OT VIII "Confidential" Student Briefing

Panda Termint

Cabal of One
If you mean by "identity package" a cluster of BTs, the standard Scientology indoc says these beings are entirely separate beings, literal beings, not "our creations" at all. The glue that holds BTs in clusters and what attaches them to their hosts is some sort of traumatic content, like the Xenu incident, or another kind of engram. The "static" or "OT" is who/what remains after all these other entities or BTs blow.

I remember being in a condition a bit similar to the one you describe. In my attempt to tell my auditor what was going on with me, I happened to voice the confidential EP of "Clear OT" which is "No track." I think the reference for it is one of those super secret HCOBs that only C/Ses train on. Anyway, I hadn't seen it before I attested. It was a huge surprise to me that Hubbard had written about this condition so precisely, and it was of course a big ego-boost.

Now I'd describe my condition at the time as being more or less pathologically dissociated from my personal life and experience. I was extremely vulnerable to suggestion and further predation in the real world. The state or condition is nothing to aspire to, and I'm not proud of it.
Identity package to me means "something/someone you believe is you". BTs and Clusters are just a sub-group of that misconception in the scientological mindset.
Just to be clear (lol): are you saying that anyone who believes they have risen above identification with these misconceptions or believes they have achieved a state of "no track" is somehow "more or less pathologically dissociated from [their] personal life and experience" or is that just true for you? Just curious. :)
 

Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
Now I'd describe my condition at the time as being more or less pathologically dissociated from my personal life and experience. I was extremely vulnerable to suggestion and further predation in the real world. The state or condition is nothing to aspire to, and I'm not proud of it
You put your finger on why LRH wanted everyone in that state
 

Hatshepsut

Well-known member
Now I'd describe my condition at the time as being more or less pathologically dissociated from my personal life and experience. I was extremely vulnerable to suggestion and further predation in the real world. The state or condition is nothing to aspire to, and I'm not proud of it.
I was trying to imagine what you might have been running when this was the situation. Lo and behold several memories came up of when I saw it that way. I was on the Dianetic Clear Special Intensive. I was given the item 'Natural Clear'.....floating TA and all. But it booted me right out of touch with this lifetime and into another, with a much different hat. There was a capture incident . I was on cloud nine for several weeks, and then the problems of that more exterior identity tumbled in. I found myself stressed about things that had nothing at all to do with my life to date. I felt out of sorts and disassociated from my body.

I think there is a danger in not really super educating staff who deliver auditing. You need to know when there's been a sudden shift of attention. Our lives have a center focus that keeps our attention dominated. We did the Assumption-- assumed the position. It's a perfect prime postulate if you will. Bouncing out of our natural orbit, and into orbit around some old identity, can cause friction. I wouldn't go anywhere near the "We Come Back" valence.

1570088677192.png1570088699044.png1570088721577.png gobble gobble, yummy free theta.
 
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Hatshepsut

Well-known member
Okay, thanks for your clarification. I'm not very familiar with how you are using specific terms and the territory you're describing with them. My relevant training and experience is limited to what I learned and delivered at Flag and AOLA.

When I left Scientology, I went on a search to find out whether I could find other similar systems that included invisible entities, and how they might be interpreted. One of the most helpful references I found was in The Ritual Magic Manual by David Griffin.

In the Rosicrucian system, as you can see, the entities are both "independent spirits" and "partial systems." The direction of improvement is that they are "brought back once more into the personality."

In the Scientology system, the BTs and clusters are blown off, discarded. There is no integration step.
Yes, that's what I understood when trying to get enough information to do the Abramelin Operation way back when. It's working on cleansing or reintegrating your shadow parts that seem to have their way of getting autonomy.

David Griffin is Imperator for Life . The Golden Dawn had a pretty neat website a few years back with a Rosicrucian Reading Room that was more than impressive. It had brilliant red and black colors. Now I can't find it anymore. I was impressed with the understanding of the topics mentioned that Isaac Luria had. He started to build his new meditation system upon it. One's eyes can get crossed trying to absorb the meanderings of kabbalah. The masters develop their own methods and have different ways to insert significance.
......................................................................

Oy oy. Site revamped. So much infighting and struggles for power with these guys. Anyway, what's left of the beautiful R.R. reading room.
 
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Veda

Well-known member
During Scientology's period of greatest expansion, during the 1960s and into the 1970s, this was the "Ability Gained" of OT 8, which sat atop the much displayed Grade Chart:

"Ability to be at cause knowingly and at will over thought, life, form, matter, energy, space and time, subjective and objective."

Other abilities gained would include the ability to have Total Recall of one's time track ("whole track" time track not occluded), and the ability to operate exterior from the body with full perception.

A person who had done the OT levels who thought that he or she could not differentiate between some entity's facsimiles and his own would have been regarded as a "Degraded Being" and "Failed Case."

Scientologists had been lured into Scientology with the "bait," and then, years later, came the "switch."

OT 8 was downgraded to an "Ability Gained" that, essentially, was "I don't know who I am and, zowie!, I am really delighted!"

_____________________

From Hubbard's 1946 'Affirmations':

"Your writing has a deep hypnotic effect on people and they are always pleased with what you write... Your psychology is advanced and true and wonderful. It hypnotizes people. It predicts their emotions, for you are their ruler."
 

Dotey OT

Dis-Membered
So there were no OTVIII completions between 1997 and 2001, with the advent of the golden age of tech for OT's. I'm not exactly sure I am remembering those dates correctly, I was on staff during that period, actually before that and after that. My wife and I were in the car during a trip and talking about the folks we know that recently, maybe within the last ten years or so, completed OTVIII. We couldn't think of anyone that made it and was now off lines, or to be more specific, it seemed as though they were "sticking to it" more than the folks that we know BEFORE the GOAT. At least those that are still living, there are a few that passed. Late eighties and early nineties OTVII's that were and are off lines, we know of, and quiet a few. But not as much recently.

Am I correct in this?
 

freethinker

Controversial
Hmmmmm...interesting. So the clams and such were all about Earth incidents with the GE, etc. I wonder if that was the crux of OT8 processing at the time or if it included the remainder of the HOM processes?

It's all bullshit, I know, but I'm wondering if there was any consistency to the madness. It makes some sense to run the Earth incidents of the weeper, etc., if we're just going back to the Xenu stuff but all the other stuff like the Airplane Goals, Gorilla Goals or whatever the hell it was was supposed to be way, way, way before Earth.
There is always consistency to madness which is more madness. :cool:
 

Caroline

clerk #2
Identity package to me means "something/someone you believe is you". BTs and Clusters are just a sub-group of that misconception in the scientological mindset.
Just to be clear (lol): are you saying that anyone who believes they have risen above identification with these misconceptions or believes they have achieved a state of "no track" is somehow "more or less pathologically dissociated from [their] personal life and experience" or is that just true for you? Just curious. :)
Identity package: The word evokes some loose connections to NOTs material, which level goes way into valences, and false identities, and of course clusters (packages of BTs) with identity issues. But Hubbard didn't use that term in the advanced levels I studied, at least not in the context you're using it. In RTC world, BTs and clusters aren't a sub-set of any identity package.

I was describing my own experience. I don't know if it's just true for me, but I suspect not. One reason why I suspect not may be answered in the Ritual Magic Manual reference I cited to ^. I found the information helpful, but I'm not a mental health professional.

Scientology processing of "BTs" does not go in the direction of re-integrating "them" into the personality. The direction Hubbard takes Scientologists with his system is implied in the following HCOB:

HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE

Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex

HCO BULLETIN OF 30 JULY 1980

Remimeo
THE NATURE OF A BEING

When one is associating with or attempting to guide or handle a person, it is necessary to know something of the nature of a being.
If a being were a single unit, separated from all other beings, conditions and current influences, the task of understanding him would be relatively simple and philosophers would have had it all worked out long before Dianetics and Scientology.
<snip>​
What you see as a human being, a person, is not a single unit being.
In the first place, there is the matter of valence. A person can be himself or he can be under the belief that he is another person or thing entirely. This removes him a step from being a simple being.
Then there is the matter of being in a body. A body is a very complex contrivance, quite remarkable, quite complicated. And it is also quite subject to its own distortions.
There are also the entities (as discussed in Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health, pages 84-90, and also The History Of Man, pages 13-14, 43, 75-77). These follow all the rules and laws and phenomena of single beings. And then there is the matter of influences of other people around this human being.
<snip>​
L. RON HUBBARD
FOUNDER
Technical Bulletins Volume XII (1991 ed., pp. 131, 132)
 
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Caroline

clerk #2
During Scientology's period of greatest expansion, during the 1960s and into the 1970s, this was the "Ability Gained" of OT 8, which sat atop the much displayed Grade Chart:

"Ability to be at cause knowingly and at will over thought, life, form, matter, energy, space and time, subjective and objective."

Other abilities gained would include the ability to have Total Recall of one's time track ("whole track" time track not occluded), and the ability to operate exterior from the body with full perception.

A person who had done the OT levels who thought that he or she could not differentiate between some entity's facsimiles and his own would have been regarded as a "Degraded Being" and "Failed Case."

Scientologists had been lured into Scientology with the "bait," and then, years later, came the "switch."

OT 8 was downgraded to an "Ability Gained" that, essentially, was "I don't know who I am and, zowie!, I am really delighted!"

_____________________

From Hubbard's 1946 'Affirmations':

"Your writing has a deep hypnotic effect on people and they are always pleased with what you write... Your psychology is advanced and true and wonderful. It hypnotizes people. It predicts their emotions, for you are their ruler."
Thanks, Veda. That affirmation creeps me out, but it's very revealing. Here's another couple that show how he personally related to the "therapy" he was developing for the people he intended to rule:

(l) That I wrote a great book in The One Command [Excalibur] and that it removed all my fears even until now, except that my chapters on the mind do not affect my own mind. That I have will power and great mental control. That I need not associate anything unless I wish.
[...]​
There was one error in that book and you have psychically willed it into nothing. It was the electronic theory of the workings of the human mind. Human, material minds do work this way and you were right. Your own mind does not work this way. You have great spiritual strength. Your mind is not material. It does not react like any human mind.
The Admissions of L. Ron Hubbard (ca. 1946) > Scientology Research

OT VIII "Ability Gained" from a 1970 printing of Scientology 0-8:

 

pineapple

Well-known member
1970 Grade Chart, showing same "Ability Gained" for OT VIII (takes a few seconds to load):

 

Caroline

clerk #2
A person who had done the OT levels who thought that he or she could not differentiate between some entity's facsimiles and his own would have been regarded as a "Degraded Being" and "Failed Case."
"Technically," Clears don't have pictures of their own. Any pictures that a person at Clear or above sees belongs to their BTs, who are NOT clear:

L. Ron Hubbard said:
HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
HCO BULLETIN OF 15 SEPTEMBER 1978
ISSUE II

LIMITED
DISTRIBUTION
Advanced Courses
Specialist
Checksheet
ACS Auditors
ACS C/Ses

NED for OTs Series 2
C O N F I D E N T I A L
WHY YOU CAN’T RUN ENGRAMS AFTER CLEAR

A Dianetic or Scientology Clear has erased his own bank and has no pictures. Any attempt to run a Dn or Scn Clear on Dianetics, NED, XDN or any R3R, causes restimulation of BTs and clusters, and it is their pictures he sees and tries to run as his own, which is a “misownership” of the incident/picture. As he thinks it’s his picture he "misidentifies" himself with the BT or cluster whose picture it is. [...]
For people who couldn't run OT 3, it often meant they were a "bypassed case," meaning their lower grades were "out," and therefore were still unable to see themselves as a composite. They weren't "separated out." The lower levels properly done prepares the person to accept the narrative and procedure at OT 3.
 
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Panda Termint

Cabal of One
The State Attained for OTVIII shown in the posts above refer to a completely different (pre-NOTs) rendition of that Level. I've never seen that particular Ability promised for post-NOTs New OTVIII. I certainly never expected that from the Level. My sympathies to anyone who did. :)
 
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Panda Termint

Cabal of One
Identity package: The word evokes some loose connections to NOTs material, which level goes way into valences, and false identities, and of course clusters (packages of BTs) with identity issues. But Hubbard didn't use that term in the advanced levels I studied, at least not in the context you're using it. In RTC world, BTs and clusters aren't a sub-set of any identity package.
...
They are conceived as such on New OTVIII. Think about it; "Now knows who he/she isn't and interested in finding out who he/she is." New OT VIII addresses identities the person thinks of as "self". BT and Cluster pictures encountered in auditing and/or life are a definite factor (not the ONLY factor) leading to misconceptions about who you are/were/might have been etc.
 

Caroline

clerk #2
The State Attained for OTVIII shown in the posts above refer to a completely different (pre-NOTs) rendition of that Level. I've never seen that particular Ability promised for post-NOTs New OTVIII. I certainly never expected that from the Level. My sympahies to anyone who did. :)
I understand that when OT VIII was released in 1988, the EP was given as "Truth Revealed."
 

Caroline

clerk #2
They are conceived as such on New OTVIII. Think about it; "Now knows who he/she isn't and interested in finding out who he/she is." New OT VIII addresses identities the person thinks of as "self". BT and Cluster pictures encountered in auditing and/or life are a definite factor (not the ONLY factor) leading to misconceptions about who you are/were/might have been etc.
I only got as far as OT 5. Did you do OT VIII aboard the Freewinds?

OT 5 also addresses identities the person thinks of as "self."

L. Ron Hubbard said:
HCOB 26 Sept 1978
NOTS Series 4 Attachment

SHELL BT: A BT or cluster that surrounds the Pre-OT’s body like a shell. A Clear can go into the valence of, and see the pictures of, this BT or cluster and mistake these as his own, as he seems to be in valence in the picture.
L. Ron Hubbard said:
HCOB 15 September 1978
NOTS Series 1
The Shell BT is a composite body entity which is a mock-up that thinks (mistakenly) that it is holding the body together. You can collide with that. I suppose that’s really probably what they think is the astral body, a collection of BTs and clusters molded into a semblance of a body structure. As this “astral body” is highly electronic. BTs and clusters can easily get stuck in it even though they themselves are creating it.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal of One
I understand that when OT VIII was released in 1988, the EP was given as "Truth Revealed."
Yes, Truth Revealed was a sort of blanket description of what may be attained on the Level. It's a truth rather than the truth. Some people find it quite enlightening and some people are apparenty annoyed and disappointed to discover that they're not who they thought they were. :)
 

Veda

Well-known member
"Technically," Clears don't have pictures of their own. Any pictures that a person at Clear or above sees belongs to their BTs, who are NOT clear:

For people who couldn't run OT 3, it often meant they were a "bypassed case," meaning their lower grades were "out," and therefore were still unable to see themselves as a composite. They weren't "separated out." The lower levels properly done prepares the person to accept the narrative and procedure at OT 3.
Hubbard, for whatever reason, insisted that facsimiles were always pictures. A blind person with a facsimile of a bakery with its aromas, would, while returning to an incident in the bakery, per Hubbard, have a black picture with a bakery aroma.

The - seemingly redundant - term, MENTAL IMAGE PICTURE, appears sometime in 1955, as far as I can tell.

I've encountered "Clears" who are very certain that they have no mental image pictures, to the extent that they are unable to have them, and become allergic to them - probably not wanting to re-stimulate their "BT" case. (Such people are better described as "blank" rather than "Clear.")

The idea that a "Clear Theta Clear" (or similar envisioned state) would be able to review his own time track, in its entirety, was replaced with a phobia for facsimiles, which, in the three word hypno kindergarten version, had become dangerous (for "Clears") MENTAL IMAGE PICTURES.

An advanced Yogi or a Magician - at least hypothetically - is supposed to be capable of reviewing his many past lives, by re-creating facsimiles from his "knowingness," with no risk or danger.

He would not necessarily carry these facsimiles around, but they would be available for instant recreation and re-viewing.

As Hubbard down trended over the years, his down trending, and his phobias, would sometimes be reflected in his "tech," and result in Scientologists becoming afflicted with these characteristics and - in accordance with his 'Affirmations' - thoroughly delighted to be so afflicted.
 
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