Overheard in the Freezone

pineapple

On the Dole
Would "making the world a better place" be a big thing in the OTO? I'm not under that impression, but admittedly I'm not an ex-OTO cultist.

So assuming this is written just after Hubbard broke away from Parsons, would this mean he still believed in Thelema?

That's a curious way to look at it, as probably subconsciously I had assumed Hubbard was on top of the game and making a fool out of both Crowley and Parsons. But perhaps we are overestimating him? Maybe this would-be game maker in 1946... was actually just another cultie roped into Thelema and still believing in that cult's dogmas?

Could the "affirmations" be a product of Hubbard at a time when he did not yet develop a post-cult-self?

I've never before considered Hubbard as a ex-thelemite cult survivor. But perhaps we should? :questions:
"Making the world a better place" can mean different things to different people, depending on their point of view.

After Hubbard broke away from Parsons (and stole Parsons' life savings), did he still believe in Thelema, or at least his own interpretation of it? Yes, quite possibly.

"Hubbard: Yes. The Antichrist. Alestair Crowley thought of himself as such. And when Crowley died in 1947, my father then decided that he should wear the cloak of the beast and become the most powerful being in the universe."

Penthouse interview with L. Ron Hubbard Jr. (Nibs), 1983:

Note in the above interview Nibs says that his father first read Crowley's Book of the Law at age 16, in other words his acquaintance with Crowley's ideas did not begin with Parsons.
 
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Lee #28

Well-known member
"Making the world a better place" can mean different things to different people, depending on their point of view.

After Hubbard broke away from Parsons (and stole Parsons' life savings), did he still believe in Thelema, or at least his own understanding of it? Quite possibly.

"Hubbard: Yes. The Antichrist. Alestair Crowley thought of himself as such. And when Crowley died in 1947, my father then decided that he should wear the cloak of the beast and become the most powerful being in the universe."

Penthouse interview with L. Ron Hubbard Jr. (Nibs), 1983:

"Making the world a better place...."

Became:

" A world without War, Criminality and Insanity...." or something like that...

Sure....who wouldn't want that. ( especially a bright eyed young person starting out in life...looking for something to set to work on )

IMO....this was one of the hooks by which Hubbard "roped in the rubes"......and had them pay up for Courses....or give up their lives and work for free for him.

The talk of brainwashing was countered with the person was already brainwashed....Auditing was "Un-Brainwashing..."
 
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PirateAndBum

Administrator
Staff member
" A world without War, Criminality and Insanity...." or something like that...
Well, what he forgot to mention was that it would be a world without those things AND that everyone would be his-self's slaves. Slaves don't war, they don't do anything the master doesn't want. They obey him.
 

PirateAndBum

Administrator
Staff member
This isn't a "Overheard in the freezone", but one of the Source quotes.

“I found out that it makes it tremendously easier to run the bank and that on a very few PCs you will be unable to run the bank unless you get an early engramic incident out of the road. And I also found out that if you can run the overt engram that relates to these GPMs just as an engram, that a fantastic amount of charge will come off the implants themselves, naturally, and therefore they run like-very much like hot butter. I had a little bulletin for you. Found a datum here you might be interested in. That particular outfit was down toward the center of this particular galaxy and was founded at 52 trillion, 863 billion, 10 million, 654 thousand, 79 years (52,863,010,654,079), and I can’t give you a much closer than that, because when place get founded is, more or less becomes part of their lies. But it was founded at that time, and it was destroyed on the date 38 trillion, 932 billion, 690 million, 862 thousand, 933 years ago (38,932,690,862,933), by the 79th wing of the 43rd battle squadron of the galactic fleet. It was not the, part of the galaxy. It was a wildcat activity sitting there. They used to drag Magellanic Clouds out of the center hub of the galaxy, let them follow the lines of force and just let them come over a system. Then when they got around to it, they’d send planes in with speakers, and so forth, and give the place the business. But the place very often was totally caved in for thousands of years by these Magellanic radioactive clouds which would just engulf the particular system. You got the idea? I just give you that in brief, just as a matter of interest, because these dates we’re getting are accurate. I have now compared them up the track and squared them around. These are the dates.” — L. Ron Hubbard, May 16, 1963
Amazing! The 79th wing of the 43rd battle squadron of the galactic fleet - except they were not part of this guh-lax-ie!

Wow, just wow Ron!

And theses "wildcats" just happened to keep their operation going for 13 trillion years and nobody did nuttin! Jaw-dropping!

Good to know that those dates are accurate. I would have wondered if you hadn't told me so.

Makes me cringe in a most uncomfortable way that I bought this hook line and sinker back when I listened to the SHSBC lectures.
 

PirateAndBum

Administrator
Staff member
“Fifth day on OT IX. There is like a ‘learning experience’ of life in the MEST. Before when I made a postulate, I don’t know how it happened, if it happened at all. I realize now that I was much less conscious. Now I make a postulate and I feel the static energy blossom, as if I am aligning the MEST to get my postulate. It is a conscious feeling. It might be right in my Universe, but no, the thing is happening in the MEST.”
It might also be that you are delusional cause...
 

Karakorum

The most ethical being in the gullibxy
"Making the world a better place" can mean different things to different people, depending on their point of view.

After Hubbard broke away from Parsons (and stole Parsons' life savings), did he still believe in Thelema, or at least his own interpretation of it? Yes, quite possibly.

"Hubbard: Yes. The Antichrist. Alestair Crowley thought of himself as such. And when Crowley died in 1947, my father then decided that he should wear the cloak of the beast and become the most powerful being in the universe."

Penthouse interview with L. Ron Hubbard Jr. (Nibs), 1983:

Note in the above interview Nibs says that his father first read Crowley's Book of the Law at age 16, in other words his acquaintance with Crowley's ideas did not begin with Parsons.
I dunno, maybe its just me projecting my own experiences onto Hubbard. But his pre-dianetics writings did not make much sense to me when I looked at it from the "L.Ron Hubbard the cult guru and game-maker" angle.
I just recently after seeing Chris Shelton interview an actual OTO member realized that perhaps Hubbard really was roped into the Thelema cult. Once I started looking at it from a "Hubbard, the cult-survivor and independent-Thelemite" angle, all of it started making far more sense.
Its as if Hubbard decided to take all the things he found valuable in Thelema and dump the rest. Then he created dianetics and Scientology using these Thelema parts and other information he found from other sources.

But I do feel Hubbard went through a phase of being an ex-cult member before going on to start his own cult. Weird and scary.
 
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PirateAndBum

Administrator
Staff member
“The thirteen senators are alive and well today. Having escaped the effects of the Big Bang — they have resurfaced and disappeared many times throughout this universe’s almost endless history — affecting civilizations to a greater or lesser degree. So me seeing Thoth was correct — one of the senators. The bird-like deity. That is why I am allowed to understand this. Did I receive any help, or it is only my thetan who was the complete cause?”
:screwy:

My thetan? This moron doesn't even understand the most basic fundamental of scn.
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
:screwy:

My thetan? This moron doesn't even understand the most basic fundamental of scn.
For some stupid reason my head starts going to other places when I read up on stuff like this.

Am I the only one who starts mixing in his writing with the lyrics to the milkshake song?

"My thetan brings all the boys to the yard
And they're like, it's better than yours
Damn right it's better than yours
I can teach you, but I'm not at cause "

I think it's the birds connection.
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
Post-affirmations . . .
Post-bigamous marriage to Sara, child Alexis, and a loud contentious divorce . . .
Post-bankruptcy of the first Dianetic Foundation . . .
Ron gets bailed out by Purcell and flees to Wichita . . .

From Barbara Kaye, his then lover -- re: Wichita mid-1951 -- states he was pretty bad off:

I was shocked by his appearance in Wichita. He had visibly deteriorated, both physically and emotionally. He was extremely unkempt, he lived like a street person. He was extremely depressed, talked in a monotone, always on the verge of tears.​
. . .​
When he went off with Alexis he came by the mansion at Hoover. I was there working and he was in a depression. I could see the way he walked - his head down, dragging his feet.​

However, by some miracle of research, or vivid imagination, he'd figured out the secrets of the universe
during the next year and . . .

By December 1952, he had traveled to or seen many other universes (PDC Lecture 6):
I know of three frames positively outside this universe. There’s a universe outside this universe and there’s a universe outside that and its set of universes, and there’s a universe outside that universe. And I know the one beyond that. And it’s not necess... they’re not necessarily getting thinner or more unsubstantial but they don’t run according to the same laws. E equals MC squared won’t work in ‘em. That is not a native characteristic of energy. It just happens to be.​

That might tell you all you need to know. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
Post-affirmations . . .
Post-bigamous marriage to Sara, child Alexis, and a loud contentious divorce . . .
Post-bankruptcy of the first Dianetic Foundation . . .
Ron gets bailed out by Purcell and flees to Wichita . . .

From Barbara Kaye, his then lover -- re: Wichita mid-1951 -- states he was pretty bad off:

I was shocked by his appearance in Wichita. He had visibly deteriorated, both physically and emotionally. He was extremely unkempt, he lived like a street person. He was extremely depressed, talked in a monotone, always on the verge of tears.​
. . .​
When he went off with Alexis he came by the mansion at Hoover. I was there working and he was in a depression. I could see the way he walked - his head down, dragging his feet.​

However, by some miracle of research, or vivid imagination, he'd figured out the secrets of the universe
during the next year and . . .

By December 1952, he had traveled to or seen many other universes (PDC Lecture 6):
I know of three frames positively outside this universe. There’s a universe outside this universe and there’s a universe outside that and its set of universes, and there’s a universe outside that universe. And I know the one beyond that. And it’s not necess... they’re not necessarily getting thinner or more unsubstantial but they don’t run according to the same laws. E equals MC squared won’t work in ‘em. That is not a native characteristic of energy. It just happens to be.​

That might tell you all you need to know. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

CONCLUSION: So, he had a psychotic break and instead of committing suicide, he suddenly realized it was more fun and profitable to destroy others instead.


HUBBARD
(in his darkest moment---thinking to himself)
To be or not to be, that is the question!
Should I shall I kill myself? I wonder if someone
would build me an electronic device so I could
standardly self-electrocute. Or should I make others
suffer as I have suffered and at least get all their money
and try to enjoy myself a little as the savior of the universe.
That kinda feels good to me. I'm dead broke but I probably
could sell my fortune-telling crystal ball* and pick up a priest's
collar and a big crucifix at a thrift store. That might work. Then
I could start a religion and I'm pretty sure that people are stupid
enough to believe whatever I tell them, if I only act like I am totally
certain and---oh wait---and I can tell them I am a war hero and a
doctor and an engineer and a nuclear physicist and the reincarnated
Buddha. That definitely could work. This idea is feeling damn good that I
actually don't have to kill myself. And, hey, if this whole hoax doesn't work,
I can always ask someone later to build me that electrocution thing.

- - -
* In the early days Hubbard made money by pretending to be a "swami". See various references including the WIKI article on "Hubbard and Hypnosis" (excerpt below):

Hubbard's experience with hypnosis
Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard was known to his associates in the late 1940s as a talented hypnotist.[1] During this period, he worked in Hollywood posing as a swami.[2] "
* (Secondary Source): From the bestselling book "Going Clear" by Robert Wright (excerpt below):

"I went right down in the middle of Hollywood. I rented an office, got a hold of a nurse, wrapped a towel around my head and became a swami."
.
-
 
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pineapple

On the Dole
I dunno, maybe its just me projecting my own experiences onto Hubbard. But his pre-dianetics writings did not make much sense to me when I looked at it from the "L.Ron Hubbard the cult guru and game-maker" angle.
I just recently after seeing Chris Shelton interview an actual OTO member realized that perhaps Hubbard really was roped into the Thelema cult. Once I started looking at it from a "Hubbard, the cult-survivor and independent-Thelemite" angle, all of it started making far more sense.
Its as if Hubbard decided to take all the things he found valuable in Thelema and dump the rest. Then he created dianetics and Scientology using these Thelema parts and other information he found from other sources.

But I do feel Hubbard went through a phase of being an ex-cult member before going on to start his own cult. Weird and scary.
I don't see any evidence that he was roped into anything. Nor do I see him as an "ex-cult member."

He may have read Crowley's The Book of the Law when he was 16. (Of course, just because he told Nibs that doesn't necessarily mean it was true. As we know, LRH Snr. was a chronic liar.)

He lived with Parsons for a few months and took part in magical rituals. There's no evidence he was "roped into" anything here. He did it willingly, in fact Parsons felt he showed a great talent for Magick and described him to Crowley in glowing terms.

He talked Parsons into a business deal and absconded with Parsons' life savings and his former mistress. Far from being victimized as a "cult member" -- an inaccurate characterization -- LRH was the victimizer.

Thelema appealed to LRH because it bolstered his view of himself as a superman who could do whatever he wanted without moral restraint, "an adept who cannot accumulate any more karma" as he said in the Affirmations.

"21. We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world."
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
I just recently... realized that perhaps Hubbard really was roped into the Thelema cult. Once I started looking at it from a "Hubbard, the cult-survivor and independent-Thelemite" angle, all of it started making far more sense. I do feel Hubbard went through a phase of being an ex-cult member before going on to start his own cult. Weird and scary.

Wow! You are making some huge wholetrack breakthroughs there! LOL

Now that you have discovered that Hubbard is really the victim, I am wondering if you can help me figure out which button to push in order to DELETE everything I have ever posted about him!

I would say that your discovery ranks right up there with the invention of the wheel and fire and engrams! I'd also include in that list the discovery of clay (enabling mankind to do clay demos) and also your other recent discovery that nobody knows if Scientology works---and we can only find out if we ask SCIENTISTS to do scientific studies on it. But they won't, you also discovered, so we can never know if the tech works.

Awesome discoveries! LOL

.

.
 

Karakorum

The most ethical being in the gullibxy
I don't see any evidence that he was roped into anything. Nor do I see him as an "ex-cult member."

He may have read Crowley's The Book of the Law when he was 16. (Of course, just because he told Nibs that doesn't necessarily mean it was true. As we know, LRH Snr. was a chronic liar.)

He lived with Parsons for a few months and took part in magical rituals. There's no evidence he was "roped into" anything here. He did it willingly, in fact Parsons felt he showed a great talent for Magick and described him to Crowley in glowing terms.

He talked Parsons into a business deal and absconded with Parsons' life savings and his former mistress. Far from being victimized as a "cult member" -- an inaccurate characterization -- LRH was the victimizer.

Thelema appealed to LRH because it bolstered his view of himself as a superman who could do whatever he wanted without moral restraint, "an adept who cannot accumulate any more karma" as he said in the Affirmations.

"21. We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world."
Chris Shelton and Marco Visconti (the OTO member) discuss this in the video I linked to above. They take the position that the affirmations were written when Ron was still living with Jack. They interpret it as a "magical journal", which is something Thelema practitioners normally do. Chris and Marco are not sure if the affirmations are real, which would mean Ron really believed in all of this, or if its all an elaborate hoax Ron wrote to impress Jack Parsons. Marco says that the affirmations are actually very much a textbook, well done "magical journal", though he adds that it almost seems too well done.

At this point, I myself think that if it was written in early 1946, then it might have been a hoax to fool Parsons and another of Rons "look how great I am at everything" self-aggrandizing pieces, only this time a "I'm great at magick" one.

However, if it was written after Ron and Jack split, then the only conclusion left would be that the old clam really believed in Thelema at the time, so the affirmations would need to be read as a ex-cultist coming to grips with his own beliefs and experiences. I would tend to think it is the latter, because it has so many self-referential parts: "My eyes are getting better (...) I don't have stomach issues, I just made it up for the military, so it should go away now..." etc.

The fact that Ron was a cult guru in Scientology (and that he cheated Jack out of a GF and some cash) does not necessarily preclude him being a real Thelema cult member at the time.

I think its a problem with how I looked at Hubbard before - I saw him as the cult guru victimizer of the 60s-70s and thus I sort of naturally assumed that he must have been a leader and a con artist back in the 1946. The problem is that looking at the affirmations from that angle, they don't really make that much sense. When we look at them from a "Hubbard the real Thelema cult survivior" angle, they do make much more sense. So this is my position on the matter as of now.
 
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PirateAndBum

Administrator
Staff member
“The local ruling corporeals sit around in their disposable clones in their underground arenas doing figure-figure on who will be the prophesied coming messiah, poor devils. I’m glad you saw this for yourself and on the higher levels of the playing field(s). I can only ask myself, ‘What is your (meaning ‘my’) cause?’ so as not to get into self-defeating contention with those who hold onto non-life and covert goals. Eyes wide open.”
Eyes wide shut might be more accurate
 

pineapple

On the Dole
Chris Shelton and Marco Visconti (the OTO member) discuss this in the video I linked to above. They take the position that the affirmations were written when Ron was still living with Jack. They interpret it as a "magical journal", which is something Thelema practitioners normally do. Chris and Marco are not sure if the affirmations are real, which would mean Ron really believed in all of this, or if its all an elaborate hoax Ron wrote to impress Jack Parsons. Marco says that the affirmations are actually very much a textbook, well done "magical journal", though he adds that it almost seems too well done.

At this point, I myself think that if it was written in early 1946, then it might have been a hoax to fool Parsons and another of Rons "look how great I am at everything" self-aggrandizing pieces, only this time a "I'm great at magick" one.

However, if it was written after Ron and Jack split, then the only conclusion left would be that the old clam really believed in Thelema at the time, so the affirmations would need to be read as a ex-cultist coming to grips with his own beliefs and experiences. I would tend to think it is the latter, because it has so many self-referential parts: "My eyes are getting better (...) I don't have stomach issues, I just made it up for the military, so it should go away now..." etc.

The fact that Ron was a cult guru in Scientology (and that he cheated Jack out of a GF and some cash) does not necessarily preclude him being a real Thelema cult member at the time.

I think its a problem with how I looked at Hubbard before - I saw him as the cult guru victimizer of the 60s-70s and thus I sort of naturally assumed that he must have been a leader and a con artist back in the 1946. The problem is that looking at the affirmations from that angle, they don't really make that much sense. When we look at them from a "Hubbard the real Thelema cult survivior" angle, they do make much more sense. So this is my position on the matter as of now.
I watched that video and my take on it is quite different from yours.

Marco (the ex-OTO guy) says the Affirmations sounds like maybe a magical journal, but it seems to me he's going off the description Chris has just given him. I'm not sure if he's actually read them, or if so how recently.

Neither Marco nor Chris mention that Course 2 of the affirmations contains statements by Hubbard saying that he is hypnotizing himself and doing so to convince himself of certain things. This is a critical point that they are ignoring.

If Hubbard needs to convince himself of the things he mentions, that means he doesn't completely believe them, but wants to make himself believe them. He was trying to pass himself off to Parsons as a magus. Would he have shown Parsons something that would throw doubt on his status as a magus? Far from impressing Parsons, that would make him doubt Hubbard.

And would you have statements in a magical journal that say you're hypnotizing yourself? My guess is no.

As far as Hubbard being a "cult member," the OTO at the time wasn't much of a cult. Marco says today they have perhaps 2000 members, of whom only about 500 are active. In Crowley's time, he says, there were maybe 200 members worldwide.

Crowley was never much of a cult leader, either. Unlike Hubbard, Crowley never raked in the big bucks. His father left him an inheritance which he squandered by the time he was 40, and for the rest of his life he was in straitened financial circumstances. Until he started running short of bread, he didn't even charge for magical instruction. He seems to have had a disdain for money which Hubbard clearly did not share.

I recommend Lawrence Sutin's "Do What Thou Wilt," for info about Crowley.

1590130953219.png

I completely disagree with what you say in your last paragraph:
"I think its a problem with how I looked at Hubbard before - I saw him as the cult guru victimizer of the 60s-70s and thus I sort of naturally assumed that he must have been a leader and a con artist back in the 1946. The problem is that looking at the affirmations from that angle, they don't really make that much sense. When we look at them from a "Hubbard the real Thelema cult survivior" angle, they do make much more sense. So this is my position on the matter as of now."

I think your former assessment of Hubbard as a con artist back in 1946 was correct. I think you should abandon the in my view unsupported "magical diary" hypothesis and look at what Hubbard is saying in Course 2 of the Affirmations: that he is hypnotizing himself to convince himself of certain things. If you look at it that way it makes complete sense.

You seem to want to give Hubbard a break. He doesn't deserve it. He was a con artist in 1946 and remained one for the rest of his life. Thelema gave him a philosophical framework that encouraged him to throw off all moral restraint and go after what he wanted, which was money and power. That, for Hubbard, was his "True Will."
 
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Chuck J.

Ambassador Plenipotentiary from Bupwupistan
........ . . .

By December 1952, he had traveled to or seen many other universes (PDC Lecture 6):
I know of three frames positively outside this universe. There’s a universe outside this universe and there’s a universe outside that and its set of universes, and there’s a universe outside that universe. And I know the one beyond that. And it’s not necess... they’re not necessarily getting thinner or more unsubstantial but they don’t run according to the same laws. E equals MC squared won’t work in ‘em. That is not a native characteristic of energy. It just happens to be.​

That might tell you all you need to know. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That doesn't make any sense.
OK. Can someone draw a picture of this for me?


"I know of three frames positively outside this universe. There’s a universe outside this universe (Ok we're at two universes here so far)

there’s a universe outside that (three so far?)
and its set of universes, (so the first two are considered a set "inside" the third?)


and there’s a universe outside that universe. (four now?)

And I know the one beyond that. (five?)

And it’s not necess... they’re not necessarily getting thinner or more unsubstantial but they don’t run according to the same laws. E equals MC squared won’t work in ‘em. That is not a native characteristic of energy. It just happens to be."


But the first thing he says is: "I know of three frames positively outside this universe"

That would be four total then right?


I have a Hindu cosmology book that says there 32 universes and lays them all out. Hubbard can't even keep 4 or 5 straight?
 
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PirateAndBum

Administrator
Staff member
That doesn't make any sense.
OK. Can some draw a picture of this for me?


"I know of three frames positively outside this universe. There’s a universe outside this universe (Ok we're at two universes here so far)

there’s a universe outside that (three so far?)
and its set of universes, (so the first two are considered a set "inside" the third?)


and there’s a universe outside that universe. (four now?)

And I know the one beyond that. (five?)

And it’s not necess... they’re not necessarily getting thinner or more unsubstantial but they don’t run according to the same laws. E equals MC squared won’t work in ‘em. That is not a native characteristic of energy. It just happens to be."


But the first thing he says is: "I know of three frames positively outside this universe"

That would be four total then right?


I have a Hindu cosmology book that says there 32 universes and lays them all out. Hubbard can't even keep 4 or 5 straight?
He knew jack shit
 

PirateAndBum

Administrator
Staff member
“The problem is that ‘thetans’ are more than ‘single viewpoint in space’ beings. The Time Track of Theta tapes speak of that. Buddhists are more aware of those issues. They must be laughing at us over this ‘Hunt for the Reincarnated LRH.’ In short, they know that there can be several reincarnated LRHs.”
 

PirateAndBum

Administrator
Staff member
“When I see former corporate Scientologists in the free world expressing doubts or outright disagreements with the truth or workability of Scientology – or railing against KSW, the thought immediately comes to mind that the person was failed by the organization somewhere along the line. Either that, or that person is a true SP who is only interested in using the tech to suppress and dominate others.”
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
There is nothing to be confused about here. Your odd view is quite reminiscent of your many posts that take the position that everyone needs to remain confused about whether Scientology tech works, unless scientists do scientific studies and tell us.

Contrarian theories might be nice for arcane academic publications--but they don't help the many people already overwhelmed and struggling with trying to understand Hubbard and his hoax. Matters concerning the con game known as Scientology are not as complex, confusing and unknowable as you portray.

Your efforts would be better spent to help YOURSELF understand the hoax better---rather than trying to convince others that they can't understand it either. Many have figured it out. If you are as confused as you want us to believe--work on it more and eventually YOU might not be so baffled & bamboozled.
@Karakorum, welcome back from your road trip. Hope it was fun. Do you still have @HelluvaHoax!
on ignore, like you mentioned before? He's coming up with some really good comments about
your "Thelma cult survivor" angle.
I've never before considered Hubbard as a ex-thelemite cult survivor. But perhaps we should?
:wow:
I think its a problem with how I looked at Hubbard before - I saw him as the cult guru victimizer of the 60s-70s and thus I sort of naturally assumed that he must have been a leader and a con artist back in the 1946. The problem is that looking at the affirmations from that angle, they don't really make that much sense. When we look at them from a "Hubbard the real Thelema cult survivior" angle, they do make much more sense. So this is my position on the matter as of now.
This is certainly one of the oddest things I've ever heard. And I've read and researched about as much
as anyone here. But I respect your right to hold that view. No one else will see it that way. Ever.

Going down this path, the next thing one could believe is that Hubbard was trying to impress Parsons
so he could succeed in his secret plan to "break up black magic in America" for the Navy. That was the
concocted GO shore story in 1969, which was printed in a major newspaper.

One could then say that Marty Rathbun [or your one-time nemesis on ESMB, Mike Rinder] is a "cult survivor"
and should be looked at differently. Makes much more sense explaining how he behaved. Marty Rathbun
should be accorded a bit of "fast-flow forgiveness," being he was a cult survivor. No, Marty was a showboater,
liar and thug when he got in. Got even worse later, post-SO. His basic personality re-emerged in full view and
control.




Footnote
Unraveling the Hubbard ball of yarn is best done by researching it as an enormous and decades long money laundering
scheme. Money laundering is concealing the origins of money obtained illegally by passing it through a complex labyrinth
of organizations, corporations, off-shore accounts, and secret numbered accounts. By the 1970s, Hubbard personally held
accounts in Switzerland, Luxembourg, and Liechtenstein. Money was transferred from a Liberian shell corporation, the
Religious Research Foundation, through a sequence of banking transfers or specious transactions. Anyone not well versed
in anti-money laundering techniques -- and I am not -- could be easily fooled into believing a whole bunch of other things. :coolwink:

Same with David Miscviage. He's just taken it to a new level . . . to a new zenith. (Three billion and counting.}

Thelma and "post-cult survivor" are just distractions, red herrings in the grand scheme of things. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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