The Rhetoric and Master Plan of Dianetics and Scientology

Chuck J.

Election Fraud Has Consequences
I hereby dub thee, Sir Rhetoric Riddick.

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I noticed that .pdf is the version with the "Mind Schematic" by Dr. Winters. I remember reading DMSMH in Feb. of 1970 at my Aunt's house, (11 y.o.). It was this version. I say this because while I found reading DMSMH interesting reading that weekend, the "Mind Schematic" was confusing. Many years later when I chanced upon a copy again I saw it had been removed.

I'm not commenting on the supposed workability or not, just that the schematic was unnecessary, in my opinion.
 
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Riddick

I clap to no man
I hereby dub thee, Sir Rhetoric Riddick.

View attachment 14641





I noticed that .pdf is the version with the "Mind Schematic" by Dr. Winters. I remember reading DMSMH in Feb. of 1970 at my Aunt's house, (11 y.o.). It was this version. I say this because while I found reading DMSMH interesting reading that weekend, the "Mind Schematic" was confusing. Many years later when I chanced upon a copy again I saw it had been removed.

I'm not commenting on the supposed workability or not, just that the schematic was unnecessary, in my opinion.
The appendices of the original version had a few people, they were Dr Winter, John Campbell, DH Rogers, Will Durant.

The mind schematic was part of the rhetoric to make it be logical, or logos. Campbell's appendix is about the scientific method, the excerpt from Will Durant is about philosophy. Of course later on Hubbard tied it all together, his master plan:

Dianetics = modern science of mental health = scientology = science = philosophy = scientology a applied religious philosophy. I think one should replace = with "is", but not sure how to communicate it, simply.

It's kind of interesting that the original book was dedicated to Will Durant, and it had a appendix at the end quoting Will Durant. Well, it turns out, Will Durant actually said he did not endorse Dianetics but didn't want to get involved in a legal matter. I posted about it somewhere on original exscientology message board, probably under "Gib"

Thanks for bring that up, Chuck J, do you have any other observations..
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
Chapter 10 of the original Dianetics book titled Dianetics Past and Future give his Master Plan. It's very rhetoric and I can see why people fell for Hubbard's stick including myself, we thought we were part of something big that would change the world.

What I'm hoping to discuss or point out is Hubbard's rhetoric in that chapter. If you have been out for awhile, or not, if you reread that chapter you can see Hubbard's rhetoric, it's sort of like musicians seeing music. Of course one has to realize since 1950 his book was but a pipe dream, nobody went clear or OT or returned from past life.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
Here is excerpt of Chapter 10, very beginning, here Hubbard lays down the rhetoric logos or logic in his claptrap:

"The history of dianetics would be the history of a voyage of discovery, of an exploration into new and nearly uncharted realms, Terra Incognita, the Human Mind, a land which lies an inch behind your forehead.

The voyage has taken twelve years and the labor has been long, but we have charts now and can go and return at will.

Observations of savage and civilized races in this and far climes formed the foundation for the anthropological research: the writings of a few men in the last four thousand years formed the scholarly pilots. The ancient Hindu writings, the work of the early Greeks and Romans including Lucretius, the labors of Francis Bacon, the researches of Darwin and some of the thoughts of Herbert Spencer compose the bulk of the philosophic background. Inevitable absorption from our current culture provided much unnoticed information. The remainder has been what the navigator calls, “off the chart.”

In 1935 some of the basic research was begun: in 1938 the primary axioms were discovered and formulated. For the next several years these axioms were tested in the laboratory of the world. The war interrupted the work, as wars will, being chaos, but shortly after the cessation of actual hostilities, research was renewed. Within a year the fundamentals of this science as they applied to the human mind had been integrated. They were tested on a long series of random patients and each test further refined the work, but each application brought specific results '


The question to ask oneself is there any proof Hubbard did what he just said? Or was it rhetoric?
 

PirateAndBum

Administrator
Staff member
You seem to imply that use of rhetoric is incompatible with truth. That's apples and carburetors.

Clearly his writing was false. There was no long series of random patients.
 

TheSneakster

Well-known member
Clearly his writing was false. There was no long series of random patients.
Pardon me for asking this, P&B - how can you possibly know as a true and certain fact the number of subjects Hubbard did or did not test his prototype Dianetics procedures upon prior to the publication of Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health ?

This is the sort of matter Critical Thinkers ought to routinely question: the provenance of purported data or information.
 

Zertel

Well-known member
. . . a voyage of discovery, of an exploration into new and nearly uncharted realms, Terra Incognita, the Human Mind, a land which lies an inch behind your forehead.
Wow! That line put me on a trip down memory lane! As someone who lived through and participated in the "psychedelic revolution", Professor Timothy Leary suggested an alternate approach, namely turning on with LSD. Whether it was ethos, pathos or logos, it was certainly appealing at the time. Scientology came along about a year or two after that exploration for me. Off to the astral plane!

Moody Blues - Timothy Leary

 
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PirateAndBum

Administrator
Staff member
Pardon me for asking this, P&B - how can you possibly know as a true and certain fact the number of subjects Hubbard did or did not test his prototype Dianetics procedures upon prior to the publication of Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health ?

This is the sort of matter Critical Thinkers ought to routinely question: the provenance of purported data or information.
I consulted the Akashic record and could find no long series of random patients. I did find him palin' around with Jack Parson and doing some interesting rites.
 

Bill

Well-known member
Pardon me for asking this, P&B - how can you possibly know as a true and certain fact the number of subjects Hubbard did or did not test his prototype Dianetics procedures upon prior to the publication of Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health ?

This is the sort of matter Critical Thinkers ought to routinely question: the provenance of purported data or information.
Hubbard was a pack rat. He kept everything. If you go to the LRH Museum you can see his Scout uniform and badges, knick-knacks from his childhood, he kept everything.

But not one worksheet/note/record of any patient information prior to DMSMH. And the church looked. When "documenting" Hubbard's many, many claims, they looked.

But, no. Hubbard didn't keep those silly things. Scout badges, sure. Important research notes? Why would he?
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
Hubbard was a pack rat. He kept everything. If you go to the LRH Museum you can see his Scout uniform and badges, knick-knacks from his childhood, he kept everything.

But not one worksheet/note/record of any patient information prior to DMSMH. And the church looked. When "documenting" Hubbard's many, many claims, they looked.

But, no. Hubbard didn't keep those silly things. Scout badges, sure. Important research notes? Why would he?
and thus you understand Hubbard's rhetoric. From above excerpt I provided, here is sub excerpt:

"In 1935 some of the basic research was begun: in 1938 the primary axioms were discovered and formulated. For the next several years these axioms were tested in the laboratory of the world. The war interrupted the work, as wars will, being chaos, but shortly after the cessation of actual hostilities, research was renewed. Within a year the fundamentals of this science as they applied to the human mind had been integrated. They were tested on a long series of random patients and each test further refined the work, but each application brought specific results ' "

So, one has to ask themselves, who were the people in a "laboratory of the world"? Any proof?

One has to also ask themselves "They were tested on a long series of random patients and each test further refined the work, but each application brought specific results"?

So, who were these people, just like you say Bill. And what were the results, did they go clear? What was the specific result?
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
You seem to imply that use of rhetoric is incompatible with truth. That's apples and carburetors.

Clearly his writing was false. There was no long series of random patients.
that's correct, Hubbards rhetoric writing made it sound like a long series of patients, but not true.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
.

TheSneakster said:
Pardon me for asking this, P&B - how can you possibly know as a true and certain fact the number of subjects Hubbard did or did not test his prototype Dianetics procedures.........."

Hubbard was a pack rat. He kept everything. If you go to the LRH Museum you can see his Scout uniform and badges, knick-knacks from his childhood, he kept everything. But not one worksheet/note/record of any patient information prior to DMSMH. And the church looked. When "documenting" Hubbard's many, many claims, they looked.
But, no. Hubbard didn't keep those silly things. Scout badges, sure. Important research notes? Why would he?
.

"Pardon me for asking this, Bill - how can you possibly know as a true and certain fact the number of times Hubbard did or did not" visit Heaven, The Van Allen Belt and Venus.


(Heaven)
"Yes, I've been to heaven."
—Hubbard (link)

(Van Allen Belt)
"I was up on the Van Allen Belt..."
—Hubbard (link)

(Venus)
"I almost got run down by a freight
locomotive the other day (on Venus)...
"
—Hubbard (link)



UPDATE: WHERE DID RON GO LATELY?
L. Ron Hubbard is currently vacationing in deep space at Target Two.


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HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
that's correct, Hubbards rhetoric writing made it sound like a long series of patients, but not true.
.
You entirely missed P&B's point.

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Veda

Well-known member
Hubbard was a pack rat. He kept everything. If you go to the LRH Museum you can see his Scout uniform and badges, knick-knacks from his childhood, he kept everything.

But not one worksheet/note/record of any patient information prior to DMSMH. And the church looked. When "documenting" Hubbard's many, many claims, they looked.

But, no. Hubbard didn't keep those silly things. Scout badges, sure. Important research notes? Why would he?
Does anyone think the "case histories" in DMSMH were real? - other than Hubbard's recollections of beating his first wife and attempting to perform abortions on her?

Seriously, does anyone believe the descriptions of engrams in DMSMH are from Hubbard's scientific research done on a long series of random patients?

If so, that person should post here and tell us why.





From My Philosophy, in which L. Ron Hubbard told Scientologists:

"Blinded with injured optic nerves, and lame with physical injuries to the hip and back, at the end of World War II, I faced an almost non existent future. My service record stated: 'This officer has no neurotic or psychotic tendencies whatsoever', but also stated, 'permanently disabled physically'. And so there came a further blow. I was abandoned by family and friends as a supposedly hopeless cripple and probable burden on them for the rest of my days. Yet I worked myself back to back to fitness and strength in less than two years..."

Hubbard left the navy in December 1945, and promptly appeared at Jack Parson's house in Pasadena, California.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
Does anyone think the "case histories" in DMSMH were real? - other than Hubbard's recollections of beating his first wife and attempting to perform abortions on her?

Seriously, does anyone believe the descriptions of engrams in DMSMH are from Hubbard's scientific research done on a long series of random patients?

If so, that person should post here and tell us why.





From My Philosophy, in which L. Ron Hubbard told Scientologists:

"Blinded with injured optic nerves, and lame with physical injuries to the hip and back, at the end of World War II, I faced an almost non existent future. My service record stated: 'This officer has no neurotic or psychotic tendencies whatsoever', but also stated, 'permanently disabled physically'. And so there came a further blow. I was abandoned by family and friends as a supposedly hopeless cripple and probable burden on them for the rest of my days. Yet I worked myself back to back to fitness and strength in less than two years..."

Hubbard left the navy in December 1945, and promptly appeared at Jack Parson's house in Pasadena, California.
I think it's pretty obvious lots of people did. Nobody knew about Hubbard's background from the get go People still in don't know.

Hubbard is english rhetoric.
 
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