What is Rhetoric?

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
@Riddick

I have no doubt that Hubbard's use of rhetoric played a major role in people getting sucked into the cult and getting them to become a Scientologist, building their own prison of belief. I know for me personally, yes, it did do that. And your posts years ago on ESMB helped me see that more clearly, so thank you. But to say that Scientology is all rhetoric is not correct.

You've still not answered the question I had reposted for you. Here it is again:

Is coercive communication utilizing threats (such as in the example below) considered to be rhetoric?

The example I provided earlier:

You're sitting across from the Ethics Officer in a CoS and he says:
"Riddick, your Ethics folder is huge and as a consequence, I've prepared a CSW for your SP Declare this morning which is going to mess you up for trillions of years. However, If you upgrade your IAS status to Patron with Honors that would demonstrate that you're really not an SP and I would put the CSW through the shredder. What would you like me to do?"

Whether this particular thing happened in exactly this way is irrelevant. There were many instances where people were coerced into taking some action by threatening their eternity. And it wasn't just their eternity that was being threatened. It was also the threat of being disconnected from their own family and friends and in some cases their business associates and clients.

There are many people now who just pretend to be a Scientologist even though they no longer support the organization and/or see that the tech never delivered what was promised. It's not the rhetoric though that is persuading them to stick around or preventing them from sharing their honest thoughts and feelings. It's the threat of losing their family and friends or their business, and in the case of some, they probably genuinely are concerned about their eternity.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
Oh, how about this for creepy?

.

LOL LOL LOL !

SuperCreepy!

PowerCreepy!

CringeyCreepy!

Looking at that corny staged photo, I began to feel like I was slipping into a deep coma.

When my consciousness level revives, I am going to re-post that (along with some low-toned comments) over on the 100 TOP SUPER-STUPID MOMENTS IN SCIENTOLOGY thread.

.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
This a exscientology message board. The simple question to ask yourself, is how you were persuaded to be a member or follower or think dianetics or scientology works?

Ask yourself what first persuaded you? Was it ethos, was it pathos, was it logos? Or maybe it was a combination of the 1 or 2 or 3, maybe 1 or 2 or 3.

Here's something on logic, or logos:

 

programmer_guy

True ex-Scientologist
This a exscientology message board. The simple question to ask yourself, is how you were persuaded to be a member or follower or think dianetics or scientology works?

Ask yourself what first persuaded you? Was it ethos, was it pathos, was it logos? Or maybe it was a combination of the 1 or 2 or 3, maybe 1 or 2 or 3.

Here's something on logic, or logos:

1. I was young and naive and was enthralled with the pseudo-science.
2. I got feel-good feelings from auditing (brain endorphines).

I partially agree with you about the rhetoric but there is more to it than just that.
 

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
This a exscientology message board. The simple question to ask yourself, is how you were persuaded to be a member or follower or think dianetics or scientology works?

Ask yourself what first persuaded you? Was it ethos, was it pathos, was it logos? Or maybe it was a combination of the 1 or 2 or 3, maybe 1 or 2 or 3.

Here's something on logic, or logos:


As I acknowledged, rhetoric did play a major role in persuading me. But it wasn't the only factor.

A major factor that influenced me when I got involved had nothing to do with Hubbard's rhetoric. I was influenced by the other members at Boston Org. There is a concept known as "social proof". You can see some information on it here. I've not read this whole article so don't know if it's good or not, but will provide more information in the coming days as I have time:

This page mentions it as well:
How To Start A Cult
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
This a ex-scientology message board. The simple question to ask yourself, is how you were persuaded to be a member or follower or think dianetics or scientology works?
.
I guess one could say that i was persuaded by rhetoric.

Tom Cruise asked me a rhetorical question:

"So whadya say, are we gonna clean this place up?"

Then they routed me to see this free video and I was hooked!


Crazy lying people—defrauding and ruining
sane people, what's not to like? LOL.


.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
.

Here is what I really like about this RHETORIC thread. The rest not so much.

RIDDICK
Recall a time when Ron used Rhetoric.

ESMB MEMBER
Okay, the time Ron use ethos and lied about being a nuclear
physicist, war hero, doctor, ingenious research scientist,
planetary savior and mankind's greatest friend.


RIDDICK
Thank you. Recall another time when Ron used Rhetoric.

ESMB MEMBER
Jeez, we've been running this process today
for over 7 hours, I really can't find any more.

RIDDICK
Well, I certainly accept your answer that you
cannot find any more. But, I want you
to take another look at that.
(pc closes eyes, concentrates as
Riddick looks down at something)

There! What was that?! That!
That! That! That! That! That!
That! That! That! That!

ESMB MEMBER
I couldn't find anything.
I don't want to do this any more.

RIDDICK
I got that. That's fine, but the only reason
a person gives up the study of Rhetoric
is because of an MU. Let's take a look
at that in the big dictionary!


3 HOURS LATER
ESMB MEMBER MOCKS UP "GOOD INDICATORS"



"Wow! Vroom! Zoom! Zowie!
I suddenly feel really good about the word Rhetoric!!!
Do you think I can i get my keys back and go home now?

.
 
Last edited:

F.Bullbait

Wise Guy
.

Here is what I really like and what I don't really like about this RHETORIC thread.

RIDDICK
Recall a time when Ron used Rhetoric.

ESMB MEMBER
Okay, the time Ron use ethos and lied about being a nuclear
physicist, war hero, doctor and research scientist.

RIDDICK
Thank you. Recall another time when Ron used Rhetoric.

ESMB MEMBER
Jeez, we've been running this process today
for over 7 hours, I really can't find any more.

RIDDICK
Well, I certainly accept your answer that you
cannot find any more. But, I want you
to take another look at that.
(pc closes eyes, concentrates as
Riddick looks down at something)

There! What was that?! That!
That! That! That! That! That!
That! That! That! That!

ESMB MEMBER
I couldn't find anything.
I don't want to do this any more.

RIDDICK
I got that. That's fine, but the only reason
a person gives up the study of Rhetoric
is because of an MU. Let's take a look
at that in the big dictionary!


3 HOURS LATER
ESMB MEMBER MOCKS UP "GOOD INDICATORS"



"Wow! Vroom! Zoom! Zowie!
I suddenly feel really good about the word Rhetoric!!!
Do you think I can i get my keys back and go home now?

.
Ah, send them all to the Ethics thread. They can spend days on an Ethics cycle and come back shiny clean and ready to go.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
As I acknowledged, rhetoric did play a major role in persuading me. But it wasn't the only factor.

A major factor that influenced me when I got involved had nothing to do with Hubbard's rhetoric. I was influenced by the other members at Boston Org. There is a concept known as "social proof". You can see some information on it here. I've not read this whole article so don't know if it's good or not, but will provide more information in the coming days as I have time:

This page mentions it as well:
How To Start A Cult
you might realize, or maybe not, those links are basically offshoots of rhetoric just explained differently.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
.

Here is what I really like about this RHETORIC thread. The rest not so much.

RIDDICK
Recall a time when Ron used Rhetoric.

ESMB MEMBER
Okay, the time Ron use ethos and lied about being a nuclear
physicist, war hero, doctor, ingenious research scientist,
planetary savior and mankind's greatest friend.


RIDDICK
Thank you. Recall another time when Ron used Rhetoric.

ESMB MEMBER
Jeez, we've been running this process today
for over 7 hours, I really can't find any more.

RIDDICK
Well, I certainly accept your answer that you
cannot find any more. But, I want you
to take another look at that.
(pc closes eyes, concentrates as
Riddick looks down at something)

There! What was that?! That!
That! That! That! That! That!
That! That! That! That!

ESMB MEMBER
I couldn't find anything.
I don't want to do this any more.

RIDDICK
I got that. That's fine, but the only reason
a person gives up the study of Rhetoric
is because of an MU. Let's take a look
at that in the big dictionary!


3 HOURS LATER
ESMB MEMBER MOCKS UP "GOOD INDICATORS"



"Wow! Vroom! Zoom! Zowie!
I suddenly feel really good about the word Rhetoric!!!
Do you think I can i get my keys back and go home now?

.
that's funny HH. It's kind of funny because Hubbard said one can use scientology to get rid of scientology, only thing he left out was his use of rhetoric so it can be difficult for some.

Do you recall when you were first persuaded?
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
that's funny HH. It's kind of funny because Hubbard said one can use scientology to get rid of scientology, only thing he left out was his use of rhetoric so it can be difficult for some.

Do you recall when you were first persuaded?
.

Sure, I recall.

When I was a young teen, I did not know that adults, best selling authors, war heroes, doctors & nuclear scientists could lie, trick, cheat, steal and defraud.

Public schools don't teach children about pathological liars, con men & sociopaths.


.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
As I acknowledged, rhetoric did play a major role in persuading me. But it wasn't the only factor.

A major factor that influenced me when I got involved had nothing to do with Hubbard's rhetoric. I was influenced by the other members at Boston Org. There is a concept known as "social proof". You can see some information on it here. I've not read this whole article so don't know if it's good or not, but will provide more information in the coming days as I have time:

This page mentions it as well:
How To Start A Cult
"A major factor that influenced me when I got involved had nothing to do with Hubbard's rhetoric. I was influenced by the other members at Boston Org."

Don't you think the other members that influenced you were in hand influenced by Hubbard. Hubbard called this contagion.

And so you were contagioned with Hubbard. As so was I.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
.

Sure, I recall.

When I was a young teen, I did not know that adults, best selling authors, war heroes, doctors & nuclear scientists could lie, trick, cheat, steal and defraud.

Public schools don't teach children about pathological liars, con men & sociopaths.


.
Thank God Hubbard's book's and lectures are not required in public schools, that would be a scientology world.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
Here is Hubbard's rhetoric speech, RJ 67, when the Sea Org first began. So, here we are in 2021 and yet nobody has gone clear or OT or returned from life. It's a bunch of rhetoric to persuade.

Shoot, the Hubbard has died and not returned, LOL

 

Riddick

I clap to no man
Here is Hubbard's rhetoric speech, RJ 67, when the Sea Org first began. So, here we are in 2021 and yet nobody has gone clear or OT or returned from life. It's a bunch of rhetoric to persuade.

Shoot, the Hubbard has died and not returned, LOL

Here is a transcript of RJ67:

 

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
you might realize, or maybe not, those links are basically offshoots of rhetoric just explained differently.
Hmmm, not exactly..., but the concept of social proof doesn't really accurately describe the phenomena I was wishing to address. But I'm heading to sleep soon so will .maybe post about it at another time.
I'm pretty tired now but still awake enough to see that you've ignored my question for the third time now I asked in this post:



Did I falsify your theory about it being all rhetoric with that question? :unsure:
 
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