What if Hubbard had been honest?

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation.
It's pretty clear to me. My wife has no OT abilities, nor clear abilities. Plus I know lots of other so called OT's, not one, really. That's my observation, not some words of interpretation.
Does your wife believe she has any of the abilities hubbard promised?
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
Does your wife believe she has any of the abilities hubbard promised?
nope, and she doesn't actually know I post here or have on the old ESMB. She still has people in, her best friend. It's complicated. I got her out, but she's a chicken shit. I'm ok with that, We got her bro out, but he still thinks there is some use and he gained from all the auditing and reading he did. It's complicated. I'm ok that he is still out and believes what he believes, shoot he's older than me, I'm 62, he's 70. If he were to go back in, I'd raise a stink big time but I don't think I will have to do that. We are good communication about life overall.

Actually, I have discussed rhetoric with my wife superficially but that was several years ago. She actually doesn't know about my secret life here on ESMB and Redux. Is that OK, I don't know, all I know is that she is out and no longer spending money on scientology, and my bro in law is not spending money on scientology and that's good for me.
 

Veda

Well-known member
It's pretty clear to me. My wife has no OT abilities, nor clear abilities. Plus I know lots of other so called OT's, not one, really. That's my observation, not some words of interpretation.
Do you really think Hubbard's goal was to make other people into "Operating Thetans"?

Really?

Hubbard made SURVIVE! the central pillar of his proposed psychological-political movement in 1938. "Not for what but just to survive." Very Darwinian. No morality whatsoever. Just Survive!

He also made himself the center of this proposed movement and was determined to "smash [his] name into history." According to him, that was his "real goal."

Years later he wrote in Axiom Ten that, "The highest purpose in the universe is the creation of effect."

Any effect was better than no effect.

This was reinforced by convincing people that their futures for the next "endless trillions" depended on him or his surrogates.

Hubbard's base motivations are woven into Scientology.



Author William Burroughs remained a proponent of many aspects of Scientology auditing, while recognizing that Hubbard had created Scientology, "fundamentally as an ersatz immorality" for himself. Burroughs' book, Naked Scientology, was published in the early 1970s.

Fourteen years later, David Mayo, who had lived with Hubbard, and been his counselor, described his motivation: "He told me he had an insatiable lust for power and money. He stated that very emphatically. He thought it wasn't possible to get enough. He didn't see it as if it was a fault, just that he couldn't get enough."

A few years after that, in an article published in an Independent auditor magazine, David Mayo, while still advocating "Clearing" (as a verb) through auditing, described Hubbard's reason for downgrading and redefining (the noun) "Clear" (in 1978) as "PR and marketing" motivated.

In 1938, Hubbard had written:

"I have high hopes of smashing my name into history so violently that it it will take a legendary form...
That goal is the real goal as far as I am concerned.
Things which stand too consistently in my way make me nervous.
It's a pretty big job.
In a hundred years Roosevelt will have been forgotten - which gives some idea of the magnitude of my attempt.

And all this boils and froths inside my head."


Scientologists give a standing ovation to the giant L. Ron Hubbard signature.




Happy Hubbard fan(atic) club members gather beneath the giant LRH monogram.


A while back I received a letter from Galaxy Press (Author Services) imploring me to buy a gold leatherette bound copy of Buckskin Brigades, a pulp fiction novel, first published in 1937:




The letter explained that, by purchasing and possessing a copy of Buckskin Brigades, I would be helping to ensure the popularity of L. Ron Hubbard, and thus the preservation and use of the tech, and thus the survival and well being of the human race.

Years earlier, in the Scientology Hotline newsletter, it was announced:

"...the PR positioning of L. Ron Hubbard has been established. 'One of the Most Acclaimed and Widely Read Authors of All Time.' For it is LRH's image on which all the rest of our expansion depends. To the degree that LRH is made the stable terminal in society, people will reach for his books and services and we can get them on the Bridge to Total Freedom."

_______________________



A little more from the 1938 Skipper letter:

_____________________Begin quote_____________________​

Living is a pretty grim joke but a joke just the same. The entire function of man is to survive. Not for 'what' but just to survive... I turned the thing up so it's up to me to survive in a big way. Personal immortality is is only to be gained through printed word, barred note or painted canvas or hard granite.

I seem to have a sort of personal awareness which only begins to come alive when I begin to believe in a destiny. And a strange force stirs in me and I seem to be completely aloof and invincible...

Psychiatrists, reaching the high of the dusty desk, tell us that Alexander and Genghis Khan and Napoleon were madmen. I know they're maligning some very intelligent gentlemen...

It's a big joke, this living. God was feeling sardonic the day He created the Universe. So it's rather up to at least one man every few centuries to pop up and come just as close to making him swallow his laughter as possible...


_________________________End quote________________________
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation.
nope, and she doesn't actually know I post here or have on the old ESMB. She still has people in, her best friend. It's complicated. I got her out, but she's a chicken shit. I'm ok with that, We got her bro out, but he still thinks there is some use and he gained from all the auditing and reading he did. It's complicated. I'm ok that he is still out and believes what he believes, shoot he's older than me, I'm 62, he's 70. If he were to go back in, I'd raise a stink big time but I don't think I will have to do that. We are good communication about life overall.

Actually, I have discussed rhetoric with my wife superficially but that was several years ago. She actually doesn't know about my secret life here on ESMB and Redux. Is that OK, I don't know, all I know is that she is out and no longer spending money on scientology, and my bro in law is not spending money on scientology and that's good for me.

I think there are a lot of people who live in a similar situation ... we never really know what scientologists think until they are willing to just lay it all out and are willing to lose people when they do ... I did that and I lost two very important people, got them back years later but decided I don't want one of them in my life currently due to that person still being a scientologist and having to walk on eggshells around him/her.

For me, life is far too short for tottering around on eggshells, people that try and make me feel that way are surplus to current requirement.

Sad but true.
 

onceuponatime

Well-known member
If hubbard had been honest Scientology would not exist. His first book, DMSMH, is based on the lie that everyone has this "reactive mind" subconsciously controlling them. There's no such thing as a reactive mind, so if hubbard was honest DMSMH never comes out.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
Wonderful worldview. So well said. Luv it! :hysterical:
"For me, life is far too short for tottering around on eggshells, people that try and make me feel that way are surplus to current requirement. "

As Trouble said above quote. Oh, the stories I could tell. When she was on the redo of OT 7 because of DM's and his lawyers rhetoric of new found tech and the new E-meter, on my god, eggshells it was. I wasn't married to her when she first did OT7 so I don't know what happened back then. But I can say when she was on the new OT7, what a pain in the ass the whole thing was, anything I said that was mis-interpreted became don't talk to me, don't upset me, her interpretation, just trying to talk me saying, it's really weird. What she was trying to say was that anything bad said or what not, became a O/W session.

That whole redo of OT7 put us in debt big time because of the stupid 6 months go back to Flag sec checks. On my god. Thanks to the internet and people posting, I read the Virginia story on it, if anybody remembers about that.

You know, I put in the hall closet the safe, for securing her OT7 documents, auditing sessions, per policy. Now, I have to say I had earlier redone the closet, I put in cedar lining to prevent months, it's a great closet for hanging jackets and winter jackets, you know. Now I gotta put in this 2 feet by 3 feet safe, it has to be bolted to the floor and glued. Fuck, what a pain in the ass, it's god damn heavy, for securing these so called OT7 auditing sessions so nobody else can read them, you know, the secrets of the universe of obtaining OT.

LOL.

The whole thing is a joke. Of course I always say it's rhetoric. laughing

The only good thing about the safe in the closet at this point in time is that we put our valuable documents, old coins, silver, gold, cash etc in it.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
Do you really think Hubbard's goal was to make other people into "Operating Thetans"?

Really?

Hubbard made SURVIVE! the central pillar of his proposed psychological-political movement in 1938. "Not for what but just to survive." Very Darwinian. No morality whatsoever. Just Survive!

He also made himself the center of this proposed movement and was determined to "smash [his] name into history." According to him, that was his "real goal."

Years later he wrote in Axiom Ten that, "The highest purpose in the universe is the creation of effect."

Any effect was better than no effect.

This was reinforced by convincing people that their futures for the next "endless trillions" depended on him or his surrogates.

Hubbard's base motivations are woven into Scientology.



Author William Burroughs remained a proponent of many aspects of Scientology auditing, while recognizing that Hubbard had created Scientology, "fundamentally as an ersatz immorality" for himself. Burroughs' book, Naked Scientology, was published in the early 1970s.

Fourteen years later, David Mayo, who had lived with Hubbard, and been his counselor, described his motivation: "He told me he had an insatiable lust for power and money. He stated that very emphatically. He thought it wasn't possible to get enough. He didn't see it as if it was a fault, just that he couldn't get enough."

A few years after that, in an article published in an Independent auditor magazine, David Mayo, while still advocating "Clearing" (as a verb) through auditing, described Hubbard's reason for downgrading and redefining (the noun) "Clear" (in 1978) as "PR and marketing" motivated.

In 1938, Hubbard had written:

"I have high hopes of smashing my name into history so violently that it it will take a legendary form...
That goal is the real goal as far as I am concerned.
Things which stand too consistently in my way make me nervous.
It's a pretty big job.
In a hundred years Roosevelt will have been forgotten - which gives some idea of the magnitude of my attempt.

And all this boils and froths inside my head."


Scientologists give a standing ovation to the giant L. Ron Hubbard signature.




Happy Hubbard fan(atic) club members gather beneath the giant LRH monogram.


A while back I received a letter from Galaxy Press (Author Services) imploring me to buy a gold leatherette bound copy of Buckskin Brigades, a pulp fiction novel, first published in 1937:




The letter explained that, by purchasing and possessing a copy of Buckskin Brigades, I would be helping to ensure the popularity of L. Ron Hubbard, and thus the preservation and use of the tech, and thus the survival and well being of the human race.

Years earlier, in the Scientology Hotline newsletter, it was announced:

"...the PR positioning of L. Ron Hubbard has been established. 'One of the Most Acclaimed and Widely Read Authors of All Time.' For it is LRH's image on which all the rest of our expansion depends. To the degree that LRH is made the stable terminal in society, people will reach for his books and services and we can get them on the Bridge to Total Freedom."

_______________________



A little more from the 1938 Skipper letter:

_____________________Begin quote_____________________​

Living is a pretty grim joke but a joke just the same. The entire function of man is to survive. Not for 'what' but just to survive... I turned the thing up so it's up to me to survive in a big way. Personal immortality is is only to be gained through printed word, barred note or painted canvas or hard granite.

I seem to have a sort of personal awareness which only begins to come alive when I begin to believe in a destiny. And a strange force stirs in me and I seem to be completely aloof and invincible...

Psychiatrists, reaching the high of the dusty desk, tell us that Alexander and Genghis Khan and Napoleon were madmen. I know they're maligning some very intelligent gentlemen...

It's a big joke, this living. God was feeling sardonic the day He created the Universe. So it's rather up to at least one man every few centuries to pop up and come just as close to making him swallow his laughter as possible...


_________________________End quote________________________
I do think Hubbard tried to make people Clear and then OT.

I actually totally agree with this:

"I have long felt that there are dangers to the writer as well as to the reader in pulp fiction. It did not occur to me until I read Dianetics to try to analyze the special dangers entailed in the profession of science-fiction writing. The art consists in concealing from the reader, for novelistic purposes, the distinctions between established scientific facts, almost-established scientific hypotheses, scientific conjectures, and imaginative extrapolations far beyond what has even been conjectured. The danger of this technique lies in the fact that, if the writer of science-fiction writes too much of it too fast and too glibly and is not endowed from the beginning with a high degree of semantic self-insight (consciousness of abstracting), he may eventually succeed in concealing the distinction between his facts and his imaginings from himself. In other words, the space-ships and the men of Mars and the atomic disintegrator pistols acquire so vivid a verbal existence that they may begin to have, in the writer's evaluations, 'actual' existence. Like Willy Loman in The Death of a Salesman, he may eventually fall for his own, pitch. "

That quote is from:


What Hayakawa doesn't know is hubbard's application Dean Wilbur book English Rhetoric.

I think Hubbard was this:

"In other words, the space-ships and the men of Mars and the atomic disintegrator pistols acquire so vivid a verbal existence that they may begin to have, in the writer's evaluations, 'actual' existence. Like Willy Loman in The Death of a Salesman, he may eventually fall for his own, pitch. "

And Hubbard used rhetoric to get others other people to fall for his pitch.
 
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ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
What if Hubbard had been honest?

Dianetics and the Clearing Course had not fixed everything Hubbard wanted to fix in himself mentally and physically
by 1967, despite having been presumably the most audited person in history. Instead of realizing he had failed and
admitting it to himself and us, he had to look elsewhere or invent another deeper reason.

He decided his problems must be hidden influences from other beings. Hence, the Wall of Fire in 1967-8.

Collapsing -- almost dying a couple times -- and having many mental issues by1978, again, he decided his problems
must be hidden influences from other beings. It only gets worse from there for him.

He could never admit that he had failed at his quest to develop a "mental science" until the very bitter end, and then
only admitting it to one person, his friend Sarge, but not to us. How terrible is that?

Those who are still in are hung with his failure and dishonesty.
 
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PirateAndBum

Administrator
Staff member
What if Hubbard had been honest?

Dianetics and the Clearing Course had not fixed everything Hubbard wanted to fix in himself mentally and physically
by 1967, despite having been presumably the most audited person in history. Instead of realizing he had failed and
admitting it to himself and us, he had to look elsewhere or invent another deeper reason.

He decided his problems must be hidden influences from other beings. Hence, the Wall of Fire in 1967-8.

Collapsing -- almost dying a couple times -- and having many mental issues by1978, again, he decided his problems
must be hidden influences from other beings. It only gets worse from there for him.

He could never admit that he had failed at his quest to develop a "mental science" until the very bitter end, and then
only admitting it to one person, his friend Sarge, but not to us. How terrible is that?

Those who are still in are hung with his failure and dishonesty.
Well, it just wouldn't do to tell everyone at the end that he failed. It would be counter productive to smashing his name into history.
 
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