Redundancy and internal infighting in the CoS

Karakorum

Well-known member
I would like to open this thread with a section of Jon Atack's interview. If you click the vid above it should bring you automatically to the correct timestamp, but if it does not then I am speaking about the timestamp between 16:45 and 19:55.

The key quote is:
Jon Atack said:
"You've got all these mechanisms just like the Nazis did, you have different departments doing the same thing and fighting each other over it. so everything remains in turmoil, remarkably inefficient but nobody gets to steal the money"
Some quotes just hit the nail on the head and this is one of them. I think Jon, in his very precise way, has put in one sentence the reason why I left scientology and the SO.

I'm 2nd gen. I already knew the upper management sucked. I already knew that we won't clear the planet in my lifetime and probably never. I was not a great fan of processing or the tech at that point. But I still soldiered on, woke up every day, worked very hard shoulder to shoulder with my comrades who also gave their best...

... and I felt I spent only 20% of my time and 20% of my effort getting actual work done. The remaining 80% was getting around the various obstacles, idiocies of the admin tech, weird reporting structures, rules within rules within rules that had to be obeyed but that otherwise had no real meaning or effect over anything.

Scientology creates most of its own workload and it does so needlessly.

Redundancy is one of the main demons. I recall times where I was busy fixing some old case that was done by FinPo, only to realize OSA is also working on it at the same time and that in the past some CMO nonsense was also doing the same thing.
The system was designed so that we would all step on each other's toes, because the boundaries of our responsibilities blurred and overlapped. Of course on top of that was internecine animosity - we tried our best NOT to help OSA, they tried their best NOT to help us in any way. Jon is absolutely right, because years later when I read about the Abwehr and the Gestapo and the SD all fighting with one another and stepping on each other's toes... that sounded SO FAMILIAR.

You see, the point of all of that was to prevent any one group of becoming big and independent enough to stage any sort of internal SO coup. Dave came to power as a result of a palace coup and he did not want the same thing happen to him. So if OSA conspired to get him, he could call on security or us at Inv. If we would try to pull a fast one, he could call OSA.
I'm sure they spied on us as much as we spied on them.


But the "EP" of all that redundancy was so much inefficiency and chaos, that people like me would give up or die trying. I gave up.
At one point I decided: "Nope, this machine is broken beyond repair. I'll never be able to make it work efficiently, even if I rise to the very top. Its always gonna be a dreadful busy, fussy mad mess and I want no part of it". I was tired beyond my feelings of loyalty and duty.

In short: I left because I was tired of being tired. And I guess that's one small example how this self-defeating, back-biting corporate structure that is Scientology crumbles away. Scientology is its own worst enemy.
 
Last edited:

PirateAndBum

Administrator
Staff member
Yeah, but writing letters to CF public was really the best! Especially the ones that had fifty prior letters over the span of 20 years of no reply. Wow, it was really super inspiring to be given the opportunity to reach out and touch someone.

I really loved the all-hands to get the bulk-mail out too. It really was a special treat to add that to my 100 hour work schedule (and I was Fnd staff only:faceslap:)
 

Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
Feeling like I wasn't getting anything useful done was my reason for leaving the SO as well.
 

Lee #28

Well-known member
This is all very interesting info. As I was not in the SO.....I was not really aware of all this happening.

It now makes sense to me why, administratively speaking,.....the SO really doesn't get much done.

Throwing in my own 2 cents. Basically the same situation existed for Public Cult persons....

The Bridge changed continually....

The Courses changed continually....

I was on 3 different Saint Hill Briefing Course check sheets within 2 1/2 years.....and another new check sheet was coming out, when I left.

Edited: Got kicked out.....so left.
 
Last edited:

Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
People would put in HUGE amounts of effort to get a "product" to happen THIS week, which would otherwise happen with much less effort if it could slide into next week. But, had to get this week's stats up.

In one of my posts, I would try to keep my stats in "normal". My game was to see how early in the week I could make it to normal, then try to shift products so that they counted the following week, so I could get next week off to a good start.
 

Dotey OT

Dis-Membered
Now that you mention it, there are many untold stupid stories of stupid management activities, such as DOING COMPLIANCE REPORTS WITH EVIDENCE, over and over again in a class V org. But I was able to go home at night.
 

Alanzo

Not a Team Player
A mission holder in Champaign, IL, the home of an endless stream of students in temporary housing at the University of Illinois, once burned his entire central files because the bulk mailings mandated in capital letters by HCOPL GROSS INCOME SENIOR DATUM were wasting all the money he already didn't have to run his mission.

Burning Central Files was considered a suppressive act, of course, so he was comm eved, declared and expelled for this desperate act of survival.

This former mission holder then went to college, got a degree, and is a happy exec at Caterpillar today.

The Champaign mission closed permanently 3 years ago.
 
Last edited:

Karakorum

Well-known member
People would put in HUGE amounts of effort to get a "product" to happen THIS week, which would otherwise happen with much less effort if it could slide into next week. But, had to get this week's stats up.
Yep, had the same thing many many times: "We need to close this aging case now. I know we are probably 3 steps from a breakthrough, but this has to be closed by EOD today. 'There must be a victory!' and all that jazz".
... cause you know its an aging case. :screwy:
Victory my ass.

I did get glimpses of how the work would look if we were free of the constraints of the standard procedures and the admin tech. At the continental level sometimes it was blatantly obvious when the higher ups got interested and I was given a green light to plow on, cutting corners and doing whatever I wanted as long as the job got done. Then it became a TOTALLY different game.
There was a meeting when I flat out told them: "I can close this case by next Thursday and he'll get away with a slap on the wrist. Give me a month with extra resources and I will boil him alive." They gave me the green light and one month later I was grinning like a jackal holding video evidence. He in turn was standing tall before the man for molesting female staff. He got kicked out of the church in the end. That was one of the high points I had in my career there.
If my guys would get such a green light more often, the CoS would be a very different place.

In one of my posts, I would try to keep my stats in "normal". My game was to see how early in the week I could make it to normal, then try to shift products so that they counted the following week, so I could get next week off to a good start.
I think everyone who worked with that system for more than 2 months was guilty of that in some respect. :D
 

Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
I think everyone who worked with that system for more than 2 months was guilty of that in some respect. :D
Part of it was from wanting my "liberty" time. At Flag at the time, you would get a day off every other week, if your stats were up in the week just ended. This resulted in my stats looking like a sawtooth pattern, with me making sure that the weeks which determined whether I got libs were up.

They later got wise to that and changed the policy to also require the three week trend be up.
 

Karakorum

Well-known member
Part of it was from wanting my "liberty" time. At Flag at the time, you would get a day off every other week, if your stats were up in the week just ended. This resulted in my stats looking like a sawtooth pattern, with me making sure that the weeks which determined whether I got libs were up.

They later got wise to that and changed the policy to also require the three week trend be up.
We wouldn't get a full day. But we would get Saturday mornings.

EDIT: As for the saw-tooth pattern - I actually used that strategy at one corporate office job in the big world years after I left the CoS. It worked like a charm! 2 big slumps in December (Sorry boss, Christmas season) and in July (sorry boss, vacation season), while all other months there was steady growth. The corporation loved that.
 

Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
We wouldn't get a full day. But we would get Saturday mornings.

EDIT: As for the saw-tooth pattern - I actually used that strategy at one corporate office job in the big world years after I left the CoS. It worked like a charm! 2 big slumps in December (Sorry boss, Christmas season) and in July (sorry boss, vacation season), while all other months there was steady growth. The corporation loved that.
PAC complex in LA had a different system at the time, where instead of getting a full day every other week, you would get 1/2 day every week that your stats were up. But, yes, it nevertheless created an incentive where, if you knew you were going to be down for the week, you might as well be very down, so as to make next week easier.
 

Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
A mission holder in Champaign, IL, the home of an endless stream of students in temporary housing at the University of Illinois, once burned his entire central files because the bulk mailings mandated in capital letters by HCOPL GROSS INCOME SENIOR DATUM were wasting all the money he already didn't have to run his mission.
I went looking for my old OEC volumes, didn't find them, possibly threw them out. I vaguely remember an old policy from there about CF.

You did a bulk mail of just the monthly org mag to CF, and just once a month. NOT a continual flow of junk mail to everyone who ever bought a Dianetics book 20 years ago, and were never heard from again.
 

Karakorum

Well-known member
PAC complex in LA had a different system at the time, where instead of getting a full day every other week, you would get 1/2 day every week that your stats were up. But, yes, it nevertheless created an incentive where, if you knew you were going to be down for the week, you might as well be very down, so as to make next week easier.
Yeah that's exactly what we had 1/2 off, saturday mornings. The stat system ... the only way to get anything out of it was to game it.
 

Alanzo

Not a Team Player
I went looking for my old OEC volumes, didn't find them, possibly threw them out. I vaguely remember an old policy from there about CF.

You did a bulk mail of just the monthly org mag to CF, and just once a month. NOT a continual flow of junk mail to everyone who ever bought a Dianetics book 20 years ago, and were never heard from again.
It's that one reference - something like, "THE NUMBER OF LETTERS TO CENTRAL FILES' blah blah "DETERMINES THE GROSS INCOME OF AN ORG".

The CO SMI EUS, who used to run all the mission holders was Cary Goulston, a complete fanatic. He would yell and scream at this mission holder and force him to spend money every week sending out mailings to addresses that will just be returned to him by the post office. And he had to go pay to pick up the returns at the post office too!

Every week.

The Champaign Mission had a HUGE CF from being in business since the late 60's, I believe. 99.4% of the names in CF were people who had moved back home from college - most decades ago.

But because Scientology is a 100% standard ideological organization, this "senior datum" NEVER WORKED in Champaign and was constantly destructive to them when they were forced to apply it.

No Scientologist had the power, or critical thinking skills, to see that.

Except for that one mission holder. And they declared and expelled him. :LOL:
 
Last edited:

Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
I went looking for my old OEC volumes, didn't find them, possibly threw them out. I vaguely remember an old policy from there about CF.

You did a bulk mail of just the monthly org mag to CF, and just once a month. NOT a continual flow of junk mail to everyone who ever bought a Dianetics book 20 years ago, and were never heard from again.
Update for @Alanzo , turns out I did have my old original OEC vol 1. And it's also available online.

Original OEC vol 1, page 268 (at the link above, PDF page 291)

My bold:

HCO POLICY LETTER OF 16 APRIL 1962
Central Orgs
COMMENTS ON LETTER REGISTRAR DEPARTMENT
The Letter Registrar department system is very concise. Central Files contain folders of persons who have bought something. Not idle lists.
C/F folders contain names of persons active in the last three years, persons who wrote to us or bought something.
Addresso is the card file system of C/F. Addresso plates are tabbed in such a way that they reflect C/F exactly, without further card files. Addresso gives the Letter Registrar card files from the Addresso plates.
Other lists, such as the Old Dianeticist list, and their correspondence remain valuable, and should be kept intact. Such lists should receive at least one mailing every year.
(snip)
 

Alanzo

Not a Team Player
Yes. But this was the 1968 policy GROSS INCOME - SENIOR DATUM.

So since "knowledge is like a pyramid" :hysterical: and this is in CAPITAL LETTERS as a SENIOR DATUM (a "Q", if you will, from which all knowledge flows) and since it is a later refinement of your previous ref from 1962 - this was the one that was ENFORCED HARD down the lines on ALL ORGS AND MISSIONS WITH NO BACKFLASH.

Because knowledge is a pyramid.
 
Last edited:

PirateAndBum

Administrator
Staff member
FCDC had a huge CF being that the org was started in the 50's. It was something like 100,000 names. That 3 year bit was never followed.
 

Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
FCDC had a huge CF being that the org was started in the 50's. It was something like 100,000 names. That 3 year bit was never followed.
And I'm going to guess it was at least 90% "Address No Good". Or closer to 99%?

People move, and orgs were typically reluctant to spend extra for "address correction" mailings (where the post office sends back the forwarding address of people who move, which is only kept for about 6 months). After a while, your mailing list is mostly rotten.

Another reason why org management was reluctant to do address correction, was that it would then show up the addresses which were no good, and thus needed to be removed from Addresso. Removing addresses from the list meant that the Bulk Mail stat went down.
 
Top