Valentine's Day Massacre, Re-telling the story. A Sea Org Story

Chuck J.

Election Fraud Has Consequences
You're probably right, that we met in passing in INCOMM in the 1983-84 months, I was not in INCOMM as staff, only for visiting, and possibly I might have passed by INCOMM staffers like you in the chow area.
In summer 1983 til fall 1984 I was back and forth from Int to some office rooms adjacent to INCOMM proper. The AOLA side of INCOMM, that door to the "Int Dat Bu" part of INCOMM, I was across the hall, and I'd see people going into INCOMM's doors.
When I was on the "routing forms" project, we didn't have spaces in INCOMM (not til the 1989 redux Routing Forms update project when I was in the Int Data Bu section of INCOMM, the Int Data Bureaux section were almost 100% special category staff who didn't ultimately get "Int Clearances" and were just relegated to Int Data Bureaux microfiliming, indexing, stats upkeeping. A few finally got Int Clearances and they transferred to other Int orgs, LOL, didn't even stay INCOMM/Int Data Bureau staff.

The details are tedious.

Anyways, I think you are right, I was always eyeballing everyone in INCOMM, I wasn't a computer person so never aspired to be in INCOMM and all the persons who were going to build the Chug computer system had to be real computer programmer type people.

There's a bunch of ex INCOMM people who I think you'd know, since you were part of the first bunch.

Was the lady who recruited you, forget her name for the moment, but she's been on the chat sites once or twice, I recall in past years.

Her name will come to me.

Did you know Dennis Soto? He's been on the chat sites a couple times, years back.

Dennis was always hardware.

Of course you would remember John Busby. John came from CMO Int, he was in the LRH External Comm depart of the Int Base, and LRH wrote one of the original INCOMM despatches to John, and John was thus the first person to get the beginning of LRH's "computer advices" and John would have been there when you were in INCOMM.

A famous programmer, was Johann Berlin.

You may also remember Lars Bystrom, he was around then.

Chuck Prenner was the ex Harvard Phd computer brains that was Foster's right hand man, at the beginning of INCOMM. His wife, Noomi Prenner, both of them were from Brooklyn, brainy, went to top universities, seriously smart persons, even though Chuck Prenner later had some tragic flaws he ran on Noomi horrendously.

Bob Klma and his wife, Chris Klima, Bob was a brain, really one of the best nerds of early INCOMM.

John Dunn was around then. John became the ASI computer guy, tending the computers that went to LRH, and LRH most people don't know, had the "Grid" computer setup, an early laptop style computer. When I years later became the computer guy for ASI, in 1992, ASI still had the LRH Grid laptop and a mirror Grid laptop to communicate from ASI to LRH.

The security guard for INCOMM was Frank Gordon, remember Frank?

Later when Frank left INCOMM, Hank Gould became the main Security Guard for INCOMM.

Jenny something, in her late forties, a little chubby and glasses, was the recruiter for the early INCOMM in 1983.

View attachment 1900

Me in that office across the hall from the AOLA side entrance of INCOMM, this office is today where the staff canteen of the complex is.

I'm typing away doing routing forms "submissions" paperwork, my expertise was the policy references supporting each step of the routing forms, all 90 of them, which in total were hundreds and hundreds of LRH policy references.
Chuck
Wow. I recognize all those names. Suzy Laplaine and Ginny Berlin recruited me from Stevens Creek. (I was one of those 'hated' new raw meat people coming into the SO at the time. (Five months at Stevens Creek, prior). Johan Berlin..... serious stone-face dude. I didn't want to work for him. Altho' I did see him crack a smile a time or two. Yep, Bob Klima a computer nerds' nerd.

I had almost zero computer experience but they (they being Jorae Tibbitts, Suzy and Ginny i.e. HCO) wanted to use me as a guinea pig to see how long it'd take to train up a 'reasonably intelligent' guy. Other new peep's were jealous of me! This will sound funny but I think it was the fluorescent lights. I didn't want to be in there 15 hours a day under the lights. Pat finally got me out of that. Also, him telling me he had Hubbard calling him at some late hour to solve a problem on his computer sort of had an opposite effect on me. No thanks!

I enjoyed working with Mogens. Funny personable guy. He had the hots for that little Filipina chica, I forget her name, Christina? I heard later (after my time) he got "sent to Coventry," i.e. put in charge of that unGodly little Cadet thing over near Hollywood Blvd. Him and me went over there one time for some goofy errand and that opened my eyes! Holy Hell, what is going on here? Seemed like 'Lord of the Flies.'

They trusted me with huge checks. Not cash though. Sent a 'minder' (who carried the cash) with me to go buy a new Toyota. $9600 cash. I felt insulted. But I did drive around LA in a van buying stuff and bringing it back to the org. Thus I was like Santa Claus to staff. They had Happy Mental Associations with Chuck, 'What a great guy! He brings us cool stuff we've been trying to get approved by FP forever!' The guy with the presents.
:roflmao:

I would call up companies, order stuff I was instructed to buy, try to bargain on the price. I spent 10's of thousands of dollars. I would order 8k worth of printer ribbons on a monthly basis from DJC corp. Then when the time came I'd go pick up all the stuff I had ordered. I was The Purchaser but basically a glorified delivery guy. It was just me. Although sometimes another new guy helped me, Ron, blonde-haired, bearded Grizzly Adams type telephone repair guy, but he was assigned elsewhere usually. Or if we needed to look 'official' Mogens would get his uniform on (black slacks, blue shirt with tie) and we'd go together. I loved it. Out of the org. driving all over Los Angeles away from inter-personal drama most of the day.

Here's another blast from the past, remember Vinny Ruffalo? From one of those little Italian countries, as Suzy used to say. He called me the Pur-chaser. Noomi I liked a lot. She was a nice person. Chuck P. had a disdain for me that I never figured out. Some other names: Jorae Tibetts, Wendy & Pete Schultz, Wendy tried to protect me, she was another really nice person. Pete was a good guy. Careful with all that 7-11 coffee Pete! He had a bottomless cup of that crap! Celia & Brian Patrick. Mary Sierra. Martha Dubay, who married Dennis Soto. Liz Mercier-Gibble. Pete? Bob? Griffiths, Co-CO of INCOMM. Seriously talented computer guy. Always wore those sweater vests.

If you remember, in those days people at INCOMM didn't even wear uniforms. John Busby wore jeans and a light blue SO type shirt. HCO people did wear uniforms but besides them everyone else was pretty casual. A few people wore black slacks and a blue shirt, which was about as formal as anyone got. I never wore one. It was suggested to me to wear a uni, lol. I was even sent to "Manny, Moe & Jack" <jk> the three old Jewish guys with the store on Melrose where everyone bought SO uni's at. I never wore it.

My second stint I was treated differently. I had met the Fatman, (which is an entire saga in itself) and that was a get out of jail free card. Believe me, I could have made a career out that if I had the desire to. I didn't. I could see the gears turning in peoples heads, who is this guy? He's met our Lord and Saviour, Elron? Why? Is he...? What is he? Who is he? Anyone? No one? But he's just a low-level guy! Is he a secret agent? lolol.

Anyway, what a weird strange time in my life that was.
 
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D

Deleted member 51

Guest
Wow. I recognize all those names. Suzy Laplaine and Ginny Berlin recruited me from Stevens Creek. (I was one of those 'hated' new raw meat people coming into the SO at the time. (Five months at Stevens Creek, prior). Johan Berlin..... serious stone-face dude. I didn't want to work for him. Altho' I did see him crack a smile a time or two. Yep, Bob Klima a computer nerds' nerd.

I had almost zero computer experience but they (they being Jorae Tibbitts, Suzy and Ginny i.e. HCO) wanted to use me as a guinea pig to see how long it'd take to train up a 'reasonably intelligent' guy. Other new peep's were jealous of me! This will sound funny but I think it was the fluorescent lights. I didn't want to be in there 15 hours a day under the lights. Pat finally got me out of that. Also, him telling me he had Hubbard calling him at some late hour to solve a problem on his computer sort of had an opposite effect on me. No thanks!

I enjoyed working with Mogens. Funny personable guy. He had the hots for that little Filipina chica, I forget her name, Christina? I heard later (after my time) he got "sent to Coventry," i.e. put in charge of that unGodly little Cadet thing over near Hollywood Blvd. Him and me went over there one time for some goofy errand and that opened my eyes! Holy Hell, what is going on here? Seemed like 'Lord of the Flies.'

They trusted me with huge checks. Not cash though. Sent a 'minder' (who carried the cash) with me to go buy a new Toyota. $9600 cash. I felt insulted. But I did drive around LA in a van buying stuff and bringing it back to the org. Thus I was like Santa Claus to staff. They had Happy Mental Associations with Chuck, 'What a great guy! He brings us cool stuff we've been trying to get approved by FP forever!' The guy with the presents.
:roflmao:

I would call up companies, order stuff I was instructed to buy, try to bargain on the price. I spent 10's of thousands of dollars. I would order 8k worth of printer ribbons on a monthly basis from DJC corp. Then when the time came I'd go pick up all the stuff I had ordered. I was The Purchaser but basically a glorified delivery guy. It was just me. Although sometimes another new guy helped me, Ron, blonde-haired, bearded Grizzly Adams type telephone repair guy, but he was assigned elsewhere usually. Or if we needed to look 'official' Mogens would get his uniform on (black slacks, blue shirt with tie) and we'd go together. I loved it. Out of the org. driving all over Los Angeles away from inter-personal drama most of the day.

Here's another blast from the past, remember Vinny Ruffalo? From one of those little Italian countries, as Suzy used to say. He called me the Pur-chaser. Noomi I liked a lot. She was a nice person. Chuck P. had a disdain for me that I never figured out. Some other names: Jorae Tibetts, Wendy & Pete Schultz, Wendy tried to protect me, she was another really nice person. Pete was a good guy. Careful with all that 7-11 coffee Pete! He had a bottomless cup of that crap! Celia & Brian Patrick. Mary Sierra. Martha Dubay, who married Dennis Soto. Liz Mercier-Gibble. Pete? Bob? Griffiths, Co-CO of INCOMM. Seriously talented computer guy. Always wore those sweater vests.

If you remember, in those days people at INCOMM didn't even wear uniforms. John Busby wore jeans and a light blue SO type shirt. HCO people did wear uniforms but besides them everyone else was pretty casual. A few people wore black slacks and a blue shirt, which was about as formal as anyone got. I never wore one. It was suggested to me to wear a uni, lol. I was even sent to "Manny, Moe & Jack" <jk> the three old Jewish guys with the store on Melrose where everyone bought SO uni's at. I never wore it.

My second stint I was treated differently. I had met the Fatman, (which is an entire saga in itself) and that was a get out of jail free card. Believe me, I could have made a career out that if I had the desire to. I didn't. I could see the gears turning in peoples heads, who is this guy? He's met our Lord and Saviour, Elron? Why? Is he...? What is he? Who is he? Anyone? No one? But he's just a low-level guy! Is he a secret agent? lolol.

Anyway, what a weird strange time in my life that was.
So you were Stevens Creek mission staff for a while, before the Sea Org? What org were you SO at?

I remember Martha Dube (Dubay?)! Courseroom supervisor at ASHO around 1982. Haven't heard her name since then until now. She was real sweet.
Suzy Laplaine... Dark hair, petite, right? She was on the RPF in 1986 while Liz was there, but she was married and had a different name.
Vinny Rafaelo. Raffi. I remember him, too, early 80s, but don't remember him ever being on staff. He was an FSM and AOLA public.
Wendy and Pete Schultz. Wow. Yeh, they were a nice couple. They were on lines as public at AOLA in the early 80s. Michael Silverman regged them for their OT levels.
Liz Mercier-Gibble - Her husband Les was killed in a motorcycle accident. Liz volunteered for the RPF after that. I knew her there when I was on my way out. Poor girl's head was a real mess after that and she didn't feel she could hold it together well enough to hold a post. She also somehow blamed herself for it for giving him bad karma or something. I liked Liz.
Pete Griffiths - He used to post on the ex blogs. I never knew he was at PAC or Stevens Creek. Where did you know each other?
I never heard of anyone called The Fatman except a never-in Anon.


A few people wore black slacks and a blue shirt, which was about as formal as anyone got. I never wore one. It was suggested to me to wear a uni, lol. I was even sent to "Manny, Moe & Jack" <jk> the three old Jewish guys with the store on Melrose where everyone bought SO uni's at. I never wore it.
Yeh, there was a short stint that the Incomm staff were seen wearing jeans around. You must have hit the right time period, because it didn't last long. I remembered seeing Dave Cintron in jeans for about a month.
Just so you know, Manny, Moe & Jack is an auto parts store. They don't sell uniforms or any sort of clothing. :LOL:
The uniform place on Melrose stopped selling uniforms around 1984. Something happened and they didn't want to do business with COS anymore.
 
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Paul Adams

(Dulloldfart on ESMB)
I remember Martha Dube (Dubay?)! Courseroom supervisor at ASHO around 1982. Haven't heard her name since then until now. She was real sweet.

...

Vinny Rafaelo. Raffi. I remember him, too, early 80s, but don't remember him ever being on staff. He was an FSM and AOLA public.
Martha [Soto] was INCOMM Dir Training or similar. I interacted with her sometimes over courseroom stuff in the late 80s and early 90s when I was Staff Courses Sup in the HGB.

I seem to remember Vinnie was CO Pac Base Crew (CO HGB Estates?) at some time (early 90s).
 

Chuck J.

Election Fraud Has Consequences
So you were Stevens Creek mission staff for a while, before the Sea Org? What org were you SO at?

I remember Martha Dube (Dubay?)! Courseroom supervisor at ASHO around 1982. Haven't heard her name since then until now. She was real sweet.
Suzy Laplaine... Dark hair, petite, right? She was on the RPF in 1986 while Liz was there, but she was married and had a different name.
Vinny Rafaelo. Raffi. I remember him, too, early 80s, but don't remember him ever being on staff. He was an FSM and AOLA public.
Wendy and Pete Schultz. Wow. Yeh, they were a nice couple. They were on lines as public at AOLA in the early 80s. Michael Silverman regged them for their OT levels.
Liz Mercier-Gibble - Her husband Les was killed in a motorcycle accident. Liz volunteered for the RPF after that. I knew her there when I was on my way out. Poor girl's head was a real mess after that and she didn't feel she could hold it together well enough to hold a post. She also somehow blamed herself for it for giving him bad karma or something. I liked Liz.
Pete Griffiths - He used to post on the ex blogs. I never knew he was at PAC or Stevens Creek. Where did you know each other?
I never heard of anyone called The Fatman except a never-in Anon.


Just so you know, Manny, Moe & Jack is an auto parts store. They don't sell uniforms or any sort of clothing. :LOL:
The uniform place on Melrose stopped selling uniforms around 1984. Something happened and they didn't want to do business with COS anymore.
I was public at Stevens Creek. Suzy and Ginny came thru on a tour looking for s̶u̶c̶k̶e̶r̶s̶ computer people to recruit. (I was a sucker but not a computer person) and I was a warm body. Dare I say.... a stat!

I was S.O. at INCOMM, I thought that was evident from my posts :)

Suzy was married to Real LaPlaine at the time I was there. Another marriage broken up by $cientology? I didn't know they got divorced. Real was an imposing guy. French Canadian, tall thin, very much an SO exec type. But he was actually (to me) a nice guy. One time they had to do some last second SO $cn.'thing' off somewhere and needed a baby-sitter for their newborn-ish child. I got elected. Several hours that felt like forever. I did good. After that my stock went up as a guy that could be counted on, but then I was "the baby-sitter!"

One time I was watching some other staff members kids and I had to change a shit filled diaper. o_O It's funny to me now but then I was horrified. Several baby-sitter episodes later I managed to get out of that trap. This was all pre-Mighty Midget ban on kids. Long before that. Suzy I hope you escaped and are doing well.

Vinny Ruffalo. Yep he was INCOMM staff. I don't remember his title. He called me the Pur-chaser. He married a blonde-haired American girl. I don't recall her name.

Wendy & Pete. Good people. Wendy helped me out and tried to protect me.

I used to relieve Liz at the reception desk so she could go eat lunch. I hated that job. Non stop action. Les Gibble was quite a guy. A very nice genuine person. Everyone LOVED him. I never understood the fatalistic $cn. attitude that because he got in a motorcycle accident there was some secret SP somewhere. So he got in an accident. It's Los Angeles millions of cars and traffic. Shit happens. There's millions of other people in the world, it's not because your wife is an SP that you crashed your motorcycle. Sheesh.

Poor Liz.

edit: Les was around then I didn't see him for a couple weeks. Eventually we heard he was in a motorcycle accident, there was some hope he would recover. I don't think many people knew how serious his injuries were. You're saying he died?

Was his name Pete? Griffiths. I'm not talking about the Irish(?) guy. He was a tall dark haired American guy. Wore sweater vests all the time. Stoic. Was there but 'not there'. Always looked like his mind was elsewhere on some programming problem he was solving. Co-C.O. of INCOMM with Foster.

The clothing store.
It was a joke I was making. Thus the <jk> in my post. I called them Manny, Moe & Jack. The day I went in there they all three were behind the counter, the one with the cigar hanging out of the side of his mouth. Looked just like the auto parts sign, first thing that occurred to me. I didn't make a quip, they might have got mad at me. Maybe much later someone DID make a joke and pissed them off, lolol. More likely just got tired of $cientologist's and their bullshit.

pep.jpg
Later versions of the signage didn't have the cigar.

The one guy was making sure I saw his number on his arm from the Nazi internment camp. Not that I didn't feel some sympathy for him, etc, but he was obviously showcasing it.

Anyway, now that I'll be called Anti-whatever I'll stop. :hysterical:




Oh, The Fatman is a term of endearment for Elron.
:hysterical:
I can say that. We're pals.
The main thing I learned about Hubbard, and it took me a long time to realize this. He will genuinely help you. He tried to help me more than once. But, and this is the thing. The all important thing. He will help you ONLY if you are playing HIS GAME. If you are not playing his game and are playing YOUR game he is not interested. Nothing, Null. Your value to him is how you fit into his game.
 
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Chuck J.

Election Fraud Has Consequences
Martha [Soto] was INCOMM Dir Training or similar. I interacted with her sometimes over courseroom stuff in the late 80s and early 90s when I was Staff Courses Sup in the HGB.

I seem to remember Vinnie was CO Pac Base Crew (CO HGB Estates?) at some time (early 90s).
Martha had two young sons. She was my senior for a time when I was course admin.
 

Paul Adams

(Dulloldfart on ESMB)
Martha had two young sons. She was my senior for a time when I was course admin.
There was an SO girl Beth ___, mousey blonde, born around 1977, huge boobs, bit of a troublemaker but not malicious, FB staff, who seemed to be Martha's "daughter". There was little physical resemblance. Was it a guardian/ward relationship? Someone's joke? Do you know her actual status?

She came a cropper one day (1994?) when James Byrne was on an ethics mission in the HGB. She was in an elevator with him and greeted him, in all innocence, with "How's it hanging?" I say innocence referring to being unaware of the likely consequences of her saying that to James Byrne; I'm sure she knew its actual meaning. It ended up with him telling the assembled throng of the HGB the story at an all-org muster and her getting bounced out of the SO, I believe.
 
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Chuck J.

Election Fraud Has Consequences
There was an SO girl Beth ___, mousey blonde, born around 1977, huge boobs, bit of a troublemaker but not malicious, FB staff, who seemed to be Martha's "daughter". There was little physical resemblance. Was it a guardian/ward relationship? Someone's joke? Do you know her actual status?

She came a cropper one day (1994?) when James Byrne was on an ethics mission in the HGB. She was in an elevator with him and greeted him, in all innocence, with "How's it hanging?" I say innocence referring to being unaware of the likely consequences of her saying that to James Byrne; I'm sure she knew its actual meaning. It ended up with him telling the assembled throng of the HGB the story at an all-org muster and her getting bounced out of the SO, I believe.
As far as I recall Martha only had the two boys, twins (?) I think. They were about 6 years old when I was there, maybe even younger. So that would place them being born about '77 or '78. If she had a girl also I never saw her. And I really don't remember ever hearing that, so, I wonder too how that relationship came about? I don't remember Dennis Soto having any kids and Dennis was black-haired, although very anglo-looking.

Jeez, I keep learning new things here. :)



*edit: Yeah, I remember seeing James Byrne from fairly close range. Def. not a guy to say that to. :LOL:
 
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Paul Adams

(Dulloldfart on ESMB)
As far as I recall Martha only had the two boys, twins (?) I think. They were about 6 years old when I was there, maybe even younger. So that would place them being born about '77 or '78. If she had a girl also I never saw her. And I really don't remember ever hearing that, so, I wonder too how that relationship came about? I don't remember Dennis Soto having any kids and Dennis was black-haired, although very anglo-looking.
Thanks for answering. I heard it at least twice, I think from Martha. The first time I thought it was a joke or something, the second time just strange as they don't look alike at all. Oh well.
 

grubbychubby

New member
Hello folks, I'd like to clarify just a few things about my mother.

Marthe [Dubé] gave birth to four children. The first were my two brothers, Mathieu and Philippe Dubé. Later came my sister Elizabeth Lazar from her marriage with Alan Lazar. Then came Jennifer Soto (my former name) from her marriage with my father, Dennis Soto. Her last marriage was with Chris Morrissette and they did not have any children as this was in the '90s.

Mathieu and Philippe are active Sea Org members to this day. My sister Beth, myself, and my father are not Scientologists and are separated from the church.

Sadly, my mother is no longer here in this world. She served the church for forty years, battling cancer for the last ten.
 
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