Out Int - Fact or Fiction?

Veda

Well-known member
A 2010 ESMB thread started by Paul Adams. This may be helpful to those Scientologists or ex Scientologists who have been bedeviled by "out int."

Post number 103 contains some material from Aleister Crowley, including a link to chapter 18 of Magick, in Theory and Practice, a book with which Hubbard was very familiar and even recommended (by another title) during the Philadelphia Doctorate Course lectures of 1952.

The Out Int - Fact or Fiction https://www.forum.exscn.net/threads/out-int-%E2%80%94-fact-or-fiction.19156/ thread
 

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
The only time in my life I ever felt as though I was exterior (as described by Hubbard) was 7-8 years prior to my getting involved with Scientology. And not once during my 10 years while in.

But while I was on the RPF in Clearwater I got C/S'ed for the Int Rundown and got auditing on it.

I never came to understand why though as I never felt exterior ever during that period or ever while in Scn. :confused:
 

freethinker

Controversial
The only time in my life I ever felt as though I was exterior (as described by Hubbard) was 7-8 years prior to my getting involved with Scientology. And not once during my 10 years while in.

But while I was on the RPF in Clearwater I got C/S'ed for the Int Rundown and got auditing on it.

I never came to understand why though as I never felt exterior ever during that period or ever while in Scn. :confused:
That was somebody evaluating your case for you.

I had 3 or 4 Int actions. The one that cured it was when I came out of an End of Endless Int session, I went down and did 45 min of TR 0.

Not supposed to but I did and never had a problem again.
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
The only time in my life I ever felt as though I was exterior (as described by Hubbard) was 7-8 years prior to my getting involved with Scientology. And not once during my 10 years while in.

But while I was on the RPF in Clearwater I got C/S'ed for the Int Rundown and got auditing on it.

I never came to understand why though as I never felt exterior ever during that period or ever while in Scn. :confused:


I think I had about 10 Int Rundowns when I was in the Sea Org.

"Feeling trapped"... :cautious:
 

lotus

Pfizer DNA biotech frog
I recall the int rundown was addressing the "going in and going out" problems .

I did it when I was messed up and overwhelmed by false krs, BofI, Com Ev held by the people who wrote the false krs. ( was about to be declared, for I was too rebel and was telling nasty seniors to fuck off:p ) Thus, wanting to get my arse out of these "appear mental" handlings, I was routed on the int rundown. It went bad..really bad...

I succeeded to get out of it after I did an origination that I knew would send me to attest. So while attesting, I had such an f\n while literally lying.( I never had any win but was holding to the relief an f\n would provideme in allowing my little arse outta there)

If anyone ask me what it does..I'd say it's total bullshit to get some more money out of you...another correction process that leads to other corrections leading to corrections.......$$$$$$!......

Nothing in Scientology made me exterior like I did naturally, when I was a small kid and could naturally fly high, or even, when I experienced it after years of meditation under guidance.
If some found it was of value, glad for them it worth the $$$ paid!
 
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marra

Well-known member
As a member of public volunteering as an auditor I audited lots of people on the Int Rundown, mainly staff members. It always seemed to me that people who hadn't had much auditing gained a sense of status by saying they were out-int. Once they'd had a session from me they could then say they are no longer out-int (until the next time). I always thought it was a waste of everyone's time but obviously I couldn't voice that!
 

La La Lou Lou

Well-known member
In my humble and untrained opinion much of scienOlogy is metaphor, you run imagined incidents that relate to the condition you're trying to handle. Having a painful leg relates to having your leg cut off in a flying saucer accident 45 trillion years ago, 'out int' relates to the terrible feeling you have that you can't get out of a situation, being on staff, having to carry on with auditing even when you feel great, being in the cult, having 'out int' makes you have ethics problems, because you don't want to be there, in the cult, it's similar to being in doubt and getting in to ethics trouble. I think that past lives are possible but the ones I saw in Dianetics were just metaphorical imaginations, and as such probably could lessen pains in the body or cravings for drugs but because they were based on imagination and not reality were unable to have any real lasting effect. I felt exterior every time I got out of their buildings, it always felt good to be out of the cult's prisons.

When you feel happy your space feels bigger and when you feel crushed and attacked you feel small and as if you're hiding within your head. Being in a cult most of your time you feel spiritually emotionally crushed.
 

Dotey OT

We Finally Got a Puppy!
I remember once getting a sec check, Int read on a correction list. The auditor tried talking me out of the read, as he would have been the one to do an Int handling and he didn't want to. We marched happily along our way on the sec check. Years later this came back up in a session and I did an Int handling, with the daily sessions and waiting period after. I always thought it funny that the original read finding auditor didn't want to do it and it showed. I parked that one aside for later inspection, now I just laugh at it. He was the SNR C/S of the org, and was a CLVI SHSBC grad. He was also a dick, and still continues to be a dick.

I talk about this like it all makes sense, and it does within that frame of reference.
 

pineapple

仮面の男
In my humble and untrained opinion much of scienOlogy is metaphor, you run imagined incidents that relate to the condition you're trying to handle. Having a painful leg relates to having your leg cut off in a flying saucer accident 45 trillion years ago, 'out int' relates to the terrible feeling you have that you can't get out of a situation, being on staff, having to carry on with auditing even when you feel great, being in the cult, having 'out int' makes you have ethics problems, because you don't want to be there, in the cult, it's similar to being in doubt and getting in to ethics trouble. I think that past lives are possible but the ones I saw in Dianetics were just metaphorical imaginations, and as such probably could lessen pains in the body or cravings for drugs but because they were based on imagination and not reality were unable to have any real lasting effect. I felt exterior every time I got out of their buildings, it always felt good to be out of the cult's prisons.

When you feel happy your space feels bigger and when you feel crushed and attacked you feel small and as if you're hiding within your head. Being in a cult most of your time you feel spiritually emotionally crushed.
I agree. I think the "out-int" symptoms I had -- pressure in the head, feeling of wanting to get out -- were actually caused by being in scn and had nothing to do with going exterior.

The Int RD did make me feel better at the time, but I think this was because it was one of the rare instances when I got any auditing as a staff member. It was good having someone listen uncritically, even if what I was talking about was whole track fantasy. And the auditor was good.
 
O

Out Ethics

Guest
I think Out / Int was a way for Scientology to get people further indoctrinated and confused.

Out/ Int indicators in Scientology were opportunities to make Scientology seem very mysterious and woo-woo. Scientology had the answer to you feeling like you were dying.

Scientology TOLD you this was the reason you felt like you were dying. NO Science though.

Honestly, now I think it was ones body screaming - get out of this cult now - Scientology is very dangerous. We were connected to a very oppressive organization that was going to destroy us.
We thought it was the "reactive mind" because we were told it was the reactive mind or the thetan was restimulated on the many deaths
blah blah blah.

Then, when a person does Out / Int - it so mysterious and crazy. There is nothing like it to compare it to so it works on most people.

Parlor tricks.

Out/ Int gives a placebo effect only and the person feels better because it was suggested. The ideas are implanted into the subconscious mind.

Didn't they make you wait a week for auditing after an Out / Int rundown? That added to the mystery of it.
 
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Dotey OT

We Finally Got a Puppy!
It's sort of like horoscopes, where there always seems to be something that can be true for someone, I'm sure you've noticed maybe?

The headaches or somatics in the head, it can be true for you when you read the references and put your attention on your head, not to dare you to do that now. I think subliminally, it could be true for anyone that was tied to a post for some reason, mostly contracted and committed to whatever happens, that there was a feeling in the background to everyone that they were a bit "trapped", or stuck in it.

Int was always painted as something that was wrong with the PC without the PC having sinned or done something to deserve it. It could also be used as an ailment, "Oh, I think I'm Out-Int" to the potentially hypochondriac sort, and being subjected to the abuse that one can be put under can really stress one out to that point, not saying that as an accusation. Human endurance has to have limitations.

Edit:
And the one time that I can describe in my life where I was out of the body was in college, 1984. It was not while I was drinking or high, or asleep. But truly unexplainable, to me anyway.
 
O

Out Ethics

Guest
It's sort of like horoscopes, where there always seems to be something that can be true for someone, I'm sure you've noticed maybe?

The headaches or somatics in the head, it can be true for you when you read the references and put your attention on your head, not to dare you to do that now. I think subliminally, it could be true for anyone that was tied to a post for some reason, mostly contracted and committed to whatever happens, that there was a feeling in the background to everyone that they were a bit "trapped", or stuck in it.

Int was always painted as something that was wrong with the PC without the PC having sinned or done something to deserve it. It could also be used as an ailment, "Oh, I think I'm Out-Int" to the potentially hypochondriac sort, and being subjected to the abuse that one can be put under can really stress one out to that point, not saying that as an accusation. Human endurance has to have limitations.

Edit:
And the one time that I can describe in my life where I was out of the body was in college, 1984. It was not while I was drinking or high, or asleep. But truly unexplainable, to me anyway.
Great post Dotey OT. In the beginning of the Scientology adventure, there are parlor tricks to help someone with just about anything. Touch assists, auditing, courses with the attitude that Scientology sees that everything has been done to you and we are here to gently help you. That felt so good.

After a while, the finger pointing outward slowly turns around and is then pointed inward at the person. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYTHING. What did you do to pull it in?
I recall a Sea Org Staffer getting screamed at for the airline being late for an event. It was his fault and he got hammered.

If you join staff, you see everything behind the curtain and feel very betrayed once you see how ugly Scientology really is and that the staff all talk about the public behind their backs but you signed a contract and don't want to be a shit bum to the group so you put up with it until it turns into slave labor in exchange for the right to be screamed at by seniors. By then, you are trapped.

Remember ITSA ITSA ITSA and self-listing?

OUT/INT is done to people who have left their bodies and then restimulated death so they are ill. Am I missing anything else?
The O/I rundown was done to alleviate that.

Go in? Put in? Kicked out of spaces? (yep - I have been kicked out of spaces :cool:)

I was so curious about this stuff.

Now I look back and see that it was placebo effects and no science.

Scientology has constant things for members to do they are so busy they don't have time to think about anything. Meanwhile, their pockets are picked dry and dreams and families shattered.
 

Zertel

Well-known member
About two years ago I jumped in my car to run a quick errand. As I was pulling out of my driveway I felt like a passenger in the car I was driving. "I" was located about two feet to the right of "myself" and a foot behind. Myself was doing fine with the driving so I just observed with interest. When I arrived at my destination I turned off the engine and I and myself were back together. Close but no cigar at being exterior?
 

marra

Well-known member
About two years ago I jumped in my car to run a quick errand. As I was pulling out of my driveway I felt like a passenger in the car I was driving. "I" was located about two feet to the right of "myself" and a foot behind. Myself was doing fine with the driving so I just observed with interest. When I arrived at my destination I turned off the engine and I and myself were back together. Close but no cigar at being exterior?
It's amazing how many people have experiences like this . I once woke up in the middle of the night after a bad dream and I was on the ceiling looking down at my body lying in bed. I was totally freaked out. Then I seemed to zoom from the ceiling into my body and I felt a tingling sensation all over as I woke up in bed. For the next few days I wasn't totally sure if I was still alive or if I was a ghost walking around! This was many years before I got into scientology and even before I'd heard anything about out-of-body experiences.
 
O

Out Ethics

Guest
I recall the int rundown was addressing the "going in and going out" problems .

I did it when I was messed up and overwhelmed by false krs, BofI, Com Ev held by the people who wrote the false krs. ( was about to be declared, for I was too rebel and was telling nasty seniors to fuck off:p ) Thus, wanting to get my arse out of these "appear mental" handlings, I was routed on the int rundown. It went bad..really bad...

I succeeded to get out of it after I did an origination that I knew would send me to attest. So while attesting, I had such an f\n while literally lying.( I never had any win but was holding to the relief an f\n would provideme in allowing my little arse outta there)

If anyone ask me what it does..I'd say it's total bullshit to get some more money out of you...another correction process that leads to other corrections leading to corrections.......$$$$$$!......

Nothing in Scientology made me exterior like I did naturally, when I was a small kid and could naturally fly high, or even, when I experienced it after years of meditation under guidance.
If some found it was of value, glad for them it worth the $$$ paid!
That is interesting to find out they gave you the Out / Int rundown for the reason you stated.

That is not the tech ASFIK and obviously, proves Scientology just does something or anything and if they charge enough money, make the person jump through enough hoops, keep them in the bubble of Scientology (by not allowing them to be connected to anyone who will invalidate their wins, and put them through the routing form. If that is accomplished, Scientology Works. But only for a moment. The key-in is around the corner at the next stop. The REGISTRAR. Has anyone heard one has to wait a week for auditing after the Out/Int Rundown? This adds to the mysterious woo woo. I do not believe one goes in and out of the body. If you leave the body, one is dead. If you think you left your body, I don't know what that is, but it could be simply a hallucination.
 
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O

Out Ethics

Guest
In my humble and untrained opinion much of scienOlogy is metaphor, you run imagined incidents that relate to the condition you're trying to handle. Having a painful leg relates to having your leg cut off in a flying saucer accident 45 trillion years ago, 'out int' relates to the terrible feeling you have that you can't get out of a situation, being on staff, having to carry on with auditing even when you feel great, being in the cult, having 'out int' makes you have ethics problems, because you don't want to be there, in the cult, it's similar to being in doubt and getting in to ethics trouble. I think that past lives are possible but the ones I saw in Dianetics were just metaphorical imaginations, and as such probably could lessen pains in the body or cravings for drugs but because they were based on imagination and not reality were unable to have any real lasting effect. I felt exterior every time I got out of their buildings, it always felt good to be out of the cult's prisons.

When you feel happy your space feels bigger and when you feel crushed and attacked you feel small and as if you're hiding within your head. Being in a cult most of your time you feel spiritually emotionally crushed.
Great post La La
Yes, I believe we make everything up with the whole track stuff in Scientology.
Scientology is clever at foreshadowing your wins at the events and the promo.
Scientology tells you what they want to hear.
You will see people say the same thing over and over and over repeating what was spoon fed to them.

Who was the first person to stand up and salute to L Ron Hubbard? They did it and everyone copied them.
That became a much anticipated event for a winning Scientologist, especially the OT's.
And who was the first to add that "SIR" at the end for drama effect? :gaaagh:
PUKE
I am so done with all of that.
FREEDOM! It feels so good.
I can listen to or read philosophers who actually discovered the Laws of the Universe.
I like Eckart Tolle and a few other great people out there today teaching about Mindfulness and the power of NOW.
There are people actually teaching the Laws of the Universe, which L Ron Hubbard copied and then squirreled so that Scientologists accomplish HIS goal, not their goals.
I can do some meditating and feel calmer and clear. I can do it in my room behind closed door with no twin, no C/S, no spies to report me. I am totally free to explore my spirituality and mind.
For the lurker out there wondering what they will do. There is a whole world to explore and it is all free. The Library has books you can check out for free. Meditation takes about 15 minutes and it works. I don't have to belong to any group, pay any fees, worship any bust, write up any wins or have any Scientology nincompoops at my door to hand me a golden rod for not disconnecting from my friends and family. The lesson I learned from Scientology is to do a little bit of whatever helps you and not get carried away with anyone or any practice. Be true to who you are and if you don't know who you are, explore it and make decisions. You are so much more than the Cult member Scientology wants you to be. Explore freedom.

Thanks for this board Pirate and Bum.
 
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pineapple

仮面の男
<snip>
Has anyone heard one has to wait a week for auditing after the Out/Int Rundown? This adds to the mysterious woo woo. I do not believe one goes in and out of the body. If you leave the body, one is dead. If you think you left your body, I don't know what that is, but it could be simply a hallucination.
There was no one-week wait when I was in (1975-1981). In the next session after the Int RD you 2WC'ed "How do you feel about Int/Ext now?" and if all okay you could proceed with other auditing. In my case that's what we did -- went on to the next reading items on the C/S 53 (big correction list covering pretty much all possible case outnesses), which were out-lists and wrong indications, an area where as a staff member I had much "charge."

Here's the C/S 53 for those who may not be familiar. This has been added to some from the one I remember:

I now agree with your views about exterior. I don't think there is any "thetan," and consciousness is just a function of the brain. When that goes, so do we. I "exteriorized" many times, but I now think this is hallucination. I can't prove this, of course. :)
 
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