Vegan3's thread on remote viewing where everyone can see it

Veda

Well-known member
A random potpourri of Items on Ingo Swann.




Ingo Swann, who was member of Scientology for some years, as a comfortably distant "public," sometimes made paintings of outer space. Sometimes featured were grid lines, that provided perspective to the supposed viewer of the depicted scene. In actual practice, so the idea goes, the grid lines also "kept space," which is, after all, an illusion, "stretched out."

This may have been a touch or reality, contrasting to the unrealistic accounts of such experiences, that appeared in Advance! Magazine, some of which were fabrications by PR people.

Did any of Ingo's Outer Space paintings reflect his alleged experiences while out of the body?




Here's Ingo Swann featured in Advance! magazine during the mid 1970s. Ingo was a natural psychic as a child, and lost his psychic sensitivities and abilities as an adult - IIRC, the low point being while he was stationed in Korea with the military during the 1950s.

He credited the Lower Grades with giving him a sense of inner calm that resulted in his already existing natural abilities returning. After resigning from Scientology Inc., in the early 1980s, he described the OT levels as "disappointing."

Some Scientologists like to hold up Ingo Swann as proof that Scientology "makes OTs," but Ingo Swann explored/did lots of New Age/Self Improvement systems, the last, that I know of, being Avatar, after quitting Scientology.

Hubbard knew of Ingo Swann, and, in 1973, was, reportedly, asked why Scientology did not use OTs in its spying activities. Hubbard's reaction to the inquiry can be found in the confidential 1973 issue, titled Intelligence, Its Role.

In short, Hubbard ridiculed the idea.

Did this show that Hubbard did not have a high regard for Scientology OTs? In other words, he really didn't believe in his OT tech the way Scientologist assumed he did.

Before the existence of the popular internet, I read thousands of pages of confidential Scientology cloak & dagger internal communications (most not on the Internet), and orders and instructions from Hubbard. There was never any discussion of using OTs.

Link to Quote from the book Mind Race published in 1984


Years ago, by accident, on a car radio, I once heard Ingo debate James Randi (the debunker of psychics, faith healers, etc.), and it was a very friendly encounter. Randi liked Ingo.

Years later, Randi described his experience of Hubbard during the late 1940s.
The first 60% of the video is a Scientologist trying to convert Randi.
The last 40% is a non-Scientologist asking Randi about Hubbard.


One of Ingo's favorite items of Hubbard's writing was a thin black booklet titled, if I recall correctly, Control and mechanics of 8-C. It was about "good (effortless) control" and not having (mental) "ridges." It was one of several things that Hubbard's editor, John Sanborn, had liked, and had showcased, just as he had liked parts of the Phoenix Lectures and showcased that in the (now out of print) book titled the Phoenix Lectures.

The outlook expressed in this thin black booklet was 180 degrees in opposition to the prevailing reality in Scientology at the time which consisted of "effort," screaming, yelling, being "unreasonable," being "ruthless," but Ingo, being Ingo, floated above it all. (It also helped that he, as an artist, etc. was a semi-celebrity.)

Sanborn was publishing what he regarded as (in his words) the (1950s) "peak brilliance" of Hubbard's work, even though Hubbard had, by then, recreated himself as the "Commodore," and created Xenu and the Sea Org - and the staff at the Advanced Org in Los Angeles were dressing up as "whole track implanters" to "re-stimulate" the "wogs" just enough to make them compliant to Scientology body routers, recruiters, and registrars, and get them on the "Bridge to Total Freedom."



Once, years ago, when I and Ingo were talking, someone interrupted and asked if he was a Scientologist, and he answered "yes." Ingo was not pleased to have been asked that question. He did not want to be known as a Scientologist outside of Scientology circles.

After quitting Scientology in '82/'83. Ingo, (from what I have heard) was briefly involved with David Mayo's Advanced Ability Center and, then, got into (ex Elmira, New York Mission Holder) Harry Palmer's Avatar. (Palmer became quite the cult leader, just as Franklin Jones, a.k.a. Bubba Free John, Adi Da, etc. etc., had also established his own cult. Link to Franklin Jones on Scientology.)

Ingo actually did Harry Palmer's Avatar program.

He had also participated in other Self Help and New Age subjects/movements prior to his involvement with Scientology.

He, from accounts, after leaving Scientology Inc., when he could speak freely, thought that doing the introductory portions of Scientology had undone the negative effects of his time in the military. Ingo stated that he had natural psychic sensitivities and abilities as a child, and had lost those sensitivities and abilities as a young adult during his time serving in the military in Korea.

He described Scientology's OT levels as "disappointing."

There has always been an uneasy, sometimes contentious, relationship between the starry eyed true believers who take seriously the window dressing (PR) portion of Scientology, and the hard nosed senior operatives, managers and executives.
Some background



Hubbard, wanted for fraud in France , wearing a disguise hat and glasses in Queens, New York, in 1973



Around the same time, this man, Ingo Swann, artist, known widely as a psychic,
was being interviewed by Scientology's Advance! magazine.

It also in 1973 that Hubbard wrote the confidential issue Intelligence, Its Role, where he ridiculed the idea of using psychic abilities in espionage.

In thousands of pages of confidential instructions and internal cloak & dagger related messages (most of which is not on the Internet, as far as I know), there is not one reference to using the psychic powers of "OTs."



Third Eye Painting


I met Ingo Swann during 1973, in New York City.

We talked about lucid dreaming, and alternative states of consciousness achievable during that state.

He told me had a problem with telephone wires, which surprised me, as I also had the same problem. We'd be off exploring and would sometimes bump into them.

My exploration of this realm had only just begun and had nothing to do with Scientology.

It would lead through many portals of consciousness, and many adventures.
 

Chuck J.

"Austere Religious Scholar"
A few months ago I DL'd and read a .pdf of Ingo Swann's book, and I don't remember a single detail. Make of that what you will. I don't know, I guess it just wasn't very memorable? I'm not trynna be snarky, it's actually kinda strange, I usually remember something about a book I've read.
 

Veda

Well-known member
In no particular order, I may be re-posting some tangentially related content on this thread.

*​

Hubbard mentioned having a guardian angel in some if his private writing. According to Jack Parsons, in 1946, he was told its name was the Empress.


Close up from the book Scientology 8-8008

Quoting Aleister Crowley:

"...the attainment of the knowledge and conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel. This is the essential work of every man. None other ranks with it either for personal progress or for power to help one's fellows. This, unachieved, man is no more than the unhappiest and blindest of animals. He is conscious of his own incomprehensible calamity, and clumsily incapable of repairing it. Achieved, he is no less than the co-heir of the gods, a Lord of Light. He is conscious of his own consecrated course, and confidently ready to run it."

And,

"The central and essential work of Magicians is the attainment of the Knowledge and Conversion
of the Holy Guardian Angel."

And,

"The Great Work is the Attainment and the Knowledge of thine Holy Guardian Angel."

Elsewhere, Crowley states that,

"The Great Work is the raising of the whole man to the power of infinity."
Hubbard, in his private writings, regarded this other being as a companion, and as an equal, but not superior to him.

A similar idea is expressed by Carl Jung, as his Soul (Jung was more humble):

Jung speaks to his (Over) Soul.


This idea - particularly as expressed by Jung and other mystics - is absent from Scientology, which tends to make Scientologists egocentric. The idea of the astral body is also absent, or denigrated, even though, in traditional magic, it's an essential step towards to the next higher state of rarefaction, that of needing no manifest body at all.

Viewed through an esoteric lens, it's as though Hubbard wanted to trap Scientologists in Scientology. possess them, not free them.
 

vegan3

Active member
Didn't realize Ingo was behind Avatar. I did some of that in the 90's. Don't remember any gains to speak of. Momentary key-outs maybe. The first course was kinda fun in a very nice place with nice people. The second one was like being at SCN. Horrid all the way around.
 

Veda

Well-known member
Didn't realize Ingo was behind Avatar. I did some of that in the 90's. Don't remember any gains to speak of. Momentary key-outs maybe. The first course was kinda fun in a very nice place with nice people. The second one was like being at SCN. Horrid all the way around.
Yes, around 1987, IIRC, Ingo did Avatar.

Before and after Scientology, Ingo enjoyed exploring other "New Age"-type subjects.

Palmer quickly became just another cult leader.

I had a long talk with Ingo during early 1973 at a hotel in Manhattan, at a Mensa Society conference. I'm not sure if that conversation is mentioned in any of the threads I'm adding.


Crowley's correspondences between the Hebrew Kabbalistic Tree of Life,
and the eight tri-grams of the Chinese Book of Changes


Hubbard's simplified, and reworked the four components of the Tree of Life: the Kabbalistic Tetragrammaton, the four basic and successive postulations of the/a Life force.

The four fundamental ingredients of existence, so the idea goes.

Which, oddly enough, correspond with the four bi-grams, of the ancient Chinese Book of Changes:

Hubbard's Scientology Axioms are based largely on his mechanistic extrapolation from these four primordial conditions.

Which derive from the two primordial conditions: Yang and Yin, which derive from the great mystery - a nothingness with infinite potential.

We'll probably never know the extent to which Hubbard's "Axioms," and many of his other ideas, were inspired by his late night conversations with self taught chemist and rocket scientist Jack Parsons. No doubt Hubbard was aware of Crowley's "Theorems of Magick," and possibly aware of Nordenholz' Scientologie and its Axioms.


Painting by Patricia Waldygo


The top corresponds with Scientology's Static, the next two, lower, correspond with Scientology's As-isness and Alter-isness, next is a collection that corresponds with Is-ness, and the bottom corresponds with Not-Isness.

Many of Scientology's scales, as well as its The Factors, and even the Scientology symbol of the "S with the double triangle," derive from these earlier sources, notably through the writings of Aleister Crowley.

Some were lured into Scientology by exposure to these things.

While explanations can, sometimes, seem strange, they can also loosen the glue that holds a person to Scientology.
 

The_Fixer

Well-known member
Yes, around 1987, IIRC, Ingo did Avatar.

Before and after Scientology, Ingo enjoyed exploring other "New Age"-type subjects.

Palmer quickly became just another cult leader.

I had a long talk with Ingo during early 1973 at a hotel in Manhattan, at a Mensa Society conference. I'm not sure if that conversation is mentioned in any of the threads I'm adding.
You at Mensa?

That explains much about your reading and Library obsession.

Don't take that the wrong way, it was not meant to be dismissive of you in any way at all. Just a revelation from my viewpoint.
 

Veda

Well-known member
You at Mensa?

That explains much about your reading and Library obsession.

Don't take that the wrong way, it was not meant to be dismissive of you in any way at all. Just a revelation from my viewpoint.
Once, I attended a conference, held by the Mensa Society, on psychical phenomena and the occult. I was not a member and had no desire to be a member.
 

vegan3

Active member
I really don't remember much of what avatar was about. staring at rocks and following through on intentions. my sister did the whole program and seemed to love it. haven't heard her mention it since though lol. if i'd known that would be my last paid week off ever, i think i would have done something more exciting!
 

Veda

Well-known member
I really don't remember much of what avatar was about. staring at rocks and following through on intentions. my sister did the whole program and seemed to love it. haven't heard her mention it since though lol. if i'd known that would be my last paid week off ever, i think i would have done something more exciting!
Staring at rocks and following through on intentions? Looks like Harry Palmer kept changing Avatar tech as the years went on, recycling parts of Hubbard's stuff.

As I recall, it was originally about un-creating one's mental noise and bric a brac.

Kind of like a quickie Clearing couse circa 1958.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
..

NOTHING wil make you "clear" (Hubbard's original "clear"). However, when you redefine "clear", as Hubbard and Scientology do, then ANYTHING will make you "clear".

One of the greatest quotes of all time on the Scientology state of "clear"!

In the early 50s DMSMH guaranteed that anyone could go clear at home for free, via co-auditing. And the tech estimate Hubbard gave for all beings to go clear was "under 20 hours of processing".

Later in the 1950s Hubbard created a 7 word auditing command ("One Shot Clear") that he guaranteed would clear 50% the population of earth for free in just a few seconds (i.e. "Be three feet back of your head").

Then for the next three decades Hubbard just kept making up an incalculable number of processes and rundowns that were necessary to produce the state of clear. The difference, however, is that after "One Shot Clear" nothing was free. In fact the auditing processes were exorbitantly expensive, rising over time to $1000 per hour and more!

Like you observed, "Anything will make you clear" if Hubbard so pronounces it to the world as his newest and most miraculous "breakthrough". LOL

Your axiom that Scientologists can go clear on ANYTHING is very similar to another fundamental truth that I realized once upon a time--that Scientologists can have a win on anything! Look no further for proof of that than the gala event where Scientologists had a huge win on unexpectedly dropping dead and doing so "fully at cause!" They euphorically cheered Ron for successfully attaining the state of dead.


..
 

Zertel

Well-known member
Sometime in the 1980s after I had split scn someone gave me cassette tape about Avatar. This is all from memory and is verbal data but I think I have the general idea.

On the tape Palmer described that while he was "on the floor writhing around while going through OT3" it occurred to him that rather than going through incidents to discharge the mass or charge, why not address the thought, intention, consideration, postulate or whatever holding the item in place, with thought being senior to MEST. Something like that.

On the tape he did a session on a woman who offered an "item" which was troubling her. There were maybe four, five or six steps in addressing the item. The only one I clearly remember was he asked her to "label" the item. Some of the other steps might have been something like getting her to consider how the item might be true or not true but that's just a guess.

The labelling aspect might be akin to going to the doctor when you are sick and he diagnoses your illness. You now have a label and a path to proceed. Once again, all verbal data. haha

I think it has been said that as Avatar evolved or devolved as the case might be Palmer became a dictator as bad as Hubbard or DM.
 
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