People who go nuts after having been declared a Suppressive Person

onceuponatime

Well-known member
Hey Pineapple, nice post! I was off ESMB 2 for awhile, probably for the best for me and everyone!

When I got in around 1990, the message was very clear - No drugs, and previous psych treatment was "right out," as a Python would say.

I bought the company line on both circumstances.

I saw recipients of shock treatment and how they had seemingly been affected, although I hadn't known them before so really didn't know the effects of the treatment vs what they were like before. The ones that I knew had to petition, and do training until their checksheets were raw and red. never saw anyone from that group make it.

I was supervising when a new student called me over for a question. With a glazed look on her face, she asked me what scn thought of librium, since she was currently on it. My first thought was "Div 6 dropped the ball once again!" and routed her to ethics and never saw her again.

I was apprenticing a new supervisor. She came to me on a busy night and said "I just did 2wc with that div6 student, and he crack just before course." We were always trying to find the why on no case change, etc., and it was so easy to find.

It seems there are more excuses for tech failure than weeds in my pasture.

I wonder why that would be????

Oh, and did anyone ever, ever get Remedy A or Remedy B???

The book of case remedies was for another religion, wasn't it?
There are always a million reasons why the tech didn't work, and it's never the tech doesn't work, the auditor (or PC) did something wrong.

I have seen Remedy A & B done, not that common but I have heard of it happening. Many of the remedies in book of case remedies are standard handlings and get used often, but when a tech person is trying to debug a PC they'll look to HCOBs. My understanding is that the book of case remedies is basically a compilation, auditors and C/Ses would look to the actual reference.
 

pineapple

知道的人不说,和说的人不知道。
Freudian psychoanalysis is considered outdated now. That does not mean it is entirely ineffective or wrong, it just means we evolved further from it and developed more modern, more accurate methods. ("Better" is the enemy of "good").

Though despite it being "outdated", psychoanalysis still has some value and can still help people. Heck, even scientology's even more outdated "regression-therapy-like" auditing can help some people.
Considered outdated by whom? Certainly not by the people who are still practicing it.

I'm suspicious of claims that "we evolved further." I don't wanna sound like a cranky old man, but "more modern" is not necessarily better.

Yes, for some conditions and some people, other forms of therapy are better. If you're trying to overcome a phobia, for instance, you don't necessarily want to spend several years rehashing your childhood and your feelings toward your parents.

As for scn's regression-therapy-like auditing (dianetics), I've had both that and psychoanalysis, and dianetics is the tinker-toy version.
 

lotus

Pfizer DNA biotech frog
i think it can be seen as a narcissistic set up to get people to accept, and blame themselves for, being abused. in that way it's rather like the worst of abusive initimate or domestic relationships.
Yep
Exactly the mindset and the culture of victimization ( especially with the outspoken scapegoats) Shaming them by convincing them they "pulled it in" (narcissistic abuse) and taking out them any drop of power (feeling helplessness and devastated)

The perfect combination to purposely and successfully fabricate , a deep, profoundly traumatized person ( relationship traumas being the most difficult ones to identify and heal) ; which makes the perfect slaves, expecting their regular dose of abuse like addicts. 🥴
 

Karakorum

A million filthy losers for every clean winner
Considered outdated by whom? Certainly not by the people who are still practicing it.
I'd say the broad scientific consensus within psychology is that Freudian psychoanalysis is outdated and that it evolved into much more complex and accurate forms of therapy later on: CBT, gestalt, modern psychodynamic models etc. Classic freudian psychoanalysis is mostly taught as "history of psychology".

There are some who practice it in the classic form, but that is a tiny minority.


Again: that doesn't mean it was all wrong or that it can't help people even in its classic form. Just that psychology evolved a lot since.

Yes, for some conditions and some people, other forms of therapy are better. If you're trying to overcome a phobia, for instance, you don't necessarily want to spend several years rehashing your childhood and your feelings toward your parents.
Exactly. That is a great example of how psychology evolved: The belief at Freud's level was that all psychological problems originate either from childhood issues, or from sexual repression. Right now we know that only a minority of disorders have such origins. For example Freud's approach is pretty much useless when dealing with PTSD in soldiers or first responders, because it focuses on the distant past while PTSD doesn't work like that. We also now know that many mental issues have a genetic origin or a genetic component - schizophrenia and depression for example.

Freud couldn't have know any of that and we have to hand it to him that he built his theory from scratch, he had almost no previous research to use. We are all partially standing on his shoulders, but we have also learned a lot more since his days.
 
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Hatshepsut

Well-known member
Yep
Exactly the mindset and the culture of victimization ( especially with the outspoken scapegoats) Shaming them by convincing them they "pulled it in" (narcissistic abuse) and taking out them any drop of power (feeling helplessness and devastated)

The perfect combination to purposely and successfully fabricate , a deep, profoundly traumatized person ( relationship traumas being the most difficult ones to identify and heal) ; which makes the perfect slaves, expecting their regular dose of abuse like addicts. 🥴
I love Dr. Les Carter. He's a healer and knows where the damage hides.

 

Hatshepsut

Well-known member
There are always a million reasons why the tech didn't work, and it's never the tech doesn't work, the auditor (or PC) did something wrong.

I have seen Remedy A & B done, not that common but I have heard of it happening. Many of the remedies in book of case remedies are standard handlings and get used often, but when a tech person is trying to debug a PC they'll look to HCOBs. My understanding is that the book of case remedies is basically a compilation, auditors and C/Ses would look to the actual reference.
I found the book of case remedies valuable. The basic is that we have beings and their purposes which get thwarted. The original PTS rundown, handling withholds and overts, can't haves and enforced haves, and problems, hit the GPMs. Counter-intention hides in many guises and a person got extracted enough to SEE where the suppression was coming from.

I found it interesting that narcissistic abuse is attributed to NOT being connected to an authentic self outside the continuum. They're maybe an assemblage of parts which must remain glued together..... or feel they're going nuts.

 

pineapple

知道的人不说,和说的人不知道。
I'd say the broad scientific consensus within psychology is that Freudian psychoanalysis is outdated and that it evolved into much more complex and accurate forms of therapy later on: CBT, gestalt, modern psychodynamic models etc. Classic freudian psychoanalysis is mostly taught as "history of psychology".

There are some who practice it in the classic form, but that is a tiny minority.


Again: that doesn't mean it was all wrong or that it can't help people even in its classic form. Just that psychology evolved a lot since.


Exactly. That is a great example of how psychology evolved: The belief at Freud's level was that all psychological problems originate either from childhood issues, or from sexual repression. Right now we know that only a minority of disorders have such origins. For example Freud's approach is pretty much useless when dealing with PTSD in soldiers or first responders, because it focuses on the distant past while PTSD doesn't work like that. We also now know that many mental issues have a genetic origin or a genetic component - schizophrenia and depression for example.

Freud couldn't have know any of that and we have to hand it to him that he built his theory from scratch, he had almost no previous research to use. We are all partially standing on his shoulders, but we have also learned a lot more since his days.
May I ask if you've had any therapy yourself since leaving scn, or is that getting too personal?
 

Karakorum

A million filthy losers for every clean winner
May I ask if you've had any therapy yourself since leaving scn, or is that getting too personal?
I did have, but the psychologist had mostly experience with former moonies and former jehova's witnesses. Her knowledge of how scientology operates was limited and I felt like she learned more from me than vice versa. ]

In the end, it did not feel like I was getting anything out of it and I myself felt like I'd rather spend the money on education and spend my time integrating myself to the workforce and normal life.

Which is not to say that I feel like psychology is useless for former members. I read and saw videos of many former scn public and SO members say that psychotherapy saved their life. I have no reason to doubt them.

However my own experience was different, because I pretty much deprogrammed-myself while still in the SO. My problems after leaving the SO were not psychological in nature, they were simple struggles to find a job and come to grips with that fact that pretty much everyone I ever knew disconnected from me.
 

pineapple

知道的人不说,和说的人不知道。
It's true that psychoanalysis is no longer the therapy du jour that it was in, say, the 50's or 60's. But it's still doing pretty well, at least in the US. I came across this list of psychoanalytic institutes in the United States. There are quite a lot of them. The one where I got my therapy in the 80's (around since the 40's) is on the list.

I didn't go into therapy primarily to deprogram myself from scn. (I was on staff for 6 years, but never in SO, so I don't think I needed it as much.) I'd already been out for several years by that time, had moved from Hawaii back to NY, and could actually forget about it for long periods of time. There was no internet then, and no ex- community I was aware of.

I think what I wanted was to address the things I thought were gonna get addressed in scn, but never did, and it did a good job of that. Sort of Life Repair, but for real this time.
 
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Karakorum

A million filthy losers for every clean winner
I think what I wanted was to address the things I thought were gonna get addressed in scn, but never did, and it did a good job of that. Sort of Life Repair, but for real this time.
I think that's one of the key differences between 1st and 2nd gens.

My challenge was that I did not have the necessary education to get a decent job and that I had just one single relative that would let me crash on their couch (and they wanted me to move out as soon as possible). Both big factors in why I eventually left the US.
 

La La Lou Lou

Well-known member
I think that's one of the key differences between 1st and 2nd gens.

My challenge was that I did not have the necessary education to get a decent job and that I had just one single relative that would let me crash on their couch (and they wanted me to move out as soon as possible). Both big factors in why I eventually left the US.
Those first generationers, who like me got in just after school, didn't fare much better. I left the cult with no training that had could be used in the real world, but I had experience in admin styles from the mid sixties that no one could even remember. No one in the real world did mimeo, or metal address plates or telex, it was like working in a time warp. I could do washing up and bed making, I could dig trenches, I could push wheel barrows full of mud across wet clay, but I wasn't very good at it. But I had a piece of paper to say that I was continuously committing overts, I had something to say that I was evil, that people around me would get sick just by being near me.

I didn't cave in, I didn't start blithering, I started to see, better than before, how unjust and insane the cult actually was. It helped me open my eyes. Having the door slammed in my face was the best gift I ever got from the cult. I feel like writing a success story!
 

pineapple

知道的人不说,和说的人不知道。
I think that's one of the key differences between 1st and 2nd gens.

My challenge was that I did not have the necessary education to get a decent job and that I had just one single relative that would let me crash on their couch (and they wanted me to move out as soon as possible). Both big factors in why I eventually left the US.
Yeah, I guess your situation was much tougher. At least I'd had some previous experience being a wog.

How did leaving the US make your situation better? I don't get that part.
 

Karakorum

A million filthy losers for every clean winner
How did leaving the US make your situation better? I don't get that part.
US is better to work in if you already have a stable situation to begin with. But if you wanna start from scratch, Europe is better.

Poland has far cheaper college and the % of university seats that are up for a state scholarship is significantly higher than in America. About 40% of students here at Warsaw U. received free university education. So it was possible for me to pay for my 1st semester and then I qualified for a scholarship. It would be insanely harder in the US and also much, much more expensive for even that 1st semester.

Also, food and rent here is cheaper.
 

Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
US is better to work in if you already have a stable situation to begin with. But if you wanna start from scratch, Europe is better.

Poland has far cheaper college and the % of university seats that are up for a state scholarship is significantly higher than in America. About 40% of students here at Warsaw U. received free university education. So it was possible for me to pay for my 1st semester and then I qualified for a scholarship. It would be insanely harder in the US and also much, much more expensive for even that 1st semester.

Also, food and rent here is cheaper.
Did you already know the language? Or is Poland easy to live in if you only know English?
 

Pepin

Active member
US is better to work in if you already have a stable situation to begin with. But if you wanna start from scratch, Europe is better.

Poland has far cheaper college and the % of university seats that are up for a state scholarship is significantly higher than in America. About 40% of students here at Warsaw U. received free university education. So it was possible for me to pay for my 1st semester and then I qualified for a scholarship. It would be insanely harder in the US and also much, much more expensive for even that 1st semester.

Also, food and rent here is cheaper.
Idk, I got a full ride scholarship to Berkeley. I'm a mediocre student
 

Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
Idk, I got a full ride scholarship to Berkeley. I'm a mediocre student
I got a full-ride scholarship. I was a decent student with very high SATs, but the big factor was we were poor.
 

Karakorum

A million filthy losers for every clean winner
Did you already know the language? Or is Poland easy to live in if you only know English?
I already knew Polish, Russian and a third language I will not disclose.
 

Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
I already knew Polish, Russian and a third language I will not disclose.
Plus English. I can see you being successful in European business.
 

Karakorum

A million filthy losers for every clean winner
Plus English. I can see you being successful in European business.
Scn's study technology didn't help me any. Funny enough, MAA and INV experience helped me a lot. All-nighters and major corporate customers who start video-calls by spewing expletives at you? Almost nobody in the financial sector has any experience in that, save former scientologists.
 
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