White (potentially beneficial) Scientology?

Veda

Well-known member
The solvent when added to the lacquer, then evaporates leaving the hardened glue. Can this be reversed?
Was there "white Scientology" ?

TRs (done in a non-cultic environment.)

ARC straight wire.

Old process before it became routine to violate the auditors code.

FEEL FREE TO ADD TO THE LIST.

The subject would never had been successful (as a monument building cult) without some positives.



 

Veda

Well-known member
My PCs good results when I ran Self Analysis on them. I had good gains from the Key To Live course (but not the follow up course)
I had a pc who requested that our first action was to do the complete Self Analysis book on him. It was done with an e-meter. The end result was close to a lower grades release. On a discontinued help process from the 1950s, he attested to "clear." The change was remarkable.

Of course, I let him know that the so called upper levels were auditing Hubbard case (not his own), and that he had received the best Scientology had to offer.

He "graduated" from Scientology at that time and is now doing just fine.
 

mimsey borogrove

Well-known member
It's an interesting process. I audited a woman who was flighty and dispersed on SA when I was on the BC at ASHO on Temple street and she had an observable change as her flightyness went away. She was a class 6 and she routed on to the class 7 course afterwards. One of the BC students I knew back then moved to Fla. and set up a field practice, and that was the process she used the most.

Mimsey
 

Hatshepsut

Well-known member
Hard to believe the simple processing, later became such an elaborate maze.

We seemed to have gone from practicing presence to projecting upon the PC. There evolved some idea that we were secretly 'bad' and withholding. David Mayo had once commented that he found just the opposite about PCs in auditing. They'd a great generosity of spirit and were more upset about their own failures to help someone on the track. He said they were too willingly to believe and worry about themselves being harmful.

The stable datum was that the amount of crimes and withholds gotten off was your guide to expected gains. I'm not so sure it was. But, we all went digging for buried overts on anything. But, possibly the caveat was those protective veils separating stacks of polar opposite identities 'too dangerous to flip into. While handling PTSness, I had to point to which identity mass was holding beings in place. This would be in the other person, dealing with their use of beams. One part was ejecting its highly compressed beings in an intentional direction.... like a Pez dispenser. Yet, it wasn't exactly the person's present personality, and not really a cluster of other beings really. It was a portion of the person, severed off somehow with the same intention to harm .

The story of Lisa McPherson's psychotic break always bothered me. She had done an L and attested Clear then began obsessing about whole track overts, IIRC. I had experienced this once, where after feeling clear and pure, something went very terribly wrong. I felt spiritually filthy, like the boundary around my etheric body ripped and heinous anti-social acts on the track began freewheeling in. Where did these portions flood in from and how'd they come to be with me. I can see where LRH might have gotten lost chasing such a string.

I remember watching a youtube video where Whitley Striber explained how this phenomena happened to him. It was like all the dregs at the bottom of the scum bucket of the universe accosted his sense of decency. It was unmocking his true self and he was afraid of losing his own spiritual existence. I guess this sounds something like a Cthulhu myth.
 
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Dan

Well-known member
Hard to believe the simple processing, later became such an elaborate maze.

We seemed to have gone from practicing presence to projecting upon the PC. There evolved some idea that we were secretly 'bad' and withholding. David Mayo had once commented that he found just the opposite about PCs in auditing. They'd a great generosity of spirit and were more upset about their own failures to help someone on the track. He said they were too willingly to believe and worry about themselves being harmful.

The stable datum was that the amount of crimes and withholds gotten off was your guide to expected gains. I'm not so sure it was. But, we all went digging for buried overts on anything. But, possibly the caveat was those protective veils separating stacks of polar opposite identities 'too dangerous to flip into. While handling PTSness, I had to point to which identity mass was holding beings in place. This would be in the other person, dealing with their use of beams. One part was ejecting its highly compressed beings in an intentional direction.... like a Pez dispenser. Yet, it wasn't exactly the person's present personality, and not really a cluster of other beings really. It was a portion of the person, severed off somehow with the same intention to harm .

The story of Lisa McPherson's psychotic break always bothered me. She had done an L and attested Clear then began obsessing about whole track overts, IIRC. I had experienced this once, where after feeling clear and pure, something went very terribly wrong. I felt spiritually filthy, like the boundary around my etheric body ripped and heinous anti-social acts on the track began freewheeling in. Where did these portions flood in from and how'd they come to be with me. I can see where LRH might have gotten lost chasing such a string.

I remember watching a youtube video where Whitley Striber explained how this phenomena happened to him. It was like all the dregs at the bottom of the scum bucket of the universe accosted his sense of decency. It was unmocking his true self and he was afraid of losing his own spiritual existence. I guess this sounds something like a Cthulhu myth.
Hats I just posted something on this other thread that you might find to be interesting.....

 

guanoloco

As-Wased
Hard to believe the simple processing, later became such an elaborate maze.

We seemed to have gone from practicing presence to projecting upon the PC. There evolved some idea that we were secretly 'bad' and withholding. David Mayo had once commented that he found just the opposite about PCs in auditing. They'd a great generosity of spirit and were more upset about their own failures to help someone on the track. He said they were too willingly to believe and worry about themselves being harmful.

The stable datum was that the amount of crimes and withholds gotten off was your guide to expected gains. I'm not so sure it was. But, we all went digging for buried overts on anything. But, possibly the caveat was those protective veils separating stacks of polar opposite identities 'too dangerous to flip into. While handling PTSness, I had to point to which identity mass was holding beings in place. This would be in the other person, dealing with their use of beams. One part was ejecting its highly compressed beings in an intentional direction.... like a Pez dispenser. Yet, it wasn't exactly the person's present personality, and not really a cluster of other beings really. It was a portion of the person, severed off somehow with the same intention to harm .

The story of Lisa McPherson's psychotic break always bothered me. She had done an L and attested Clear then began obsessing about whole track overts, IIRC. I had experienced this once, where after feeling clear and pure, something went very terribly wrong. I felt spiritually filthy, like the boundary around my etheric body ripped and heinous anti-social acts on the track began freewheeling in. Where did these portions flood in from and how'd they come to be with me. I can see where LRH might have gotten lost chasing such a string.

I remember watching a youtube video where Whitley Striber explained how this phenomena happened to him. It was like all the dregs at the bottom of the scum bucket of the universe accosted his sense of decency. It was unmocking his true self and he was afraid of losing his own spiritual existence. I guess this sounds something like a Cthulhu myth.

The story that I read that made this whole tragedy make sense was that in her Clear designation Miscavige was personally involved. He was observing one of her sessions and apparently made her Clear declaration for her or something like that. Then she had a psychotic break or wound up in a traffic accident and stripping in public or something - obviously not Clear - and the story rolls on from there. Her being locked away hides Miscavige's obvious auditor/C/S involvement. Can you imagine being the auditor or C/S involved in that?
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
The solvent when added to the lacquer, then evaporates leaving the hardened glue. Can this be reversed?
Was there "white Scientology" ?

TRs (done in a non-cultic environment.)

ARC straight wire.

Old process before it became routine to violate the auditors code.

FEEL FREE TO ADD TO THE LIST.

The subject would never had been successful (as a monument building cult) without some positives.



The biggest problem, IMHO, was best stated by L. Ron Jr in the 1983 Penthouse article.

Penthouse: What kind of people were tempted by this promise?​

Hubbard: A whole range of people. People who wanted to raise their IQ, to feel better, to solve their problems. You also got people who wished to lord it over other people in the use of power. Remember, it's a power game, a matter of climbing a pyramidal hierarchy to the top, and it's who you can step on to get more power that counts. It appeals a great deal to neurotics. And to people who are greedy. It appeals a great deal to Americans, I think, because they tend to believe in instant everything, from instant coffee to instant nirvana. By just saying a few magic words or by doing a few assignments, one can become a god. People believe this. You see, Scientology doesn't really address the soul; it addresses the ego. What happens in Scientology is that a person's ego gets pumped up by this science-fiction fantasy helium into universe-sized proportions. And this is very appealing. It is especially appealing to the intelligentsia of this country, who are made to feel that they are the most highly intelligent people, when in actual fact, from an emotional standpoint, they are completely stupid. Fine professors, doctors, scientists, people involved in the arts and sciences, would fall into Scientology like you wouldn't believe. It appealed to their intellectual level and buttressed their emotional weaknesses. You show me a professor and I revert back to the fifties: I just kick him in the head, eat him for breakfast.​
I don't know how much ego is healthy and how much is detrimental. There's a difference between pride and arrogance. There's a difference between Dunning-Kruger and Imposter Syndrome. It's possible that some healthy ego heals but in the end I think that what Nibs is saying is spot on regarding Scientology.
 

Cat's Squirrel

Well-known member
The biggest problem, IMHO, was best stated by L. Ron Jr in the 1983 Penthouse article.

Penthouse: What kind of people were tempted by this promise?​

Hubbard: A whole range of people. People who wanted to raise their IQ, to feel better, to solve their problems. You also got people who wished to lord it over other people in the use of power. Remember, it's a power game, a matter of climbing a pyramidal hierarchy to the top, and it's who you can step on to get more power that counts. It appeals a great deal to neurotics. And to people who are greedy. It appeals a great deal to Americans, I think, because they tend to believe in instant everything, from instant coffee to instant nirvana. By just saying a few magic words or by doing a few assignments, one can become a god. People believe this. You see, Scientology doesn't really address the soul; it addresses the ego. What happens in Scientology is that a person's ego gets pumped up by this science-fiction fantasy helium into universe-sized proportions. And this is very appealing. It is especially appealing to the intelligentsia of this country, who are made to feel that they are the most highly intelligent people, when in actual fact, from an emotional standpoint, they are completely stupid. Fine professors, doctors, scientists, people involved in the arts and sciences, would fall into Scientology like you wouldn't believe. It appealed to their intellectual level and buttressed their emotional weaknesses. You show me a professor and I revert back to the fifties: I just kick him in the head, eat him for breakfast.​
I don't know how much ego is healthy and how much is detrimental. There's a difference between pride and arrogance. There's a difference between Dunning-Kruger and Imposter Syndrome. It's possible that some healthy ego heals but in the end I think that what Nibs is saying is spot on regarding Scientology.
I don't know either, and it's an important question. The Australian spiritual teacher Barry Long once said that he knew of an Indian guru, a woman, who had succeeded in totally transcending / getting rid of (I don't know which) her ego, which was a supreme achievement in her spiritual tradition.

There was a catch though. She was surrounded by a coterie of disciples as a result of her status, but she had to be - she was almost completely unable to function in or cope with the world.
 

Reyne Mayer

Pansexual Revolutionary
I don't know how much ego is healthy and how much is detrimental. There's a difference between pride and arrogance. There's a difference between Dunning-Kruger and Imposter Syndrome. It's possible that some healthy ego heals but in the end I think that what Nibs is saying is spot on regarding Scientology.
indeed, the exact point of balance is hard to find -- but it's also not hard to point out when balance is way off.

it's certainly been my observation as an outsider that LRH, and his product scientology, are extremely egoistic. i think that's carrying on the tradition of Aleister Crowley, for starters. though it's also just modus operandi for narcissists.
 

Hatshepsut

Well-known member
The story that I read that made this whole tragedy make sense was that in her Clear designation Miscavige was personally involved. He was observing one of her sessions and apparently made her Clear declaration for her or something like that. Then she had a psychotic break or wound up in a traffic accident and stripping in public or something - obviously not Clear - and the story rolls on from there. Her being locked away hides Miscavige's obvious auditor/C/S involvement. Can you imagine being the auditor or C/S involved in that?
No, I can't imagine. Wrong indications can cause psychotic breaks, in and outside of Scn.

Miscavige surely never took the blame I feel sorry for those who got punished in his stead.
 

Hatshepsut

Well-known member
The biggest problem, IMHO, was best stated by L. Ron Jr in the 1983 Penthouse article.

Penthouse: What kind of people were tempted by this promise?​
Hubbard: A whole range of people. People who wanted to raise their IQ, to feel better, to solve their problems. You also got people who wished to lord it over other people in the use of power. Remember, it's a power game, a matter of climbing a pyramidal hierarchy to the top, and it's who you can step on to get more power that counts. It appeals a great deal to neurotics. And to people who are greedy. It appeals a great deal to Americans, I think, because they tend to believe in instant everything, from instant coffee to instant nirvana. By just saying a few magic words or by doing a few assignments, one can become a god. People believe this. You see, Scientology doesn't really address the soul; it addresses the ego. What happens in Scientology is that a person's ego gets pumped up by this science-fiction fantasy helium into universe-sized proportions. And this is very appealing. It is especially appealing to the intelligentsia of this country, who are made to feel that they are the most highly intelligent people, when in actual fact, from an emotional standpoint, they are completely stupid. Fine professors, doctors, scientists, people involved in the arts and sciences, would fall into Scientology like you wouldn't believe. It appealed to their intellectual level and buttressed their emotional weaknesses. You show me a professor and I revert back to the fifties: I just kick him in the head, eat him for breakfast.​
I don't know how much ego is healthy and how much is detrimental. There's a difference between pride and arrogance. There's a difference between Dunning-Kruger and Imposter Syndrome. It's possible that some healthy ego heals but in the end I think that what Nibs is saying is spot on regarding Scientology.
In our 70s courserooms, we had tree-hugging hippies along with the aged, "I've just got to make my mark in the world "types.... those power hungry "How to Live as an Executive" staff. I always stayed clear of the bigger egos. Hell knows no fury like a narcissistic wound.

I was surprised though, when reading over some of the earliest public promo, before much 'money' was involved. There was a lot of heart and interest in other people doing well. In a way, I guess the Help game can feed the ego identity too, being the guru.
 
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guanoloco

As-Wased
No, I can't imagine. Wrong indications can cause psychotic breaks, in and outside of Scn.

Miscavige surely never took the blame I feel sorry for those who got punished in his stead.
Yeah. Any other auditors or C/Ses would've been Declared something and gone so far from any Tech post it would make your head spin.
 
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