The Church of Scientology says: "Sexual orientation is not a criteria for membership in the Church." We have questions.

ISNOINews

Independent Scientology and Nation of Islam news
The Church of Scientology says: "Sexual orientation is not a criteria for membership in the Church." We have questions.





Screenshot_20210429-161309_1619740557089.png


Note: The Creed of the Church of Scientology does not say anything about sexual orientation. The Church of Scientology's reasoning is non-sequitur.

In any event, we have questions.


Sexual Orientation Questionnaire for the Church of Scientology.


1) Does the Church of Scientology perform gay and lesbian weddings? If the church has not done so to date, is the Church of Scientology willing to perform gay and lesbian weddings?

2) Does the Church of Scientology support adoption by gay and lesbian couples?

3) If the Church of Scientology supports adoption by heterosexual individuals, does the Church of Scientology also support adoption by gay and lesbian individuals?

4) Can a gay or lesbian person become and remain a member of the Church of Scientology in good standing without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay or lesbian sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?

5) Can a gay or lesbian person become and remain Clear in good standing without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay or lesbian sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?

6) Can a gay or lesbian person become and remain OT 8 in good standing without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay or lesbian sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?

7) Can a gay or lesbian person become and remain a non-Sea Org staff member in good standing without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay or lesbian sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?

8) Can a gay or lesbian person become and remain a Sea Org member in good standing without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay or lesbian sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?

9) Can a gay or lesbian person become and remain a member of the clergy of the Church of Scientology in good standing without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay or lesbian sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?

10) Is it TRUE that the Church of Scientology does NOT perform, endorse, advocate or accept the validity of any form of gay or lesbian conversion therapy, or any form of therapy or spiritual practice or technology intended, designed or that has the purpose of changing a gay or lesbian person's sexual orientation from gay or lesbian to heterosexual?

Ver. 3.0

NOTE: In Version 3.0 above, I revised question number 10 to (perhaps awkwardly) include a double negative. I did this so that the Church of Scientology will pass as not discriminating against gay and lesbian people if and only if all of the questions are answered "yes." I believe that overall the questionnaire is less confusing that way, and less likely cause question number 10 to be answered inaccurately.

*************************

Background:

VIDEO: Why You Can't Be Gay In Scientology.




Scientology Homophobia





Screenshot_20210219-151108_1613772710321.png


Scientology’s Homophobia: Even the Church’s Token Gay Guy Was Disgusted


Scientology's Homophobia: Even the Church's Token Gay Guy Was Disgusted | The Village Voice


Screenshot_20210219-151648_1613773066120.png


/
 
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programmer_guy

True ex-Scientologist
That Questionnaire is good. :)
------------------------------------


Here is another question to add to that list:
Can a homosexual person be a PC? I think,Yes.
For example, I knew one PC who was homosexual (but he wasn't on staff).

Also, (in the video) my example criticism of "the Tone Scale" (not the only one) is that a person could be in grief and anger at the same time.

 

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
10) Is it TRUE that the Church of Scientology does NOT perform, endorse, advocate or accept the validity of any form of gay or lesbian conversion therapy, or any form of therapy or spiritual practice or technology intended, designed or that has the purpose of changing a gay or lesbian person's sexual orientation from gay or lesbian to heterosexual?
Karakorum (the entirely unofficial, out-endorsed and non-affiliated spokesman):

Why, of course we do not perform or endorse anything that has the purpose of changing a gay or lesbian person's sexual orientation! Their sexual orientation remains unaffected, we just keep charging them for more processing as long as they keep saying they are lesbian.


The purpose is not to change their sexual orientation, just change the size of their bank account.

Also we do exactly the same sort of things to our straight members, so how can you claim that we discriminate against LGBT? All these media people are just bigoted nitpickers.
 
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The_Fixer

Well-known member
The Church of Scientology says: "Sexual orientation is not a criteria for membership in the Church." We have questions.





View attachment 10897


Note: The Creed of the Church of Scientology does not say anything about sexual orientation. The Church of Scientology's reasoning is non-sequitur.

In any event, we have questions.


Sexual Orientation Questionnaire for the Church of Scientology.


1) Does the Church of Scientology perform gay and lesbian weddings? If the church has not done so to date, is the Church of Scientology willing to perform gay and lesbian weddings?

2) Does the Church of Scientology support adoption by gay and lesbian couples?

3) If the Church of Scientology supports adoption by heterosexual individuals, does the Church of Scientology also support adoption by
gay and lesbian individuals?

4) Can a gay or lesbian person become and remain a member of the Church of Scientology in good standing without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay or lesbian sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?

5) Can a gay or lesbian person become and remain Clear in good standing without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay or lesbian sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?

6) Can a gay or lesbian person become and remain OT 8 in good standing without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay or lesbian sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?

7) Can a gay or lesbian person become and remain a non-Sea Org staff member in good standing without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay or lesbian sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?

8) Can a gay or lesbian person become and remain a Sea Org member in good standing without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay or lesbian sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?

9) Can a gay or lesbian person become and remain a member of the clergy of the Church of Scientology in good standing without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay or lesbian sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?

10) Is it TRUE that the Church of Scientology does NOT perform, endorse, advocate or accept the validity of any form of gay or lesbian conversion therapy, or any form of therapy or spiritual practice or technology intended, designed or that has the purpose of changing a gay or lesbian person's sexual orientation from gay or lesbian to heterosexual?

Ver. 3.0

NOTE: In Version 3.0 above, I revised question number 10 to (perhaps awkwardly) include a double negative. I did this so that the Church of Scientology will pass as not discriminating against gay and lesbian people if and only if all of the questions are answered "yes." I believe that overall the questionnaire is less confusing that way, and less likely cause question number 10 to be answered inaccurately.

*************************

Background:

VIDEO: Why You Can't Be Gay In Scientology.




Scientology Homophobia





View attachment 10898


Scientology’s Homophobia: Even the Church’s Token Gay Guy Was Disgusted


Scientology's Homophobia: Even the Church's Token Gay Guy Was Disgusted | The Village Voice


View attachment 10899


/
Uh, I wonder if the catholic church would be happy to answer yes to any of those questions comfortably as well?

Or the Mormons, Jehovah witnesses, Baptists, et al....
 
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ISNOINews

Independent Scientology and Nation of Islam news
Uh, I wonder if the catholic church would be happy to answer yes to any of those questions comfortably as well?

Or the Mormons, Jehovah witnesses, Baptists, et al....
You are missing the point. The point is that the Catholic Church, Mormons, Jehovah witnesses, and Baptists do not say:

"Sexual orientation is not a criteria for membership in the Church. The first statement in the Creed of the Church of [fill in the blank] is that “All men of whatever race, color or creed were created with equal rights.”"

The issue is honesty, and not misleading people by deliberate and knowing omissions of material facts.

In particular, the Church of Scientology's reference to their Creed is designed to convince gay and lesbian people that the Church of Scientology does not discriminate against them in any way, which is false.

/
 

ISNOINews

Independent Scientology and Nation of Islam news
That Questionnaire is good. :)
------------------------------------


Here is another question to add to that list:
Can a homosexual person be a PC? I think,Yes.
For example, I knew one PC who was homosexual (but he wasn't on staff).
Thank you.

I didn't ask whether a homosexual person be a PC for three reasons.

First, my confident understanding is that homosexual persons can be PCs. Indeed, my understanding is that the Church of Scientology's version of "pray the gay away" is "audit the gay away."

Second, I thought that the issue was adequately covered by the questions regarding Clear and OT 8.

Third, 10 questions is a nice round number, and I didn't want to ruin it by adding one to make eleven. :)

/
 

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
Third, 10 questions is a nice round number, and I didn't want to ruin it by adding one to make eleven.
I'm probably being annoyingly super-logical here, but what is the purpose of having questions 2 and 3 separate? Is it just the couples/individuals difference?

Maybe Its me, but these seem redundant, I am sure you could easily merge it into one.
 

The_Fixer

Well-known member
You are missing the point. The point is that the Catholic Church, Mormons, Jehovah witnesses, and Baptists do not say:

"Sexual orientation is not a criteria for membership in the Church. The first statement in the Creed of the Church of [fill in the blank] is that “All men of whatever race, color or creed were created with equal rights.”"

The issue is honesty, and not misleading people by deliberate and knowing omissions of material facts.

In particular, the Church of Scientology's reference to their Creed is designed to convince gay and lesbian people that the Church of Scientology does not discriminate against them in any way, which is false.

/
Your point is taken and thanks.

What I get at times here is a feeling (<- there's that word again!) that scientology is the majority racist/ homophobic/discriminatory/abusive <insert whatever else here> cult around. So my comments are about pointing out that they are not the only one nor necessarily the worst.

That is, of course, because this board's focus is scientology.

I am not intending to diminish what they do and offer my apologies if that is what seems to be coming across.
 

ISNOINews

Independent Scientology and Nation of Islam news
I'm probably being annoyingly super-logical here, but what is the purpose of having questions 2 and 3 separate? Is it just the couples/individuals difference?
Your guess was correct. It was "the couples/individuals difference." I wanted to ask the Church of Scientology about its position regarding single gay and lesbian people adopting, and to distinguish between whether any objection was based on the individual being: (a) single; or (b) gay or lesbian. I thought that was simpler and easier to do, and more clear, in a separate question.

/
 
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ISNOINews

Independent Scientology and Nation of Islam news
This is an update to the story that I posted in the OP. Given the Church of Scientology's recent Twitter response regarding homosexuality, I decided to check their other Twitter responses on the subject. The results are below.

The big news is that the Church of Scientology admits that it does not perform gay weddings.


The Church of Scientology says that gay people are welcome in the Church. Again, we have questions.





Screenshot_20210503-093236_1620059778601_1620060188623_162006027_1620060531490.png


Note: The Creed of the Church of Scientology does not say anything about sexual orientation. The Church of Scientology's argument is non-sequitur.




Screenshot_20210503-092845_1620059482507_1620060204740_162006025_1620060518362.png




Screenshot_20210503-094024_1620060067649_1620060223807_1620060504437.png


Note: The use of the word "also" is an admission that Hubbard also instructed as a matter of religious doctrine that homosexuality was a "perversion" when he wrote in the nineteen-fifties and sixties. The question is, why should we believe that anything in Scientology religious doctrine regarding homosexuality has changed?

Nonetheless, the Church of Scientology admits that it does not perform gay weddings:





Screenshot_20210503-102453_1620063330949_1620063797402.png


In any event, we have questions.

Sexual Orientation Questionnaire for the Church of Scientology.

1) Does the Church of Scientology support adoption by gay and lesbian couples?

2) If the Church of Scientology supports adoption by heterosexual individuals, does the Church of Scientology also support adoption by gay and lesbian individuals?

3) Can a gay or lesbian person become and remain a member of the Church of Scientology in good standing without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay or lesbian sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?

4) Can a gay or lesbian person receive Auditing (Scientology Pastoral Counseling) without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay or lesbian sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?

5) Can a gay or lesbian person become and remain Clear in good standing without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay or lesbian sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?

6) Can a gay or lesbian person become and remain OT 8 in good standing without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay or lesbian sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?

7) Can a gay or lesbian person become and remain a non-Sea Org staff member in good standing without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay or lesbian sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?

8) Can a gay or lesbian person become and remain a Sea Org member in good standing without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay or lesbiann sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?

9) Can a gay or lesbian person become and remain a member of the clergy of the Church of Scientology in good standing without being required to be celibate, without being required to eventually become heterosexual, and while continuing to have gay or lesbian sex subject only to the same ethical requirements applied to heterosexuals?

10) Is it TRUE that the Church of Scientology does NOT perform, endorse, advocate or accept the validity of any form of gay or lesbian conversion therapy, or any form of therapy or spiritual practice or technology intended, designed or that has the purpose of changing a gay or lesbian person's sexual orientation from gay or lesbian to heterosexual?

Ver. 4.0

NOTE: In Version 4.0 above, I revised question number 10 to (perhaps awkwardly) include a double negative. I did this so that the Church of Scientology will pass as not discriminating against gay and lesbian people if and only if all of the questions are answered "yes." I believe that overall the questionnaire is less confusing that way, and less likely cause question number 10 to be answered inaccurately.


*************************

Background:


VIDEO: Why You Can't Be Gay In Scientology.




Scientology Homophobia


Scientology Homophobia



Screenshot_20210219-151108_1613772710321-1.png


Scientology’s Homophobia: Even the Church’s Token Gay Guy Was Disgusted


Scientology's Homophobia: Even the Church's Token Gay Guy Was Disgusted | The Village Voice





Screenshot_20210219-151648_1613773066120-2.png

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Attachments

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ISNOINews

Independent Scientology and Nation of Islam news
On 5/20/21, the Church of Scientology again replied to a question about sexual orientation as follows:



"Sexual orientation is not a criteria for membership in the Church. The first statement in the Creed of the Church of Scientology is that “All men of whatever race, color or creed were created with equal rights.”"


Screenshot_20210525-202044_1621999317607.png


The Church of Scientology's reply is again non-sequitur and quite frankly makes no sense. What do race, color and creed have to do with sexual orientation?

The Creed of the Church of Scientology does NOT say that “All men of whatever race, color, creed or sexual orientation were created with equal rights.”

So why is the Church of Scientology talking about their Creed when they answer a question about sexual orientation?Screenshot_20210525-202044_1621999317607.png


ETA

Graphic used for Instagram.


http://instagr.am/p/CPUtRxBpx6T/


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La La Lou Lou

Well-known member
Public relations matter.

Sexual orientation of a 'prospect' has never stopped a reg from taking money for services, it has never stopped an IAS reg from taking money as donations, or stopped a recruiter from signing someone up, even for the Sea Organisation. The important point is that the first thing is always stats. Ethics and tech will sort them out later. (it never has).

However Hubbard's writing nails Homosexuality as perversion, at 1.1 on the tone scale, and that such people should be rid of from a sane society.

Top level execs got into the cult when Homosexuality was seen by the general public as perverse and a crime, they have kept that viewpoint.
 
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