Who Killed LRH and Upper managment?

Lee #28

Well-known member
Just looked at this article....

Good pics of where Hubbard lived at end of his life.

"We always had plenty of cash, there was always 1.5 or 2 million dollars on hand......"

 

Lee #28

Well-known member
I came across this article....that has lots of good info.

But, cant seem to reconcile that Anne (Broeker) was at Int out side of Hemit.....yet article says she died at an apartment on Bronson in Hollywood.

The Cult sure likes to cover up any deaths....

Edited:

Article has a fascinating bit of info about a time Anne tried to escape Int Base....and took a flight to meet her then husband in Nova Scotia.

It states that Rathbun was dispatched to bring her back....and raced to Ontario Airport (outside Los Angeles) and flew across the country to find her at an Airport on the East Coast ( presumable a stop on her way to Nova Scotia.)

The fascinating part is that the article states that Rathbun used John Travolta's jet to fly her back to Int Base.... WOW! that is interesting!

Article written by Tony Ortega in 2012.

Wild to read that John Travolta is implicated in a mad scramble to find and return an ESCAPING cult member!
 
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Edwardo

Active member
That Pat guy was one of supposedly 2 people who was with LRH when he died. And he states quite clearly the David Miscavage killed LRH...
If you could type out exactly what he said that makes you think so, it would be easy to check.

So far, no one else has agreed with your unsupported assertion.

I believe that you won’t be able to give a direct quote. Hopefully this is because you misunderstood what you heard. The alternative is that you are trolling.
 

Lee #28

Well-known member
If you could type out exactly what he said that makes you think so, it would be easy to check.

So far, no one else has agreed with your unsupported assertion.

I believe that you won’t be able to give a direct quote. Hopefully this is because you misunderstood what you heard. The alternative is that you are trolling.

Well....to play devil's advocate here.....David Miscavage rose to a leadership position in the Cult around 1980. He became COB of RTC in 1987.

Hubbard died in January of 1986.

So, I would imagine that COB was controlling egress and ingress to INT Base prior to Hubbard's death.

So, therefore he was controlling information about Hubbard....his location, and health info I'd imagine also.

So, IMO completely possible that he was controlling access to Hubbard. From Tony Ortega's article above....Pat and Anne and the other 2 employees at the Horse Ranch were "very paranoid." It is possible that he was feeding the Broekers fake info....about their situation, or the Broekers were in the loop.....who knows. But, appears that there was a set of protocols and methods in place to " watch over Hubbard..." which did not include Medical Attention or Nurses...?

So....looking at it that way, Miscavage did have a hand in Hubbard's death, IMO.

Edited: News reports state that Hubbard had a brain hemorrhage.....and died a few days later.

I've read nothing about Dr. Denk being in ( regular ) attendance of Hubbard, prior to his brain hemorrhage. He could easily have been called upon his brain hemorrhage...and driven up before he died.

I've read that he had long un-clipped finger nails. Well.....if his finger nails were not clipped....I seriously doubt that his toe nails would have been. So, considering that.....I doubt he was up and about, walking around his Ranch.....talking to anyone....or doing anything physical....

Sounds to me more like he was bed bound....for quite some time.
 
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Harold#1

A VERY STABLE SUPER GENIUS!!
Well....to play devil's advocate here.....David Miscavage rose to a leadership position in the Cult around 1980. He became COB of RTC in 1987.

Hubbard died in January of 1986.

So, I would imagine that COB was controlling egress and ingress to INT Base prior to Hubbard's death.

So, therefore he was controlling information about Hubbard....his location, and health info I'd imagine also.

So, IMO completely possible that he was controlling access to Hubbard. From Tony Ortega's article above....Pat and Anne and the other 2 employees at the Horse Ranch were "very paranoid." It is possible that he was feeding the Broekers fake info....about their situation, or the Broekers were in the loop.....who knows. But, appears that there was a set of protocols and methods in place to " watch over Hubbard..." which did not include Medical Attention or Nurses...?

So....looking at it that way, Miscavage did have a hand in Hubbard's death, IMO.
Could be, but that's not what Edwardo's post was about.

When and where did Pat Broeker say that "Miscavage did have a hand in Hubbard's death"?
 

cakemaker

Well-known member
I see what your saying but the power of that video is that it's straight from the horses mouth. That Pat guy was one of supposedly 2 people who was with LRH when he died. And he states quite clearly the David Miscavage killed LRH and immediatly changed upper management which are two crimes stated live, just after his death.
This is about as wrong as it gets.
The details of Hubbard's death, who was there, the timeline, the management reorganization that occurred before his death, the whole history, etc. is easily accessible and searchable.
 

Voodoo

Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow
I see what your saying but the power of that video is that it's straight from the horses mouth. That Pat guy was one of supposedly 2 people who was with LRH when he died. And he states quite clearly the David Miscavage killed LRH and immediatly changed upper management which are two crimes stated live, just after his death.
Many of us were active cult members for decades. We've all seen the LRH death announcement video. Hell, I was in the audience in person at that event.

Point is, most of us here are old timers who know quite a bit about Scientology's history. You don't have to explain much to us where it comes to that, but you're claiming to have found something that tens of thousands of Scientologists (and countless others) have missed.

Frankly, I'd give good money to find out that you've discovered something as incendiary as what you claim. No offense, but I'm pretty sure you haven't.

If you want anyone in the ex-Scn community to believe what you're saying, you need to provide us with a direct written quote, or point us to the exact time frame in the video where Broeker actually says what you claim he said.

If you can't be bothered to provide readers with that most basic data, then you'll simply be ignored, and probably ridiculed. It wouldn't be the first time some anonymous newbie tried to sell a wild-assed tale about Scientology. They were all ignored or ridiculed, too.
 

Lee #28

Well-known member
This is about as wrong as it gets.
The details of Hubbard's death, who was there, the timeline, the management reorganization that occurred before his death, the whole history, etc. is easily accessible and searchable.

I read somewhere about Hubbard asking someone to have an E-Meter built to electrocute him....

I guess there is plenty of details of Hubbard's death...and it is easily accessible and searchable...But after spending 27 years of my life in the Cult....and having spent lots of time already on Hubbard...( such as getting thru the SEcond Wall of Fire...the BC Tapes...) I'm loath to do any serious education about all this.

But would like to say is must be nice to be so certain that the circumstances of Hubbard's death is all neat, tied up with a bow....and unquestionable.

No autopsy was allowed....so there are at least some medical questions.

One source says Hubbard died of a Brain Hemorrhage another source says that he died of a Stroke. (about 6 days later....)

There are plenty of people that have Stokes....and don't die.

I guess Dr. Denk must have prescribed the Vistaral. From what I've read, the Coroner did take a blood sample of Hubbard after death and found that drug in his system.

The Cult says a low dosage of Vistaril is used for Allergies....

WoW! Hubbard had allergies!!?? Didn't he do any Dianetic Auditing to handle those?

And the new Will, signed by Hubbard the DAY BEFORE HE DIED....

Gee....no questions there?
 
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Voodoo

Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow
For Christ's sake guys....the guy made a mistake.....

Drop it.

Stop rubbing it in....
We're not rubbing anything in. The poster is being unresponsive to our requests for complete data, so we're increasing the demand.

No one's out to 'get' the new guy. He's making a fantastic claim that no one but him is aware of. It's not unkind of us to ask for a bit of clarification before buying into what he's selling.

Personally, I think he misunderstood something in the video, because no one else who's seen it has ever come to the same conclusion as our new poster has.
 

Lee #28

Well-known member
dog-pile

looks to me that more going on here than unresponsiveness.....

prior demands are not bringing any clarity....

english second language? troll? stoned?

:)
 
D

Deleted member 51

Guest
@Lee #28

Lee, Dr. Denk was rarely at Shaw Health Center during L Ron’s last years. It was no secret he was doing something for the Church of Scientology - the Shaw Health Center staff told all the Scientologists that asked about him. Answers varied from “He’s doing research for LRH” to “He’s over the rainbow,” “on a special project,” etc. I heard it from them myself. He wasn’t working at Shaw then.
 
D

Deleted member 51

Guest
dog-pile

looks to me that more going on here than unresponsiveness.....

prior demands are not bringing any clarity....

english second language? troll? stoned?

:)
Personally, Lee, I got real tired of people showing up at ESMB with dumb Internet names, always 2-3 of them within a few days or a week of each other, one after the other, posting crazy nonsense to annoy people who were there and force those on the old ESMB to waste time correcting the false information. One would then “like” the other’s posts. It went on and on. As soon as a thread with crazy false information died, two more supposed newbs with dumb Internet names would show up again within a few days of each other and start a new thread with crazy false information and start it all over again. It went on and on.

To make matters worse, we had to be extra nice to the newbs showing up spreading false things and they would even insult long-time members and try to create conflict.

It’s an old trolling pattern many of us have seen a lot on the old ESMB. You say the poster made a mistake, but why do you say that? The poster did not say that. Do you know him or her? Maybe he did make a mistake. If so, let him say it for himself and explain it. Nobody here is required to assume it’s a mistake or a troll. The information by a newb was alarming and false. That’s all.
 

Fuzynugz

The Crow
Thank you guys for writing. I am not a troll and yes a noob in forums. I couldn't even figure out how to post a enbedded you tube video. I appreciate the honesty especially from old timers but i should have posted my first thread a bit more clearly. As I have over stated I'm not claiming anything else. It's already there.

Thanks for your responses
 

Fuzynugz

The Crow
There is a Youtube video from a satellite production from the then new upper management called "LRH Death Briefing " Pat Broucker the second guest states not verbatim, that it was COB David Miscavage and his causitive decision to Discard LRH and change upper management. And in the same speaking Pat Brouker states are very suspicious and also says how OT 9 and 10 which are still confidential, are available and sort of speaks on it. This was right after LRHs death.
My fault. David does state it was LRHs causitive decision to Discard that body.
 

PirateAndBum

Administrator
Staff member
But as I said in earlier posts it's up for interpretation.
Yes, the interpretation is: Hubbard died of a stroke, in poor mental and physical health. We can't tell the faithful that! No, we have to make up a big lie - yes, that's exactly what we'll do. And we'll get Earl Cooley to tell everyone that this is what he saw - Hubbard was in great health, his body fit to serve him for many more years, blah blah blah.

He died like many other humans.
 
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