Time for Indies to GROW UP.

Veda

Well-known member
OT LEVEL
ABILITY ATTAINED
OT VIIIAbility to be at cause knowingly and at will over thought, life, form, matter, energy, space and time, subjective and objective$8000
OT VIIRehabilitation of intention; ability to project intention$5,100
OT VIAbility to operate freely as a thetan exterior and to act pan-determinedly; extends the influence of the thetan to the universe of others$9,600
OT VRe-familiarizes a thetan exterior with the physical universe; freedom from fixated introversion into matter, energy, space, time$9,300
per 12.5 hrs
OT IVCertainty of self as a being$8,100
per 12.5 hrs
OT IIIReturn of full self determinism; freedom from overwhelm$8,910
OT IIAbility to confront Whole Track$5,225
OT IExtroverts a being and brings about an awareness of himself as a thetan in relation to others and the physical universe$2,750


Thanks for the list of abilities from the 1970 Grade Chart.
 
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Veda

Well-known member
Former Senior Case Supervisor, and Hubbard's personal auditor, David Mayo, stated that Hubbard removed the original upper OT levels from the Grade Chart. After all, he was there.

Despite some disagreement, in the "Independent Field," about who removed the original upper OT levels, and disagreement about where those levels should now be on the Grade Chart, there is what appears to be unanimity on the existence of "Dianetic Clear" "Yay!:hey:I'm Clear!" and support for the changes, made by Hubbard, to the middle grade chart in 1978. (Both the middle Grade Chart and the Dianetics Course were mangled. For example, the word "consideration" replaced the word "somatic" on the Dianetics Course, making Dianetics even more significance-oriented than it already was, and the middle Grade Chart, for most, simply disappeared, with people who, previously, would have been called "Dianetic Case Completions," being shipped "up lines" to begin OT 1.) :scratch:

Except for Ron's Orgs which appears to reject "Dianetic Clear" since that occurred after the doppelganger switch of 1973. :blink:

During 1990/1991, the independent field magazines, International Viewpoints and the Free Spirit, published David Mayo's 1989 article on Clear. By this time, if I recall the dates correctly, Mayo's Independent Advanced Ability Center had been harassed out of existence by Scientology Inc., and he was still working with Sarge Gerbode on designing the subject of Meta Psychology.

Mayo wrote: "It was PR and marketing considerations that led Hubbard to decide that certain people were 'clear' at a certain point."

:ohmy:


This is a sticking point for today's Independent Field, which has difficulty coming to grips with the idea that Hubbard was willing to modify auditing tech, and the Grade Chart, for monetary, or PR, or for other, less than noble, reasons.

This becomes particularly messy with the possibility that Hubbard, from the 1960s, or perhaps from the very beginning, may have been doing something else, which was different than his stated - publicized - objectives.

The idea is that the "next step" for the Independent Field is not necessarily to abandon everything on which the name "Scientology" or "Hubbard" is stamped, but to grow up, stop being the "Old Man's" children, and re-examine the subject as honest adults.
 

freethinker

Controversial
I believe that if they believe the results Hubbard spoke about can be actualized, then that is where they should begin and nowhere else.
 

Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
I believe that if they believe the results Hubbard spoke about can be actualized, then that is where they should begin and nowhere else.
Step 1: produce a Clear who displays ALL the advertised attributes of a Clear, as laid out in DMSMH, using any techniques you wish.

But the PC must be gotten to the point of objectively demonstrating ALL the attributes that LRH laid out, and those "abilities gained" must have come FROM auditing (e.g. vision must have IMPROVED to 20/20, not already been 20/20 before)
 
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Zertel

Well-known member
I was in scn during that period when the crossover to Dianetic Clear occurred. I had attested to Dianetic case completion which I guess was no "engrams in restimulation" or something like that, no unwanted attitudes, emotions, sensations or pains. I was training and co-auditing on the grades at ASHO when the Dianetic Drug Rundown came out which addressed any AESPs associated with drugs and alcohol. It was deemed a priority and myself and my co-auditor were transferred to it.

In a session my co-auditor said, "Locate and incident of . . . (whatever it was)". I looked and looked and some kind of visual occurred, a swirling mist above my auditor's head which lasted two or three seconds and then vanished. I laughed out loud and said, "Joe - It's just a joke! There's nothing there!" I guess that qualified as "I mocked it all up", whatever that's supposed to mean, and I got my Dianetic Clear certificate. I think the number was in the 8000's.

That put me in the Non Interference Zone, no further auditing, go directly to the OT levels. Not long after that the monthly price increases resumed. Whatever they were offering on the OT levels I wasn't willing to pay the price and split.
 
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Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
This is a sticking point for today's Independent Field, which has difficulty coming to grips with the idea that Hubbard was willing to modify auditing tech, and the Grade Chart, for monetary, or PR, or for other, less than noble, reasons.
It's a PR World.

In a session my co-auditor said, "Locate and incident of . . . (whatever it was)". I looked and looked and some kind of visual occurred, a swirling mist above my auditor's head which lasted two or three seconds and then vanished. I laughed out loud and said, "Joe - It's just a joke! There's nothing there!" I guess that qualified as "I mocked it all up", whatever that's supposed to mean, and I got my Dianetic Clear certificate.
Mine was when I was talking about some past event and I said something to the extent of: "That is how I remember it, but that is not how it actually happened".
 
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Zertel

Well-known member
Step 1: produce a Clear who displays ALL the advertised attributes of a Clear, as laid out in DMSMH, using any techniques you wish.

But the PC must be gotten to the point of objectively demonstrating ALL the attributes that LRH laid out, and those "abilities gained" must have come FROM auditing (e.g. vision must have IMPROVED to 20/20, not already been 20/20 before)
Everyone likes to nitpick about no spectacular abilities gained from going clear. If someone gains the subjective reality that nothing in their past can affect them negatively in the present and has no regrets about the past when they attest, that would probably be the goal of most legitimate therapies. I like to keep it simple. That said I would not recommend scn as a therapy.
 

Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
Everyone likes to nitpick about no spectacular abilities gained from going clear. If someone gains the subjective reality that nothing in their past can affect them negatively in the present and has no regrets about the past when they attest, that would probably be the goal of most legitimate therapies. I like to keep it simple. That said I would not recommend scn as a therapy.
It's the spectacular abilities promised which attract people who are willing to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars.

A mild "I feel less anxious" is not something the average person would be willing to pay $100,000 to achieve, if he was told up front that this was all that he would get for his money.
 

Zertel

Well-known member
It's the spectacular abilities promised which attract people who are willing to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars.

A mild "I feel less anxious" is not something the average person would be willing to pay $100,000 to achieve, if he was told up front that this was all that he would get for his money.
I agree. In the 1970's you could probably have bought the whole Bridge for $10,000 which might have been the cost of buying a fancy new Cadillac back then. I thought it was worth the money I was paying - until it wasn't.

The Ford Mustang was sometimes call the dollar a pound car. It weighed 2,000 pounds and cost $2,000. Inflation hit with a vengeance in the 1970's but scn was still within reach of a good income earner.
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
.

Step 1: produce a Clear who displays ALL the advertised attributes of a Clear, as laid out in DMSMH, using any techniques you wish.But the PC must be gotten to the point of objectively demonstrating ALL the attributes that LRH laid out, and those "abilities gained" must have come FROM auditing (e.g. vision must have IMPROVED to 20/20, not already been 20/20 before)
.

What you are demanding has actually been routinely accomplished since the release of Dianetics in 1950.

For the past 71 years, Clears have been "objectively demonstrating ALL the attributes that LRH laid out."

Quite obviously, they do these demonstrations at home, while alone.

Because they are Clear on the 1st Dynamic.*



* As soon as someone else enters the room that is the 3rd Dynamic.

.
 

freethinker

Controversial
.


.

What you are demanding has actually been routinely accomplished since the release of Dianetics in 1950.

For the past 71 years, Clears have been "objectively demonstrating ALL the attributes that LRH laid out."

Quite obviously, they do these demonstrations at home, while alone.

Because they are Clear on the 1st Dynamic.*



* As soon as someone else enters the room that is the 3rd Dynamic.

.
Room clears.
 
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