Off The Deep End


Pfizer DNA biotech frog
I know of her since I had regularly seen her promo in my Facebook thread.
I checked her you tube video to know who she is…
Actually she is weird and appears as a guru.🤥😵
Mais guts reacted negatively and I trust My guts 😀

Thanks for the link though 😏


Pfizer DNA biotech frog
I just checked and doesn’t seem to be available on Netflix platform.
However, a part from Hulu, it can be watched on either YouTube or Google for a few bucks.



Lisbeth Salander
I watched it . . . so you wouldn't have to. (Did FF through some of it.) :coolwink:

The filming, sound, editing were top-notch and excellent.

Overall, I found it abysmal, depressing, and a waste of time.
Unless, you need to watch a tenth-rate cult in action, which I
don't think you need to.

She has what I'd call a small "trusted circle" of confidants
-- more like a commune, IMO -- and openly cult rules.

***Spoilers follow.***

She was sexually abused for years as a child and is herself
a troubled person. Thirteen "relationships" with men, plus
five marriages does not bode well for her own mental stability
as an adult.

Bunches of people desperate, depressed -- some suicidal --
people show up for her events and she tries to give them
pep talks. Some she'll put up on stage to talk through their
private and sometimes severe mental issues.

She claims to have a method, a process, a path, but in reality
she has nothing. Nothing but her marketing claims.

There's so much, "figure-figure," mental masturbation, cerebral
stream of consciousness in public by very troubled and upset
clients and staff. No resolutions to speak of. I'm not into all that,
especially for entertainment.

I think she's a psychotic actually. I only knew one woman like
her in my life. She'd just gotten back from the Freewinds and
had just completed OT8. She seemed like a computing psycho
to me. Frightening. A psycho who can put on a normal facade and
operate normally in life, but underneath that veneer is crazy as
sh*t. Elizabeth Holmes of Theranos infamy is one of those. All
BTW, Hulu's limited series “The Dropout,” the story of Elizabeth​
Holmes and Theranos, was dark but entertaining. Recommend it.​

After seeing this self-improvement cult documentary, I have a
ton more respect for Hubbard's auditing solutions for people.
At least, most of the time people ended up with VGIs after sessions,
as I recall. That's something. Much better "tech," if you will, than what
this woman is pushing. No one seemed to get better.

Read Rinder's interview. He seems to have loved it. YMMV ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


I tried to be a good cop in the wrong police force
Another one on my list.

I'm currently watching "Under the banner of heaven" and I'm planning to see "The dropout".


I tried to be a good cop in the wrong police force
I'm starting to watch the Deep End.

What is instantly striking about the documentary is that (at least all through episode1) it has absolutely no narration or commentary. So far it is 100% composed of interviews with the members as well as a few bits and pieces of interviews with critics.

I chuckled when I saw they used something like a 2 second long soundbyte of John Dehlin saying something critical.

I'm not sure that formula works entirely well. Sometimes the various parts of the interviews feel like they were cut and pieced together in a haphazard, confusing and jumbled way. There is a greater image that appears, but it is hidden in a brickolage mosaic of various offhand comments and statements by various people.

Which is a bit sad, because I know for a fact that for example some of the critics have made well educated and constructive arguments about what exactly Teal is doing and what are the dangers. But you never see any of them get to make their full argument on screen, so you don't get a clear picture of what is going on. At least in episode 1.


I tried to be a good cop in the wrong police force
Ok, finished watching the whole thing.

It does get better in the last 2 episodes. You start to see the inner rules of the "core" of the group (the people who live diretcly with Teal) and just how much SO-like that group is.

The picture becomes more focused and less messy. But it takes its sweet time getting there. For my taste, the documentary could have been better structured, less chaotic and less "artsy". I mean there's too many scenes of people saying nothing, sitting in a pool after dark with weird music playing in the background. I guess theydirector thinks they add to the "vibe" or something.

But to me that 'artsy' screentime would have been better spent giving Jared Dobson or Andey Fellows a few more minutes of speaking time. The ex-members and defectors are really under-utilized in the documentary.

I'd say if one wants to have good information about Teal Swan's group, you will spend your time better if you watch our own Chris Shelton interview Andey, or watch John Dehlin interview Jared. I'm posting links to both below:

There's one last thing that is important, but isn't really explored in the documentary. Teal mentions she was abused as a child, but the documentary doesn't really go deep in that rabbit hole.

In fact: Teal claims she was a victim of ritual satanic abuse in the beginning of the 1990s. She was treated by the psychotherapist Barbara W. Snow.

Now for those not familiar with the "satanic panic" of the late 80s and early 90s - it happened mostly in Idaho and Utah. There was a series of cases where during psychotherapy children became convinced that their parents or other family members had ritually abused them (often sexual abuse) and testified against them, leading to convictions. Most of these claims were proven false and several psychotherapists used undue influence to convince the children that they were abuse victims when in fact they weren't.

Side Note: I know this might sound like another story of an ex-scientologist saying: "Psychiatry is bad", but this stuff has a proven court record. Barbara Snow herself was involved in serious litigation against her for manipulating people into thinking they were victims.
"In January 2007, the division (state's Division of Occupational and Professional Licensing) accused Snow of violating Utah codes of professional conduct and ethical principles defined by the National Association of Social Workers.

The disciplinary notice alleged Snow convinced a male relative he was sexually abused by his father. It also contended Snow convinced a female relative she was the victim of satanic abuse and military testing. When state investigators questioned Snow, she allegedly provided made-up notes about those sessions.

In the agreement, Snow admitted destroying a relative's computer equipment and adding two incorrect dates to her psychotherapy notes. The correct dates were located in other portions of the files, and the state ultimately did not find this to be unprofessional conduct."

My point is: Teal Swan's childhood therapist was under a lawsuit and was on probation for allegedly implanting her patients with fake memories of ritual abuse. Teal Swan claims she was a victim of ritual satanic abuse. Then Teal Swan goes on to convince many of her own 'patients' (through channeling and other pseudoscience) that their families abused them.

Maybe it is just me, but I think I see a very familiar pattern here. A person falls victim of undue influence, cultish practices or other mind-bending experiences. Then later in life said person begins to use these same methods on others to gain power/wealth/recognition for herself. The former cult-victim becomes the new cult-guru.

Hubbard did that exact same thing. He was a victim and a follower of Thelema, then he left and went on to start his own cult where he used many of the same techniques Crowley and Parsons used. The victim became the guru.

(I'm gonna make this a separate thread to be honest)
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