VIDEOS: Independent Scientologist Andy Nolch interviews Jon Atack

ISNOINews

Independent Scientology and Nation of Islam news
VIDEO: Independent Scientologist Andy Nolch interviews Jon Atack

Part 1.


* * * * * BEGIN DESCRIPTION * * * * *

Description

the half Scientologist Andy Nolch Space Cowboy - Andy interviews Jon: part 1

Aug 21, 2021

Andy Nolch’s first interview with Jon. Andy recommends Jon’s talks with Chris Shelton – especially where they talked about Complex Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder and Scientology, and congratulates him on his ‘deep dive’ into Scientology’s real history.

Jon begins by recommending Helen O’Brien’s Dianetics in Limbo. O’Brien was the head of the Hubbard Association of Scientologists and arranged the Philadelphia ‘Doctorate’ Course in 1952. Hubbard wrote his infamous letter about adopting the ‘religion angle’ to her (she shared these letters with Jon and was one of 150 people who contributed to his research). Jon explains some of his own involvement – including taking the ‘upper levels’, auditor training and the Data Series Evaluator Course. Jon explains that contrary to popular belief his work has been to help Scientologists, so he is not an ‘anti-Scientologist’. Many fascinating details about the history of Hubbard and his Scientology.

* * * * * END DESCRIPTION * * * * *

/
 

ISNOINews

Independent Scientology and Nation of Islam news
Part 2.




* * * * * BEGIN DESCRIPTION * * * * *

Andy Nolch’s second interview with Jon. Jon talks about the media’s reporting of Scientology, and the Daily Mail journalist who explained journalists want a ‘victim and a picture’ and his determination to explore the reasons people join, why they stay, why they leave and how they recover when dealing with the media. Jon’s Let’s Sell These People a Piece of Blue Sky is called Hubbard Through the Looking Glass in the bibliography of Russell Miller’s excellent Bare-Faced Messiah, because Hubbard turns out to be the very opposite of the liberator of humanity – his whole objective was to enslave people, and he did a spectacular job! Jon and Andy talk about Hubbard’s admissions of drug abuse in Scientology literature (both amphetamines and barbiturates) and his alcoholism. Many more fascinating details!

* * * * * END DESCRIPTION * * * * *

/
 

ISNOINews

Independent Scientology and Nation of Islam news
Part 3.




* * * * * BEGIN DESCRIPTION * * * * *

Andy Nolch’s third and final interview with Jon. Jon talks about his role in setting up the Independent Scientology movement in the UK, back in the early ‘80s, before he found incontrovertible proof – in Hubbard’s own contradictions – that Hubbard was a liar, and began to uncover the real history and Hubbard’s ’‘other-intention’. Jon talks about the upper levels and the 16 years of harassment he suffered from Scientology because he spoke out.

* * * * * END DESCRIPTION * * * * *
 

ISNOINews

Independent Scientology and Nation of Islam news
VIDEO: Jon Atack debunks Independent Scientologist Andy Nolch.




* * * * * BEGIN DESCRIPTION * * * * *

Description

three concerns about Jon’s work (all three are taken up in this video). However, Andy does provide a remarkable demonstration of the beliefs that come from ‘weak’ and ‘circumstantial’ evidence (Andy’s own terms). Unless you agree with Andy’s veneration of Trump and Putin, his disbelief in vaccines and global warning and his belief that Dan Brown’s Da Vinci Code is history not fiction, then your views simply cannot be trusted. Jon and Sam comment on the tortuous construction of belief so often found among conspiracy theorists (Andy identifies as such).

Andy Nolch now calls himself a “half-Scientologist” and says that Jon should have been able to persuade him otherwise. However, in his approach to Jon, Andy wrote:

“I love your stuff. I love the deep investigation and information. I was a Scientologists [sic] inside and outside the church for around 4 years each. Now I am a non believer. You helped wake me up to the truth about Scientology along with Hubbards [sic] contradictions … Would Jon like to be my very last interview?”

* * * * * END DESCRIPTION * * * * *

/
 

PirateAndBum

Administrator
Staff member
VIDEO: Independent Scientologist Andy Nolch interviews Jon Atack

Part 1.


* * * * * BEGIN DESCRIPTION * * * * *

Description

the half Scientologist Andy Nolch Space Cowboy - Andy interviews Jon: part 1

Aug 21, 2021

Andy Nolch’s first interview with Jon. Andy recommends Jon’s talks with Chris Shelton – especially where they talked about Complex Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder and Scientology, and congratulates him on his ‘deep dive’ into Scientology’s real history.

Jon begins by recommending Helen O’Brien’s Dianetics in Limbo. O’Brien was the head of the Hubbard Association of Scientologists and arranged the Philadelphia ‘Doctorate’ Course in 1952. Hubbard wrote his infamous letter about adopting the ‘religion angle’ to her (she shared these letters with Jon and was one of 150 people who contributed to his research). Jon explains some of his own involvement – including taking the ‘upper levels’, auditor training and the Data Series Evaluator Course. Jon explains that contrary to popular belief his work has been to help Scientologists, so he is not an ‘anti-Scientologist’. Many fascinating details about the history of Hubbard and his Scientology.

* * * * * END DESCRIPTION * * * * *

/
Unlike Andy's prior dreck this is a very interesting interview of Jon. Jon talks about things I've never heard before. Like Hubbard being on phenobarbital when he came up with OT 3.
 

Veda

Well-known member
Unlike Andy's prior dreck this is a very interesting interview of Jon. Jon talks about things I've never heard before. Like Hubbard being on phenobarbital when he came up with OT 3.
"I'm drinking lots of rum and popping pinks and greys," in a letter to Mary Sue, plus an assortment of other evidence and testimony, all of which deeply angers Scientologists who can't believe that Hubbard was a boozer and druggie.

There's a long thread on old ESMB about the "pinks and greys" quote, but lots of other information, including first hand accounts of Hubbard's alcohol and drug use by old time Scientologists.
 

Karakorum

Well-known member
"I'm drinking lots of rum and popping pinks and greys," in a letter to Mary Sue, plus an assortment of other evidence and testimony, all of which deeply angers Scientologists who can't believe that Hubbard was a boozer and druggie.
Was that letter finally published anywhere or at least found itself in the court files?

I hate to be a doubting Thomas, but last time I heard about it it was all down to a single source Ron Jr, that gave the info to G.Armstrong, right?

I'm entirely open to the possibility that Hubbard was taking psychedelic drugs, but I would like some better sources for this. The more reliable people like Janis or Karen didn't mention that.
Maybe they didn't know because he hid it from most people?

But Ron. Jr is like Ron Senior. They both tend to tell tall tales and you can't be sure where the fiction ends and truth begins. I don't trust information that isn't corroborated by someone else.


P.S. The fact that Hubbard drank is corroborated by a ton of people, including Janis. I totally believe that part.
Its the "drug addict" part that I feel isn't well substantiated.
 

ISNOINews

Independent Scientology and Nation of Islam news
Was that letter finally published anywhere or at least found itself in the court files?
Tony Ortega has reported that the letter is not available in court files because Mary Sue’s attorney objected on the ground of her privilege as a spouse.

I do not believe that the letter was ever published anywhere else because Ortega also said that it comes down to whether one believes Gerry Armstrong.

See:

Gerry Armstrong hits back at apologist journal for questioning Hubbard ‘pinks & greys’ letter


Gerry Armstrong hits back at apologist journal for questioning Hubbard ‘pinks & greys’ letter | The Underground Bunker


/
 

Karakorum

Well-known member
Tony Ortega has reported that the letter is not available in court files because Mary Sue’s attorney objected on the ground of her privilege as a spouse.

I do not believe that the letter was ever published anywhere else because Ortega also said that it comes down to whether one believes Gerry Armstrong.

See:

Gerry Armstrong hits back at apologist journal for questioning Hubbard ‘pinks & greys’ letter


Gerry Armstrong hits back at apologist journal for questioning Hubbard ‘pinks & greys’ letter | The Underground Bunker


/
Ah ok, thanks.

So... we have Armstrong with his memory of a cryptic "pinks and greys" letter. Then we have Ron Jr. with his non-cryptic but quite untrustworthy claims.

I think I'm gonna remain an agnostic on the Hubbard-drugs-issue. :confused:

Its not that I think Gerry would be lying. But that's one very unclear and cryptic letter that Gerry remembers seeing. On the other hand we have pretty extensive recollections by other people who lived and worked with Hubbard - Janis, Hana etc. None of them mention him getting high and I think that would not be easy for him to hide on a ship.
Especially that Hana an dJanis aren't shy about pointing out all the crazy, weird and abusive stuff Hubbard was doing there.

Janis openly mentions how Hubbard was behind overboardings, chain locker punishments and how she personally went through sleep deprivation. I just don't see a reason why she would shy away from mentioning recreational drug use if there was any.

I'm not saying there couldn't have been drug use. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

But the evidence is very far from being conclusive..
 
Last edited:

Karen#1

Well-known member
Hubbard had a bunch of youngsters working for him in his "Household Unit" called HU and then of course the messengers.
His private space on the Apollo was fully accessed by at least 20 youngsters.

Not one of them ever reported seeing drugs, even when questioned.
To the contrary when he had that bad motor cycle accident, he refused pain killers and acted up and carried on (hard to live with)
but would not reduce his shoulder pain with simple advil and tylenol.

While I cannot speak for his earlier life, I know for sure he was not doing drugs on the Apollo.
 

Karen#1

Well-known member
Also Hubbard let his teeth get into that condition as he refused dental injections of any kind, to numb any area via a drug.
 

Karakorum

Well-known member
Hubbard had a bunch of youngsters working for him in his "Household Unit" called HU and then of course the messengers.
His private space on the Apollo was fully accessed by at least 20 youngsters.

Not one of them ever reported seeing drugs, even when questioned.
To the contrary when he had that bad motor cycle accident, he refused pain killers and acted up and carried on (hard to live with)
but would not reduce his shoulder pain with simple advil and tylenol.

While I cannot speak for his earlier life, I know for sure he was not doing drugs on the Apollo.
Thanks. That was my conclusion after reading people's accounts of life on the Apollo - chief of these is Janis's book. But of course I wasn't there and I didn't know Hubbard. You did.

I must say I feel odd 'defending' Hubbard against drug accusations. I'm probably one of the last people willing to act as Hubbard's advocate. But I find Ron juniors stories as trustworthy as his dad's stories about the blackfoot indians.

I think I would find it more likely if it was about the 1940s. But I find it odd to have Hubbard drugging himself in 1967 in Las Palmas, but then suddenly stop doing that once he's on the Apollo and with the 'fleet'. That's an awfully short time for a full rehab into total abstinence. Especially since nothing seems to have changed with regards to his alcochol habits or his sleeping habits etc.

Perhaps more evidence that will come to light to prove me wrong. But at this point, I'm skeptical of Hubbard's late 1960s drug use.
:confused:
 
Last edited:

Veda

Well-known member
Here's Jim Dincalci, who was Hubbard's Medical Officer, when Hubbard had an adult as a Medical Officer.

The relevant quote is from 2:55 to 3:54:


There is ample testimony from reliable people who knew Hubbard and saw his alcohol and drug supply, and witnessed his use of alcohol and drugs. Start by consulting the archives of ESMB. The number of people who will have to be called liars is quite long.

The drug use in question occurred around the time of the "development" of OT 3. As far as I know, the child Mesengers were not there at that time. Later, Hana Eltringham (an adult) marveled at the enormous amounts of rum that Hubbard could consume and remain upright.

Hubbard was the creator of the game. He made the rules but was free to ignore the rules.
 
Top