Scientologist Bodhisattvas

Veda

Well-known member
I do not have that belief.
You're taking this a wee bit too seriously.

I don't think McMasters was. Listen to Jon Atack's recent interview with Andy Noilch for some insight.
Yes, I saw Jon Atack's comments on McMaster. He described McMaster as "horrible" person. He must have a very low bar for what constitutes "horrible."

I first saw McMaster on American TV, as high school kid, around 1967. He was on the Less Crane interview show. McMaster created a good impression.

It had similarities to Ingo Swann's conversation with the James Randi.

By accident, on a car radio, I once heard Ingo debate James Randi (the debunker of psychics, faith healers, etc.), and it was a very friendly encounter. Randi like Ingo.

Years later, Randi described his experience of Hubbard during the late 1940s.
The first 60% of the video is a Scientologist trying to convert Randi.
The last 40% is a non-Scientologist asking Randi about Hubbard.

One of Ingo's favorite items of Hubbard's writing was a thin black booklet titled, if I recall correctly, Control and mechanics of 8-C. It was about "good (effortless) control" and not having (mental) "ridges." It was one of several things that Hubbard's editor, John Sanborn, had liked, and had showcased, just as he had liked parts of the Phoenix Lectures and showcased that in the (now out of print) book titled the Phoenix Lectures.

The outlook expressed in this thin black booklet was 180 degrees in opposition to the prevailing reality in Scientology at the time which consisted of "effort," screaming, yelling, being "unreasonable," being "ruthless," but Ingo, being Ingo, floated above it all. (It also helped that he, as an artist, etc. was a semi-celebrity.)

Sanborn was publishing what he regarded as (in his words) the (1950s) "peak brilliance" of Hubbard's work, even though Hubbard had, by then, recreated himself as the "Commodore," and created Xenu and the Sea Org - and the staff at the Advanced Org in Los Angeles were dressing up as "whole track implanters" to "re-stimulate" the "wogs" just enough to make them compliant to Scientology body routers, recruiters, and registrars, and get them on the "Bridge to Total Freedom."



During early 1973, I had a long conversation with Ingo Swann, and none of it had anything to do with Scientology, but, while we were talking, someone interrupted and asked if he was a Scientologist, and he answered "yes." Ingo was not pleased to have been asked that question. He did not want to be known as a Scientologist outside of Scientology circles.

After quitting Scientology in '82/'83. Ingo, (from what I have heard) was briefly involved with David Mayo's Advanced Ability Center and, then, got into (ex Elmira, New York Mission Holder) Harry Palmer's Avatar. (Palmer became quite the cult leader, just as Franklin Jones, a.k.a. Bubba Free John, Adi Da, Da Avadhoota, etc. etc., had also established his own cult. Link to Franklin Jones on Scientology.)

Ingo actually did Harry Palmer's Avatar program.

He had also participated in other Self Help and New Age subjects/movements prior to his involvement with Scientology.

He, from accounts, after leaving Scientology Inc., when he could speak freely, thought that doing the introductory portions of Scientology had undone the negative effects of his time in the military. Ingo stated that he had natural psychic sensitivities and abilities as a child, and had lost those sensitivities and abilities as a young adult during his time serving in the military in Korea.

He described Scientology's OT levels as "disappointing."

But I digress.

I doubt there were any Bodhisattva's produced by Scientology. Scientology is diametrically opposite to the state of enlightenment. Scientology is an ego boosting process. Enlightenment is finding out that there is no personal self.
!!!!!!

I never stated that Scientology produced "Bodhisattvas. Please don't misunderstand.

If Scientology HAD produced a Bodhisattva

-snip-
Please see above.

Back to Jon Atack and John McMaster: I never met McMaster but, as I mentioned, saw him on TV, and observed him at other times via recorded video, and, once, listened to a phone interview with him.

He wasn't crazy or "horrible."

That said, he was, unfortunately, a casualty of Hubbard and Scientology. Hubbard mind-gamed McMaster, and McMaster even described some of this mind-gaming (mind manipulation), that Hubbard had done on him and on others, but it still affected him. He became an alcoholic.

I'm not inclined to describe, as "horrible," people who were damaged by Scientology, but that's just me.

In any event, I am not saying that Scientology made Bodhisattvas!
 

Cat's Squirrel

Well-known member
He wasn't crazy or "horrible."

That said, he was, unfortunately, a casualty of Hubbard and Scientology. Hubbard mind-gamed McMaster, and McMaster even described some of this mind-gaming (mind manipulation), that Hubbard had done on him and on others, but it still affected him. He became an alcoholic.

I'm not inclined to describe, as "horrible," people who were damaged by Scientology, but that's just me.

In any event, I am not saying that Scientology made Bodhisattvas!
He was repeatedly overboarded on the ship, and that must have had an effect on him. I never met him either but I recall a class 8 auditor (Norman McVea) say that McMaster's "beauty and love really turned him on to the whole subject" (of Scientology).
 

Ed8

Active member
Could John McMaster have been one? I never knew him but I know that some people who did spoke very highly of him.
John had an enormous clean space far, far beyond the blue-white aura of a normal CC clear. The average cc clear would have a space around the head with an odd, electric pale blue to it, no more than 2 feet in diameter usually. John was more than 40 feet in every direction as a clear, clean space with literally nothing in it.

Does that count as a bodhisattva? The meanings of words get altered over time; Hindus are infamous for taking a normal word used in spiritual or religious discussion and expanding its meaning into something far over the top.

All languages seem to do this. For example 'prove' used to mean to test, now it means to ascertain. A bodhisattva? Let's take the word apart. Bodhi means aware and nothing more. Sattva is the verb to be 'sat' (cognate with 'is') plus a nominative suffix (-va), thus turning the verb into a noun; in English this is a 'being'. So in ancient Sanskrit usage a bodhisattva is an aware being.
 

Cat's Squirrel

Well-known member
John had an enormous clean space far, far beyond the blue-white aura of a normal CC clear. The average cc clear would have a space around the head with an odd, electric pale blue to it, no more than 2 feet in diameter usually. John was more than 40 feet in every direction as a clear, clean space with literally nothing in it.

Does that count as a bodhisattva? The meanings of words get altered over time; Hindus are infamous for taking a normal word used in spiritual or religious discussion and expanding its meaning into something far over the top.

All languages seem to do this. For example 'prove' used to mean to test, now it means to ascertain. A bodhisattva? Let's take the word apart. Bodhi means aware and nothing more. Sattva is the verb to be 'sat' (cognate with 'is') plus a nominative suffix (-va), thus turning the verb into a noun; in English this is a 'being'. So in ancient Sanskrit usage a bodhisattva is an aware being.
My understanding of the word is mainly from Ram Dass; basically, it's someone who's arrived at the point of their evolution where they no longer have to return to the Earth plane (and presumably anywhere else in the physical universe), but does so anyway in order to be able to help those of us who are still here. He says more about it but unfortunately the book of his I'm referring to, "Grist For The Mill", was destroyed in a flood in my home (leaky gas boiler, now replaced).

Essentially though, my understanding of it is that it must involve sacrifice to be genuine. A bodhisattva has earned their freedom from the Earth plane by having learnt and evolved enough to no longer need to be here, but decides to come back anyway to help others (Dass says something like, "never to enter Nirvana until all sentient beings have been saved").
 
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Cat's Squirrel

Well-known member
I've just remembered there's a similar concept in Scientology, although without the implied element of choice. Ron Hubbard said once that "the shiny cars are driven by degraded beings, and you won't be free until they are."
 

Xenu Xenu Xenu

Well-known member
In the 1970s there was a popular tv show called "Kung Fu". David Carradine played the character Kwai Chang Caine who was a Shaolin monk hiding from Chinese authorities by travelling in the old American West.

Said of Caine:

Looked for he cannot be seen
Listened for he cannot be heard
Reached for he cannot be touched

At the time I had no idea what a Bhodisattva was, but those would be some pretty cool OT abilities to develop. Unfortunately scn did not provide me with such.
Yes, back then just thinking and talking about the possibility of OT abilities and the anticipation of becoming OT was what made me and my fellow clams feel "so good" or "uptone and keyed out" if you insist on using those terms. That anticipation kept me sustained during those "happy cult" days before I found out what a fraud it really was.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
.

I've just remembered there's a similar concept in Scientology, although without the implied element of choice. Ron Hubbard said once that "the shiny cars are driven by degraded beings, and you won't be free until they are."
.
.

Wait! Did he really say that? LOL!

If so do you have any link?

I am interested because I just received an urgent telex from Don Hubbard over on the STUPID THREAD and he desperately needs to get his hands on that quote! LOL

If you successfully send that quote, you are entitled to receive an FSM commission equal to ten percent (10%) of the admiration particles that the post receives from members of ESMB. So, you've got that going for you!

.,

.
 

Cat's Squirrel

Well-known member
.


.
.

Wait! Did he really say that? LOL!

If so do you have any link?

I am interested because I just received an urgent telex from Don Hubbard over on the STUPID THREAD and he desperately needs to get his hands on that quote! LOL

If you successfully send that quote, you are entitled to receive an FSM commission equal to ten percent (10%) of the admiration particles that the post receives from members of ESMB. So, you've got that going for you!,.
Yes, he did say it; it was in one of the magazines such as "Advance", not in one of his books. I've googled for it and can't find the quote though it stuck in my mind at the time, which is how I remember it.
 
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Zertel

Well-known member
You're taking this a wee bit too seriously.



Yes, I saw Jon Atack's comments on McMaster. He described McMaster as "horrible" person. He must have a very low bar for what constitutes "horrible."

I first saw McMaster on American TV, as high school kid, around 1967. He was on the Less Crane interview show. McMaster created a good impression.

It had similarities to Ingo Swann's conversation with the James Randi.

By accident, on a car radio, I once heard Ingo debate James Randi (the debunker of psychics, faith healers, etc.), and it was a very friendly encounter. Randi like Ingo.

Years later, Randi described his experience of Hubbard during the late 1940s.
The first 60% of the video is a Scientologist trying to convert Randi.
The last 40% is a non-Scientologist asking Randi about Hubbard.

One of Ingo's favorite items of Hubbard's writing was a thin black booklet titled, if I recall correctly, Control and mechanics of 8-C. It was about "good (effortless) control" and not having (mental) "ridges." It was one of several things that Hubbard's editor, John Sanborn, had liked, and had showcased, just as he had liked parts of the Phoenix Lectures and showcased that in the (now out of print) book titled the Phoenix Lectures.

The outlook expressed in this thin black booklet was 180 degrees in opposition to the prevailing reality in Scientology at the time which consisted of "effort," screaming, yelling, being "unreasonable," being "ruthless," but Ingo, being Ingo, floated above it all. (It also helped that he, as an artist, etc. was a semi-celebrity.)

Sanborn was publishing what he regarded as (in his words) the (1950s) "peak brilliance" of Hubbard's work, even though Hubbard had, by then, recreated himself as the "Commodore," and created Xenu and the Sea Org - and the staff at the Advanced Org in Los Angeles were dressing up as "whole track implanters" to "re-stimulate" the "wogs" just enough to make them compliant to Scientology body routers, recruiters, and registrars, and get them on the "Bridge to Total Freedom."



During early 1973, I had a long conversation with Ingo Swann, and none of it had anything to do with Scientology, but, while we were talking, someone interrupted and asked if he was a Scientologist, and he answered "yes." Ingo was not pleased to have been asked that question. He did not want to be known as a Scientologist outside of Scientology circles.

After quitting Scientology in '82/'83. Ingo, (from what I have heard) was briefly involved with David Mayo's Advanced Ability Center and, then, got into (ex Elmira, New York Mission Holder) Harry Palmer's Avatar. (Palmer became quite the cult leader, just as Franklin Jones, a.k.a. Bubba Free John, Adi Da, Da Avadhoota, etc. etc., had also established his own cult. Link to Franklin Jones on Scientology.)

Ingo actually did Harry Palmer's Avatar program.

He had also participated in other Self Help and New Age subjects/movements prior to his involvement with Scientology.

He, from accounts, after leaving Scientology Inc., when he could speak freely, thought that doing the introductory portions of Scientology had undone the negative effects of his time in the military. Ingo stated that he had natural psychic sensitivities and abilities as a child, and had lost those sensitivities and abilities as a young adult during his time serving in the military in Korea.

He described Scientology's OT levels as "disappointing."

But I digress.



!!!!!!

I never stated that Scientology produced "Bodhisattvas. Please don't misunderstand.



Please see above.

Back to Jon Atack and John McMaster: I never met McMaster but, as I mentioned, saw him on TV, and observed him at other times via recorded video, and, once, listened to a phone interview with him.

He wasn't crazy or "horrible."

That said, he was, unfortunately, a casualty of Hubbard and Scientology. Hubbard mind-gamed McMaster, and McMaster even described some of this mind-gaming (mind manipulation), that Hubbard had done on him and on others, but it still affected him. He became an alcoholic.

I'm not inclined to describe, as "horrible," people who were damaged by Scientology, but that's just me.

In any event, I am not saying that Scientology made Bodhisattvas!
Veda - Your interactions with scn notables in the 1970s is interesting and informative. The pictures and other visual references are also interesting and give a flavor of the times. These type of posts to which I'm replying here are scattered around on numerous threads. Fifty years from now or maybe even a decade from now as scn continues to shrink there may be little interest in scn (as news) with few people reading scn blogs and forums.

Without trying to dump a "project" on you (haha) you might compile many of these recollections and reflections and publish it elsewhere. It would make an interesting coffee table book which you could pick up and read a few of the reflections in any order as an historical perspective from someone who had been there and done that while Hubbard was still alive.

To be continued . . . . . . Here ya go. I just edited a coffee table recollection.
.............................................................................................................................................

Yes, I saw Jon Atack's comments on McMaster. He described McMaster as "horrible" person. He must have a very low bar for what constitutes "horrible."

I first saw McMaster on American TV, as high school kid, around 1967. He was on the Less Crane interview show. McMaster created a good impression.

It had similarities to Ingo Swann's conversation with the James Randi.

By accident, on a car radio, I once heard Ingo debate James Randi (the debunker of psychics, faith healers, etc.), and it was a very friendly encounter. Randi like Ingo.

One of Ingo's favorite items of Hubbard's writing was a thin black booklet titled, if I recall correctly, Control and mechanics of 8-C. It was about "good (effortless) control" and not having (mental) "ridges." It was one of several things that Hubbard's editor, John Sanborn, had liked, and had showcased, just as he had liked parts of the Phoenix Lectures and showcased that in the (now out of print) book titled the Phoenix Lectures.

The outlook expressed in this thin black booklet was 180 degrees in opposition to the prevailing reality in Scientology at the time which consisted of "effort," screaming, yelling, being "unreasonable," being "ruthless," but Ingo, being Ingo, floated above it all. (It also helped that he, as an artist, etc. was a semi-celebrity.)

Sanborn was publishing what he regarded as (in his words) the (1950s) "peak brilliance" of Hubbard's work, even though Hubbard had, by then, recreated himself as the "Commodore," and created Xenu and the Sea Org - and the staff at the Advanced Org in Los Angeles were dressing up as "whole track implanters" to "re-stimulate" the "wogs" just enough to make them compliant to Scientology body routers, recruiters, and registrars, and get them on the "Bridge to Total Freedom."




During early 1973, I had a long conversation with Ingo Swann, and none of it had anything to do with Scientology, but, while we were talking, someone interrupted and asked if he was a Scientologist, and he answered "yes." Ingo was not pleased to have been asked that question. He did not want to be known as a Scientologist outside of Scientology circles.

After quitting Scientology in '82/'83. Ingo, (from what I have heard) was briefly involved with David Mayo's Advanced Ability Center and, then, got into (ex Elmira, New York Mission Holder) Harry Palmer's Avatar. (Palmer became quite the cult leader, just as Franklin Jones, a.k.a. Bubba Free John, Adi Da, Da Avadhoota, etc. etc., had also established his own cult. Link to Franklin Jones on Scientology.)

Ingo actually did Harry Palmer's Avatar program.

He had also participated in other Self Help and New Age subjects/movements prior to his involvement with Scientology.

He, from accounts, after leaving Scientology Inc., when he could speak freely, thought that doing the introductory portions of Scientology had undone the negative effects of his time in the military. Ingo stated that he had natural psychic sensitivities and abilities as a child, and had lost those sensitivities and abilities as a young adult during his time serving in the military in Korea.

He described Scientology's OT levels as "disappointing."

But I digress.

Back to Jon Atack and John McMaster: I never met McMaster but, as I mentioned, saw him on TV, and observed him at other times via recorded video, and, once, listened to a phone interview with him.

He wasn't crazy or "horrible."

That said, he was, unfortunately, a casualty of Hubbard and Scientology. Hubbard mind-gamed McMaster, and McMaster even described some of this mind-gaming (mind manipulation), that Hubbard had done on him and on others, but it still affected him. He became an alcoholic.

I'm not inclined to describe, as "horrible," people who were damaged by Scientology, but that's just me.
 

Attachments

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Zertel

Well-known member
Yes, back then just thinking and talking about the possibility of OT abilities and the anticipation of becoming OT was what made me and my fellow clams feel "so good" or "uptone and keyed out" if you insist on using those terms. That anticipation kept me sustained during those "happy cult" days before I found out what a fraud it really was.
Yes, there was also the "psychedelic revolution" going on with many people believing new perspectives and new paradigms of life and culture were emerging. The Dawning of the Age of Aquarius! I split scn around 1979 because of the price increases which I thought were greedy and unreasonable. At the time I had no problem with the Tek itself and I never experienced any "abuse" so for me I learned some things and can look at it as an interesting and worthwhile life experience.
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
I am interested because I just received an urgent telex from Don Hubbard over on the STUPID THREAD and he desperately needs to get his hands on that quote! LOL

If you successfully send that quote, you are entitled to receive an FSM commission equal to ten percent (10%) of the admiration particles that the post receives from members of ESMB. So, you've got that going for you!
Purpose
Face it. We live in a barbarism. The shiny cars are driven by degraded men.
You won't be free unless they are.

It has taken me ten hard years to make clearing everyone an accomplished fact.
That I could do it was not enough. That you could do it was part of the major plan.

My purpose is to bring a barbarism out of the mud it thinks conceived it and to
form here on Earth a civilization based on human understanding, not violence.

That's a big purpose. A broad field. A star-high goal.

But I think it's your purpose, too.

L. Ron Hubbard
ABILITY. ISSUE 72. APRIL 1958

:hattip:
 
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Cat's Squirrel

Well-known member
Purpose
Face it. We live in a barbarism. The shiny cars are driven by degraded men.
You won't be free unless they are.

It has taken me ten hard years to make clearing everyone an accomplished fact.
That I could do it was not enough. That you could do it was part of the major plan.

My purpose is to bring a barbarism out of the mud it thinks conceived it and to
form here on Earth a civilization based on human understanding, not violence.

That's a big purpose. A broad field. A star-high goal.

But I think it's your purpose, too.

L. Ron Hubbard
ABILITY. ISSUE 72. APRIL 1958

:hattip:
Hats off to you for finding that one! I think I was close anyway.
 

Ed8

Active member
Purpose
Face it. We live in a barbarism. The shiny cars are driven by degraded men.
You won't be free unless they are.

It has taken me ten hard years to make clearing everyone an accomplished fact.
That I could do it was not enough. That you could do it was part of the major plan.

My purpose is to bring a barbarism out of the mud it thinks conceived it and to
form here on Earth a civilization based on human understanding, not violence.

That's a big purpose. A broad field. A star-high goal.

But I think it's your purpose, too.

L. Ron Hubbard
ABILITY. ISSUE 72. APRIL 1958

:hattip:
That quote from Hubbard would be sheer stupidity by him if it weren't for the fact that he didn't mean a word of it; it's advertising. Anyone else ever run incidents off the magic track? I have and can tell you that the worst evil I have seen was big unabberated beings in that magic universe doing horrible, evil things deliberately. His words above also conflict with his "cleared cannibal" remarks. Trust me because I have been there: a clear and OT demon of darkness is a monster you never want to encounter. These demons become demons by choice. Hubbard was a liar.
 

Chuck J.

Election Fraud Has Consequences

Bodhisattva
Would you take me by the hand
Bodhisattva
Would you take me by the hand
Can you show me
The shine of your Japan
The sparkle of your china
Can you show me
Bodhisattva
Bodhisattva
I'm gonna sell my house in town
Bodhisattva I'm gonna sell my house in town
And I'll be there
To shine in your Japan
To sparkle in your China
Yes I'll be there
Bodhisattva
 

Marko Ex

Active member
Purpose
Face it. We live in a barbarism. The shiny cars are driven by degraded men.
You won't be free unless they are.

It has taken me ten hard years to make clearing everyone an accomplished fact.
That I could do it was not enough. That you could do it was part of the major plan.

My purpose is to bring a barbarism out of the mud it thinks conceived it and to
form here on Earth a civilization based on human understanding, not violence.

That's a big purpose. A broad field. A star-high goal.

But I think it's your purpose, too.

L. Ron Hubbard
ABILITY. ISSUE 72. APRIL 1958

:hattip:
Ah, the humble Hubbard brag...🤔😌
I still get annoyed when I see quotes like these...The ol' pill-popping, jerking-off-on-a-plate-with-rocket-boy,
intellectually lazy, intergalactic grifter...working so hard to fuck us over, er, show us the path to enlightenment(lighter in the pockets)...*Sigh*
Nice work on tracking down the quote, though!👍🏾👏🏽
 
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