I don’t understand how anybody could rightfully grasp how FOS ron was but still practice his tech.de-dinging?
I don’t understand how anybody could rightfully grasp how FOS ron was but still practice his tech.de-dinging?
I know exactly what you're saying. I've been involved in trying to deconstruct a game that I just realized was being cemented by a group. The misinformation and the cross copying of emotions strengthens the glue.Group serfacs are a very real thing. Some people called them memes, but online use of the word to mean internet memes of text and image sort of killed that. Anyway, serfacs can exist on any dynamic in this universe. Fixed ideas held by a group mind are difficult for an individual to resist. 1st dynamics are dominated by 3rd dynamics.
I am so glad I was out by '78. Ethics Officers/MAAs are an idiotic idea that have nothing to do with helping people.
You almost have to agree to Not Know just to get your ticket into the human skin. Ding dingOver the years I had formed opinions about just what happens after body death, such as going to heaven (or somewhere else ); reincarnating; returning to a vast pool of spiritual nothingness from which individual souls or spirits emerge . . . By the time I passed 8 decades, I was pleasantly uncertain as to what, if anything, came after dying. I philosophically settled for the idea that there would be either something or nothing. If there was to be something, I’d find out when the time came.
thanks for that. i points to one of the things that i find very interesting when i can hear from old timers or dig through their accounts, that there were some reasons for what started out as conflict between LRH and the mission holders beginning the '70s -- it wasn't all just DM making up convenient accusations later.Yes, there is some truth to this. We didn't get too far with this but I very well remember
I remember bouncing between a few of these. It's a lonely life as there arent' many around after each wipeout. The sad game for me was trying to round up the somnabulent, disembodied before the 'other' guys did. They liked to blank slate and rewrite the scripts. Each being is animating / running something in the millions of archetypes. And often these don't change much. My remote visio is always dim as if operating through a created theta body. There are very few team members around and you're a clumsy solo pilot doing a kinda FEMA mission.Is. Above time tracks his existence persists. Hubbard talked a lot about exteriorizing from the body. There is also exteriorization from the physical universe. There are other universes, including what Hubbard called magic track. From outside of a universe its time track(s) can be seen. Magic track contains multiple pocket universes, including the so-called "between lives area". I prefer the Tibetan name: Bardo. It's much shorter.
IVy = International Viewpoints magazine. A bunch of ex-churchies just like this place.
I remember having a discussion with Phil about how enraged Hubbard was in 1965 when he wrote "Keeping Scientology Working", basically a manifesto ridden with lies, 10 different ways of saying "thou shalt take no other god but me" intended to engineer a subliminal association with the ten commandments (my view, not necessarily exactly Phil's). Several of Hubbard's most valuable contributors were getting out from under his autocratic thumb to plant their own flags and taking customers with them. "KSW"'s message was that only Hubbard's brew could be safely imbibed, everybody had to stick purely to him and absolutely reject all other brands. Not uncoincidentally, 1965 was also when Hubbard twisted John McMasters' research to invent "PTS-SP" dogma to label all those who left to establish their own ways of practice "SP's" and their adherents "PTS".He's so from the 50s and 60s.
Phil said that 1965 was the year Scientology got secretive and serious. It must've been the earlier similar for 1982?
There's a Buddhist sutta in the Pali language which describes how Gotamo woke up. At one stage he saw all of his past lives; then he next saw all the archetypes and scripts (in scientologese: Terminals) of everyone else.I remember bouncing between a few of these. It's a lonely life as there arent' many around after each wipeout. The sad game for me was trying to round up the somnabulent, disembodied before the 'other' guys did. They liked to blank slate and rewrite the scripts. Each being is animating / running something in the millions of archetypes.
OK. I went back and reread it. Thanks. It just sounded like something Phil Spickler would write and my mind just took off with it, by mistake.Phil didn’t write the faux obit. It says the person’s name at the top. He just posted on his blog.
maybe the original audience in the '50s, who from what i can tell were more often around Hubbard's age. but by the mid '60s was it mostly young baby boomers -- 2 generations younger -- who as 'seekers' might have read newer works like Siddhartha or Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, but who could easily be sold things like recycled late 19th century New Thought and Theosophy as new ideas without recognizing the actual, original sources?But I think back then, folks were less super identified with the physical. Much of Hubbards audience was weaned on Blavatsky.
edit: mark and janis were just talking about this from a question in their last video. they think that because LRH was being given bad/incorrect info, that led to the massacre. idk but Ron Jr. said this was LRH's SOP in the 50's.Congratulations on your handling of these franchise holders. As far as I’m concerned you can get rid of all of them. We don’t need them!
I knew Nate peripherally when I audited as paid noncontracted staff at CCNY, and his wife Laurie was the ED and my PC. Didn't know the history. I knew Nate's late, estranged (ex-Scn) brother Amos better, nice guy, spoke of Nate, who disconnected from him, as "my mother's son" with a wry smile. Phil and I were good friends, spent time together somewhat regularly before I moved out of Cali in 2016, and we stayed in touch by email until Julie informed me that he had passed.this email definitely belongs in the phil thread!
Farewell to ASHO (a response to Alan Walter)
by Phil Spickler
18 Aug 99
Dear Alan,
In response to your request for information regarding the exodus of numerous tech terminals from ASHO that I think took place in the late summer or early fall of 1969, I hereby present the following recalls.
I think it was sometime early in 1969 that the chilling information arrived at ASHO stating that in the future, the then-College of Scientology in Los Angeles was to become a Sea Organization organization. Prior status of that organization known as ASHO was that of a non-Sea Organization org that was in the business of delivering, on the training side, everything up through Class VI, the Briefing Course and Class VII, and on the auditing side of the Grade Chart everything up through Grade VI and the Solo Course.
And it was a pretty fun place, as you know, since your missions, as feeder groups, had a lot to do with making it the upstat place that it was. Back to the story:
Along with the news that ASHO was to become a Sea Organization org, with all the paramilitary uniforms and that whole schtick, came an offer to the existing ASHO staff which went something like this: We'd love to have you join the Sea Org when the conversion occurs, but if you don't,you may leave, and we wish you well in whatever you're going to do next. Sounded pretty friendly at the time. And some of us really didn't think that what Jehovah Hubbard really meant in that message was, "I need you! Stay where you are and join the Sea Org, or I'll kill you." More on the killing later.
(more in link)
Now the original ethics order was signed by none other than Nate Jessup, who at that time was Commodore Staff IV, which on the Org Board made him grand master of tech worldwide. It wasn't until around 1975, having become good buddies with Artie Maren, then-director of PR for the US Guardian's Office, and having performed a rather noble and non-harmful act on behalf of that group, that Artie, in a fit of friendship, showed me the handwritten by LRH dispatch that ordered the execution of Malcolm Cheminais and Phil Spickler and ordered the Guardian's Office to issue it under Nate Jessup, C/S IV's, name. (my bold)
thanks for this.I think it was sometime early in 1969 that the chilling information arrived at ASHO stating that in the future, the then-College of Scientology in Los Angeles was to become a Sea Organization organization.
Early 69? No the news of ASHO's conversion to a Sea Org org came in late 68. This was soon after the Sea Org came in and basically fired everyone at the LA Org. The excuse I heard was that the LA Org staff were "hippies". Yes they were, and they provided a safe environment for PCs like myself. Yes I was there in late 68. So I was on lines at LA Org, then the Sea Organisms came in and destroyed LA Org. My response was to vote with my feet and I went on lines at ASHO instead to avoid the suppressive Sea Organisms. Then ASHO was destroyed next. I again voted with my feet and went on lines at the Seattle Org. When that went suppressive too (Dorothy Broaded can bite me) I saw there was no place to avoid these ubermilitant suppressives and my relations with scientology orgs became guarded, withholdy and cautiously hostile. The Sea Org is locked into terrible whole track dramatizations IMO.this email definitely belongs in the phil thread!
Farewell to ASHO (a response to Alan Walter)
by Phil Spickler
18 Aug 99
Dear Alan,
In response to your request for information regarding the exodus of numerous tech terminals from ASHO that I think took place in the late summer or early fall of 1969, I hereby present the following recalls.
I think it was sometime early in 1969 that the chilling information arrived at ASHO stating that in the future, the then-College of Scientology in Los Angeles was to become a Sea Organization organization. Prior status of that organization known as ASHO was that of a non-Sea Organization org that was in the business of delivering, on the training side, everything up through Class VI, the Briefing Course and Class VII, and on the auditing side of the Grade Chart everything up through Grade VI and the Solo Course.
And it was a pretty fun place, as you know, since your missions, as feeder groups, had a lot to do with making it the upstat place that it was. Back to the story:
Along with the news that ASHO was to become a Sea Organization org, with all the paramilitary uniforms and that whole schtick, came an offer to the existing ASHO staff which went something like this: We'd love to have you join the Sea Org when the conversion occurs, but if you don't,you may leave, and we wish you well in whatever you're going to do next. Sounded pretty friendly at the time. And some of us really didn't think that what Jehovah Hubbard really meant in that message was, "I need you! Stay where you are and join the Sea Org, or I'll kill you." More on the killing later.
(more in link)
Now the original ethics order was signed by none other than Nate Jessup, who at that time was Commodore Staff IV, which on the Org Board made him grand master of tech worldwide. It wasn't until around 1975, having become good buddies with Artie Maren, then-director of PR for the US Guardian's Office, and having performed a rather noble and non-harmful act on behalf of that group, that Artie, in a fit of friendship, showed me the handwritten by LRH dispatch that ordered the execution of Malcolm Cheminais and Phil Spickler and ordered the Guardian's Office to issue it under Nate Jessup, C/S IV's, name. (my bold)
---------------------------
now i'm wondering... was this the first time he mentioned this threat to their lives? surely he told malcolm when he found out in 1975. but afaik, malcolm stayed in until they all got cut loose in 1982. the newsletters show malcolm and phillida's wedding in the latter part of the 70's. officiated by her former BIL, peter rundberg. and mimi was still in well into the 80's!
They were what Hubbard wanted them to be, what Hubbard made them. He sought the high military command status he never could accomp-lish in the real world.Early 69? No the news of ASHO's conversion to a Sea Org org came in late 68. This was soon after the Sea Org came in and basically fired everyone at the LA Org. The excuse I heard was that the LA Org staff were "hippies". Yes they were, and they provided a safe environment for PCs like myself. Yes I was there in late 68. So I was on lines at LA Org, then the Sea Organisms came in and destroyed LA Org. My response was to vote with my feet and I went on lines at ASHO instead to avoid the suppressive Sea Organisms. Then ASHO was destroyed next. I again voted with my feet and went on lines at the Seattle Org. When that went suppressive too (Dorothy Broaded can bite me) I saw there was no place to avoid these ubermilitant suppressives and my relations with scientology orgs became guarded, withholdy and cautiously hostile. The Sea Org is locked into terrible whole track dramatizations IMO.
Ed