would like that immensely.

Mimsey
 
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