Pre-Cult Personality

JeansAndRice

Active member
We started discussing this topic on another thread (and maybe there's an earlier discussion that my search didn't reveal), but I wanted to dedicate some space to this idea. I can't remember if I found this paper via this forum, or if I came upon it during my own research:
An Investigation into Cult Pseudo-Personality: What Is It and How Does It Form?

It has some useful insight into this idea of a pre-cult personality, and gives great simple visuals to talk about the different types of personality overlays/supplantation that can occur within a cult.

As I've said, my experience with this is that being born into Scn, I don't have a pre-cult personality to attempt to rediscover. Or more like, I don't know what a pre-cult personality is in me, simply a non-cult personality that I'm really trying to get to know. Any other second-gen'rs have insight on this process?

Everybody, talk to me about your pre-cult, in-cult, and post-cult selves..

What do you think are some aspects of what we could call the "Scientology personality?" with the assumption there is one.

For those of you who joined as barely adults, what were the challenges with rediscovering yourself, or your pre-cult personality?

Also, does anybody have any good insight on Scn from the Anthroposophical lense? I love Steiner's ideas on human development, and have always wondered how Scn might interfere with this process of incarnating and excarnating, and the other ideas in Anthroposophy..
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
Everybody, talk to me about your pre-cult, in-cult, and post-cult selves..

.
PRE-CULT ME: Me wandering around in the world wondering wtf is going on.
IN-CULT ME: Me wandering around the universe with total certainty wtf was going on.
POST-CULT ME: Me wandering around the world wondering wtf is going on.

After I wrote that last line, I realized that it is the identical "cycle" that cult marks go thru. On the first day they show up at the org, they don't know who they are, but they are hoping to find out who they are. During Scientology they discover many things they are---but unfortunately those identities are the delusional Clear valence and the OT valence. Later, upon completing OT VIII, they attest that they (still) "don't know who they are but they are interested to find out". Exactly the same as the first day they met the cult, except they have lost decades of their life and $600,000 or more.

Considering those two parallel events (above) Scientology is like getting lost while driving a car and then spending the next half-century trying to find a place that sells road maps. At the end of that quest you finally find a gas station that sells road maps and when you buy it and look, it has an arrow pointing to the gas station where you are with the caption: "YOU ARE HERE BUT YOU ARE STILL LOST".

.
 
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Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
We started discussing this topic on another thread (and maybe there's an earlier discussion that my search didn't reveal), but I wanted to dedicate some space to this idea. I can't remember if I found this paper via this forum, or if I came upon it during my own research:
An Investigation into Cult Pseudo-Personality: What Is It and How Does It Form?

It has some useful insight into this idea of a pre-cult personality, and gives great simple visuals to talk about the different types of personality overlays/supplantation that can occur within a cult.

As I've said, my experience with this is that being born into Scn, I don't have a pre-cult personality to attempt to rediscover. Or more like, I don't know what a pre-cult personality is in me, simply a non-cult personality that I'm really trying to get to know. Any other second-gen'rs have insight on this process?

Everybody, talk to me about your pre-cult, in-cult, and post-cult selves.
I first encountered the term "Pre-cult self" in Steve Hassan's book "combating cult mind control". I'm not sur eif he is the one who coined it, but I think he is. NOTE: You can get the 1988 version of Hassan's book free from archive.org (link here)

I never had a pre-cult personality, because I was born into the cult. Having said that, I lived in "the big world" in a relatively non-dogmatic family of public scientologists till the age of 11. Afterwards I just lived inside scientology facilities.

My main 'issues' is actually with the post-cult-self. I keep second-guessing myself at times in a: "Is this my own thinking/behavior, or is this just leftover cult programming? Or is this an artificial anti-cult-reflex reaction?"Especially when it comes to bad decisions or negative traits.

I've always been a self-confident megalomaniac, so that at least is "pure me". But the consistent preference for solitary activites, low empathy (despite having good social skills otherwise) and having little to no need for human interactions... I have no idea if its me or if its the cult.
Sometimes I think that I went through so much team-building-group-first-gung-ho in the SO that I had enough of taht for a lifetime and that introversion is just a natural reaction of balancing it all out.

Lack of any sort of romantic life or romantic drive... that's probably the cult, not me.

High resistance to pressure, assertiveness and willingness to "rock the boat" - that's in some way the cult. Or at least its a product of me going through the cult and through the process of standing up to authority and then leaving the cult.
So this one might be an element of a "cult-personality", but one that I nevertheless find it a useful thing to have in the big world.

What do you think are some aspects of what we could call the "Scientology personality?" with the assumption there is one.
Great question. I would certainly point to the following ones:
- Black and white thinking.
- The "You are a traitor unless you agree with us 100%. If you agree with 99% of what I say then you are still a traitor" mindset. I saw that a lot inside, I see this a lot in the ex-scn community but I do not see much of it in the general population. The only parts of the general population where I saw it were political extremists.
- Having absolute certainty. The sort of: "Once you make your mind about a certain issue, you then never go back to re-think it or question it when you get new information". Again, I'm seeing it in the ex-scn community and inside the cult, but far less so in the general population. Again, in the general population I see this mostly in political radicals.
- If something bad happens to me, then its my fault - "I pulled it in". I saw this a lot in the cult, but people shed this very quickly and I've not seen much of it in the ex-scn community, other than maybe some indies. Even in their case it is very mild.
- Using your own emotions as tools used to complete tasks. Inside when I was supposed to talk to the public, I was expected to display cheerful optimism. When talking to colleagues or subordinates, I was expected to "tone 40" everything. When talking to "ethics particles" as an MAA, I was expected to adjust and display all sorts of things from being helpful and caring, through open hostility, racism, creepy-lewdness, 1.1... anything that would be required to make the person brake and start talking, without pushing them so far as to make him/her panic or fall into grim determination.
In inv you are never expected to just "get mad" at the suspect. You decide to deliberately get mad and then proceed to act in this manner to elicit the specific response you want to get from him/her. Nothing is done in a spontaneous manner just because you really feel like that. Everything is deliberate and effect-oriented.
I think Scientology is relatively unique is that it not only expects its members to stay cheerful and cooperative all the time, but also expects them to change their altitude all the time at the drop of a hat for purely utilitarian purposes. :confused: I can still do all that shit btw.
- Ascribing causality of all sorts of things to groups or individuals, rather than natural forces or huge impersonal processes. The "It must be the fault of republicans/democrats/millennials. It is in no way an inherent effect of global economic processes" mindset. It is even more pronounced when compared to the world of finance, where everything is explained as global mechanisms of supply&demand&local production costs etc. It is all about the "process". When I get out of that world and go into the ex-scn world it suddenly is all about "people". The contrast can be very jarring.
- Looking at large amount of data / big structures in a way that would allow you to quickly go through the whole thing while spotting all the errors and outpoints. The only people outside of scientology ethics that work with this mindset that I ever saw were fraud prevention compliance analysts and corporate quality assurance people.
 
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JeansAndRice

Active member

JeansAndRice

Active member
I first encountered the term "Pre-cult self" in Steve Hassan's book "combating cult mind control". I'm not sur eif he is the one who coined it, but I think he is. NOTE: You can get the 1988 version of Hassan's book free from archive.org (link here)

I never had a pre-cult personality, because I was born into the cult. Having said that, I lived in "the big world" in a relatively non-dogmatic family of public scientologists till the age of 11. Afterwards I just lived inside scientology facilities.

My main 'issues' is actually with the post-cult-self. I keep second-guessing myself at times in a: "Is this my own thinking/behavior, or is this just leftover cult programming? Or is this an artificial anti-cult-reflex reaction?"Especially when it comes to bad decisions or negative traits.

I've always been a self-confident megalomaniac, so that at least is "pure me". But the consistent preference for solitary activites, low empathy (despite having good social skills otherwise) and having little to no need for human interactions... I have no idea if its me or if its the cult.
Sometimes I think that I went through so much team-building-group-first-gung-ho in the SO that I had enough of taht for a lifetime and that introversion is just a natural reaction of balancing it all out.

Lack of any sort of romantic life or romantic drive... that's probably the cult, not me.

High resistance to pressure, assertiveness and willingness to "rock the boat" - that's in some way the cult. Or at least its a product of me going through the cult and through the process of standing up to authority and then leaving the cult.
So this one might be an element of a "cult-personality", but one that I nevertheless find it a useful thing to have in the big world.


Great question. I would certainly point to the following ones:
- Black and white thinking.
- The "You are a traitor unless you agree with us 100%. If you agree with 99% of what I say then you are still a traitor" mindset. I saw that a lot inside, I see this a lot in the ex-scn community but I do not see much of it in the general population. The only parts of the general population where I saw it were political extremists.
- Having absolute certainty. The sort of: "Once you make your mind about a certain issue, you then never go back to re-think it or question it when you get new information". Again, I'm seeing it in the ex-scn community and inside the cult, but far less so in the general population. Again, in the general population I see this mostly in political radicals.
- If something bad happens to me, then its my fault - "I pulled it in". I saw this a lot in the cult, but people shed this very quickly and I've not seen much of it in the ex-scn community, other than maybe some indies. Even in their case it is very mild.
- Using your own emotions as tools used to complete tasks. Inside when I was supposed to talk to the public, I was expected to display cheerful optimism. When talking to colleagues or subordinates, I was expected to "tone 40" everything. When talking to "ethics particles" as an MAA, I was expected to adjust and display all sorts of things from being helpful and caring, through open hostility, racism, creepy-lewdness, 1.1... anything that would be required to make the person brake and start talking, without pushing them so far as to make him/her panic or fall into grim determination.
In inv you are never expected to just "get mad" at the suspect. You decide to deliberately get mad and then proceed to act in this manner to elicit the specific response you want to get from him/her. Nothing is done in a spontaneous manner just because you really feel like that. Everything is deliberate and effect-oriented.
I think Scientology is relatively unique is that it not only expects its members to stay cheerful and cooperative all the time, but also expects them to change their altitude all the time at the drop of a hat for purely utilitarian purposes. :confused: I can still do all that shit btw.
- Ascribing causality of all sorts of things to groups or individuals, rather than natural forces or huge impersonal processes. The "It must be the fault of republicans/democrats/millennials. It is in no way an inherent effect of global economic processes" mindset. It is even more pronounced when compared to the world of finance, where everything is explained as global mechanisms of supply&demand&local production costs etc. It is all about the "process". When I get out of that world and go into the ex-scn world it suddenly is all about "people". The contrast can be very jarring.
- Looking at large amount of data / big structures in a way that would allow you to quickly go through the whole thing while spotting all the errors and outpoints. The only people outside of scientology ethics that work with this mindset that I ever saw were fraud prevention compliance analysts and corporate quality assurance people.
Thank yoooooou!!! This was great to read. And also thank you for the link to Combating Cult Mind Control.

I really resonate with a lot of these, and feel like you definitely are touching on a lot of what makes a Scientology personality. One that really struck me, and one I've been struggling with is Using your own emotions as tools used to complete tasks.
NOW this one for me is weird, because I never had extensive drilling on the tone scale, but I can easily look into my past beliefs and actions for evidence that I've manipulated others with my emotions. Or used my emotions as a tool. The separation from emotion here is what I'm trying to unlearn. Additionally, the idea of "pulled it in" I think is a rather insidious one, as I don't think it is always obvious when this concept is at work. My parents who have not been active in some years still ascribe to this belief, even to the point that when my mother had a stroke last year, the idea was brought up [by my dad] to have her do conditions!!!!!!!!!!!:bignono: GAHHH WTF. Anyhow, sadly at the time I didn't have much energy to say otherwise, though we never went through with this idea... just the IDEA makes me so sick and ashamed.
I think a lot of the aspects of a Scientology personality are definitely shared by other religious extremists and fundamentalists.
And... I also think what has helped my post-cult self a lot is seeing other post-culties... and being seen. :heartbeat:
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
I love this. If that doesn't just sum up everything... well shucks.
.
Thx!

Scientology is famous for such surprise endings. Here's another. . .

FIRST DAY IN SCIENTOLOGY: Scientologists begin frantically lecturing you: "It's your reactive mind!!! It's your reactive mind!!! It's your reactive mind!!!"
HALF WAY THRU SCIENTOLOGY: Scientologists give you a moment of applause (when you go Clear) and then immediately begin frantically lecturing you: "It's other's reactive mind!!! It's other's reactive mind!!! It's other's reactive mind!!!" Thus begins the OT 1 thru OT VIII portion of the Bridge--chasing and trying to erase BT's cases.​
LAST DAY IN SCIENTOLOGY: Scientologists begin frantically lecturing you: "It's your crimes!!! It's your crimes!!! It's your crimes!!!" But by this point you have developed a healthy immunity to the cult's rhetorical gimmicks, lies & gaslighting---thus you blow in spite of all that repetitive tone 40 chanting.​
.
 
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Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
I really resonate with a lot of these, and feel like you definitely are touching on a lot of what makes a Scientology personality. One that really struck me, and one I've been struggling with is Using your own emotions as tools used to complete tasks.
NOW this one for me is weird, because I never had extensive drilling on the tone scale, but I can easily look into my past beliefs and actions for evidence that I've manipulated others with my emotions. Or used my emotions as a tool. The separation from emotion here is what I'm trying to unlearn.
Scientology is all about creating a "fake self", which can be used to "get a product".

The auditor is trained to use the tone scale in responding to the PC in session. The auditor is trained to NEVER display his real emotion to the PC (that might be "evaluation and invalidation"), but instead to display whatever emotion gets the session to progress. Same deal with "Ethics" staff, reges, etc, etc.

After buying into all this, it's easy to lose "who you really are", or even lose the concept of a "real" self.
 

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
Thank yoooooou!!! This was great to read. And also thank you for the link to Combating Cult Mind Control.

I really resonate with a lot of these, and feel like you definitely are touching on a lot of what makes a Scientology personality. One that really struck me, and one I've been struggling with is Using your own emotions as tools used to complete tasks.
NOW this one for me is weird, because I never had extensive drilling on the tone scale, but I can easily look into my past beliefs and actions for evidence that I've manipulated others with my emotions. Or used my emotions as a tool. The separation from emotion here is what I'm trying to unlearn.
Well, the "curious" part of using your emotions as a tool that I discovered is that it is actually 3 separate things:
  • A reflex-reaction induced through cult conditioning
  • A mindset
  • A skill
You get get rid of the first one with ease, once you leave the cult. Getting rid of the second one takes time. You will never get rid of the last one, you will take that skill to your grave. My approach is to make the best of it. Find a job or lifestyle where this sort of things are useful. Not surprisingly, these skills are rare in the big world and there's social functions and jobs where these come in useful.


Additionally, the idea of "pulled it in" I think is a rather insidious one, as I don't think it is always obvious when this concept is at work. My parents who have not been active in some years still ascribe to this belief, even to the point that when my mother had a stroke last year, the idea was brought up [by my dad] to have her do conditions!!!!!!!!!!!:bignono: GAHHH WTF. Anyhow, sadly at the time I didn't have much energy to say otherwise, though we never went through with this idea... just the IDEA makes me so sick and ashamed.
That is one of the most pernicious and insidious ideas Hubbard came up with. It is also shared by a lot of other cults where it is attributed to "karma", the "law of attraction" (Which is in Thelema which is where Hubbard got it from when he was just a cultie himself). You can even find it in theist cults, where this is attributed to "if bad things happen to you, then it means God is angry with you".

I think a lot of the aspects of a Scientology personality are definitely shared by other religious extremists and fundamentalists.
And... I also think what has helped my post-cult self a lot is seeing other post-culties... and being seen. :heartbeat:
Yep, they are also common in non-religious extremist high control groups, or even abusive companies or MLMs.

The thing that I think is pretty unique is the "emotions as a tool" part, including deliberately using "fake" negative emotions to disorient or unnerve a person. Most other cults never dare to go that far and instead remain satisfied with just: "Every member needs to be perfectly happy all the time and never complain" part.
 

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
Scientology is all about creating a "fake self", which can be used to "get a product".

The auditor is trained to use the tone scale in responding to the PC in session. The auditor is trained to NEVER display his real emotion to the PC (that might be "evaluation and invalidation"), but instead to display whatever emotion gets the session to progress. Same deal with "Ethics" staff, reges, etc, etc.

After buying into all this, it's easy to lose "who you really are", or even lose the concept of a "real" self.
I'd say it is more than that, at least in the SO. You do not just lose "who you really are", you also gain something. I'm somewhat lost for words how to describe it, but the best thing that comes to mind is a "design-for-effect" - that's now who you are.

Which is not always a bad thing. In the big world almost everyone treats oneself as an "end", with everything external as means to achieve said end. But sometimes it is just so darn useful and effective to treat yourself as a "means". The vast majority of never-ins do not even realize this approach is possible.
 

JeansAndRice

Active member
This is put brilliantly.. such concise thoughts.
Scientology is all about creating a "fake self", which can be used to "get a product".
Explains my natural salesmanship..
After buying into all this, it's easy to lose "who you really are", or even lose the concept of a "real" self.
..yes, it often feels as though I have been un-tethered. Less and less lately, though. I have conversations with my best friend who was also raised inside and has nothing to do with it at this point, and I know we share feelings of dissociation.
 

JeansAndRice

Active member
Well, the "curious" part of using your emotions as a tool that I discovered is that it is actually 3 separate things:
  • A reflex-reaction induced through cult conditioning
  • A mindset
  • A skill
You get get rid of the first one with ease, once you leave the cult. Getting rid of the second one takes time. You will never get rid of the last one, you will take that skill to your grave. My approach is to make the best of it. Find a job or lifestyle where this sort of things are useful. Not surprisingly, these skills are rare in the big world and there's social functions and jobs where these come in useful.
This is such an interesting breakdown, the reflex through conditioning, the mindset and the skill.
Tbh I feel like because I was so unaware of the extremity of the conditioning until recently, that it didn't fade away as quickly as I would hope. I say this with this example in mind (this example might also just indicate a mindset): the idea of comm-lag in Scn is bad, and indicates a lower tone, or whatever. In my interactions with my partner, who is thoughtful and sometimes slower in his time to respond.. I can see how my frustrations with him have sometimes stemmed from this belief that his "comm-lag" is somehow indicative of underlying motive, or overall awareness? Even though I never consciously had this thought that his comm-lag was "an indication", I can see how my actions and reactions might precipitate from a place of the belief that he was somehow lesser due to being downtone... I feel like it's a reflex-reaction in these scenarios.. hope this doesn't sound like I'm just too cheap to go to a therapist....

That is one of the most pernicious and insidious ideas Hubbard came up with. It is also shared by a lot of other cults where it is attributed to "karma", the "law of attraction" (Which is in Thelema which is where Hubbard got it from when he was just a cultie himself). You can even find it in theist cults, where this is attributed to "if bad things happen to you, then it means God is angry with you".
If bad things happen to you then God IS angry with you... lol
No but seriously. There's a great book called Brightsided that talks about the positive thinking movement, and talks about prosperity gospel. And I see similarities in the "God wants you to be rich" and "God is angry with you if something bad happened" (converse to that is "If you are poor God must have made it so"). It all lends a hand to the justification of being a selfish asshole, basically. It fuels the bootstrap mentality.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
. . .
Yes, it often feels as though I have been un-tethered. Less and less lately, though. I have conversations with my best friend who was also raised inside and has nothing to do with it at this point, and I know we share feelings of dissociation.

Inside the cult, dissociation (aka "Depersonalization Disorder") is an important "ability gained" at many points on the Grade Chart. In fact, it's a big money maker! For one thing, it produces the singular supernatural phenomena most prized by Clears & OTs---Exteriorization!

"Depersonalization disorder is marked by periods of feeling disconnected or detached from one's body and thoughts (depersonalization). The disorder is sometimes described as feeling like you are observing yourself from outside your body or like being in a dream." (link)
Here's another link to this fascinating information:

Symptoms
Symptoms and signs of dissociative disorders include:
  • Significant memory loss of specific times, people and events
  • Out-of-body experiences, such as feeling as though you are watching a movie of yourself
    • Mental health problems such as depression, anxiety and thoughts of suicide
    • A sense of detachment from your emotions, or emotional numbness
    • A lack of a sense of self-identity
.
CONCLUSION: It's actually a great benefit after Scientology to experience Dissociation Disorder, because one can then experience the miraculous benefits of exteriorization without having to pay for an Exteriorization Rundown.
.
 
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Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
Inside the cult, dissociation (aka "Depersonalization Disorder") is an important "ability gained" at many points on the Grade Chart. In fact, it's a big money maker! For one thing, it produces the singular supernatural phenomena most prized by Clears & OTs---Exteriorization!

"Depersonalization disorder is marked by periods of feeling disconnected or detached from one's body and thoughts (depersonalization). The disorder is sometimes described as feeling like you are observing yourself from outside your body or like being in a dream." (link)
Here's another link to this fascinating information:

Symptoms
Symptoms and signs of dissociative disorders include:
  • Significant memory loss of specific times, people and events
  • Out-of-body experiences, such as feeling as though you are watching a movie of yourself
    • Mental health problems such as depression, anxiety and thoughts of suicide
    • A sense of detachment from your emotions, or emotional numbness
    • A lack of a sense of self-identity
.
CONCLUSION: It's actually a great benefit after Scientology to experience Dissociation Disorder, because one can then experience the miraculous benefits of exteriorization without having to pay for an Exteriorization Rundown.
.
Said another way, Scientology creates insanity, and then convinces you that this is an improvement.
 

JeansAndRice

Active member
Said another way, Scientology creates insanity, and then convinces you that this is an improvement.
... but my pile of shit is called The Bridge To Total Freedom...
 

programmer_guy

True ex-Scientologist
<snip>

For those of you who joined as barely adults, what were the challenges with rediscovering yourself, or your pre-cult personality?

<snip>
I don't think that my personality changed but parts of my worldview changed after many years.

My personality has been a bit of a techy introvert (but not extreme). That did not change during or after.
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
.

Said another way, Scientology creates insanity, and then convinces you that this is an improvement.
.

LOL! Nominated for best post of the month! LOL!

I might be able to give an example of that, which comes right out of that list of SYMPTOMS of Dissociative Disorder that I posted above (LINK).
SYMPTOMS AND SIGNS OF DISSOCIATIVE DISORDER INCLUDE:
  • Significant memory loss of specific times, people and events
  • Out of body experiences, such as feeling as though you are watching a movie of yourself
  • Mental health problems such as depression, anxiety and thoughts of suicide
  • A sense of detachment from your emotions, or emotional numbness
  • A lack of a sense of self-identity

Scientifically we can prove that 100% of all Clears suffer from memory loss. This sudden and shocking amnesia is tragically keyed in the day they attest to Clear, entirely forgetting about the various supernatural powers that Ron said all Clears possess, such as perfect memory.

Wait, i wandered off subject, lol. I am supposed to be looking for Scientology driving you to insanity and then convincing you it was an improvement, LOL. Okay, I swear I'll do better on the next attempt!

:hattip:


.
 
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Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
the idea of comm-lag in Scn is bad, and indicates a lower tone, or whatever. In my interactions with my partner, who is thoughtful and sometimes slower in his time to respond.. I can see how my frustrations with him have sometimes stemmed from this belief that his "comm-lag" is somehow indicative of underlying motive, or overall awareness? Even though I never consciously had this thought that his comm-lag was "an indication", I can see how my actions and reactions might precipitate from a place of the belief that he was somehow lesser due to being downtone... I feel like it's a reflex-reaction in these scenarios..
That's a great example. I haven't thought of it in these terms, because in general I eat fast, talk fast and walk fast (I realized this only once I started going out to lunch with office colelagues and their most common comemnt was: "Why are you in such a rush, slow down!").

I didn't think of it as an example of SO programming, but it probably is.
And that's exactly one of these issues - you can't be sure if its your original inherent personality or just a deliberate part of cult conditioning. Or both. At this point walking fast is so much a natural part of how I live that I don't feel a need to change. Still, could be just SO programming that I fully integrated. :confused:

hope this doesn't sound like I'm just too cheap to go to a therapist....
I've heard both very positive, very negative and "meh" reactions about therapy from ex-members.

Chris Shelton and Leah Remini expressed very positive opinions. Myself I had a "meh" experience (and if I remember correctly Mike Rinder said something similar) - it didn't help much, never learned anything we didn't know before and looking back it wasn't worth the cash for me. For me I cut it quite short because I felt I was not getting anything out of it, the only valuable thing I got was a professional confirmation that I do not have PTSD. I was glad to spend the money on education instead.

Which is not to say that this will be the same for everyone. C.Shelton is very explicit why psychological therapy was amazingly helpful and crucial for him and I have no reason not to believe him.

Probably the answer is simple: Me and Chris were at very different headspaces at the time that each of us left. Doesn't make any one of us better or worse than the other and that doesn't mean any of these ways will be more valid for someone else.
 
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JeansAndRice

Active member
And that's exactly one of these issues - you can't be sure if its your original inherent personality or just a deliberate part of cult conditioning. Or both. At this point walking fast is so much a natural part of how I live that I don't feel a need to change. Still, could be just SO programming that I fully integrated. :confused:
I recently read The Body Keeps The Score.... [it was like therapy] and it helped me identify some parts that are me, and some parts that are Scientology programming. It talks about trauma in the brain, mind and body; I learned A LOT about mental health and conditioning through trauma. And it actually is what helped me come to several conclusions about the effects of the programming on my life (incl the above realization on comm-lag,) and it's lingering effects, which could include PTSD or dissociative disorders, explosive emotions and self harming behavior, among others.

It was a huge a-ha book because I've never really been exposed to psychology that wasn't on the internet, or the words of a psychiatrist. Wow... the veiled is lifted.

I can't afford therapy or anything, but do you think a therapist that specializes in cult and high control groups would be more beneficial for someone coming out of a situation like Scn? Or is the most beneficial just someone with whom you have a good rapport, regardless of specialty?
 

Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
I can't afford therapy or anything, but do you think a therapist that specializes in cult and high control groups would be more beneficial for someone coming out of a situation like Scn? Or is the most beneficial just someone with whom you have a
Somebody with good rapport can read up on cult techniques.
 
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