Mike Rinder book ~~ less than a month away, it coming soon.

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
Here are the documents you are talking about I guess:


Church of Scientology Part 05 of 09

It has been so much redacted by the authorities, that we can barely know what it is about :confused:

I wasn't talking about those documents. I was talking about the individual reports that came from Mike Rinder and the others who were interviewed. To my knowledge, they were not released, even in a redacted version.
 

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
Here's an excerpt of something that Mike Rinder posted a couple of months ago concerning the 2009-2010 FBI investigation:

The 2009/2010 FBI Scientology Investigation: New Details

If you are wondering why nothing resulted from this extensive investigation — despite huge volumes of evidence amassed, realize the FBI does not prosecute cases. They are the investigators for the US Attorneys, and it is the US Attorneys Office that decides whether to prosecute a case or not. We do not have any documents from the US Attorneys Office about why they did not consider this to be a viable case to prosecute. You will note in the earlier blog post above, scientology retained the former chief of the Civil Rights Division of the US Attorneys Office in Los Angeles, Mary Carter Andrues, who had been responsible for human trafficking cases until 2007. If you wonder whether wealthy, determined criminals can influence a US Attorney into not doing their job, I highly recommend watching the HBO documentary Surviving Jeffrey Epstein or even better, reading Brad Edwards and Brittany Henderson’s brilliant book Relentless Pursuit: My Fight for the Victims of Jeffrey Epstein. It is a story of incredible levels of influence exerted by Epstein over the US Attorneys Office for the Southern District of Florida. Despite what scientology tried to claim, lack of prosecution does not mean there was not extensive evidence of criminal activity.
 

lotus

Pfizer DNA biotech frog
Oh I get it, thank you for providing me with context.

while reading his comment Epstein case came to my mind; and then, he brings it.
Epstein was priorly prosecuted years ago and his attorneys made arrangements with the general attorney .
Also, in this case, former FBI agents explained that in the united state, FBI usually doesn’t go after wealthy prominent public figure, (they had no specific explanation for the motive) and this is what can explain some cases involving wealthy people may seems to be put away very quickly.
 

statpush

Member
We can't see the report and neither can statpush, yet he asserted about Mike Rinder:
"...he has not revealed anything which could seriously injure the church. Meaning, anything which would be a credible threat to the non-profit status, or would result in criminal charges." The implication is that justice hasn't been done because Mike Rinder has withheld information from law enforcement, yet Statpush posted no evidence to support such an assertion.

Sufficient information has been provided to the feds from many people (over 10 individuals) that were interviewed by the FBI. Also, in a different investigation from the feds by a different branch of government additional witnesses were interviewed. That investigation from years ago has not been made public to my knowledge.
It doesn't quite work that way...I am not making the claim the Mike Rinder has given incriminating evidence to authorities resulting in a credible threat to the church. To backup this claim, I would need to see evidence; and before you reference Church of Scientology Part 05 of 09, which I have reviewed, but does not appear to include Mike Rinder's name.

But, just to be clear, let me define "credible threat":

Information given to authorities which results in:
1) An arrest and conviction of a church official on criminal charges
2) An official investigation into the legitimacy of the church's non-profit status

For decades now, critics have accused the church of criminal wrong-doing. But never provides the burden of proof necessary to charge and convict. Instead, its all about how immoral the church is (which I agree), but this is a long way from criminal prosecution.

I remember when Mike left the church, everyone was hopeful that something would finally get done, since Mike knew "where all the bodies were buried". However, this has not panned out. From this I have to conclude:

1) There are no actionable criminal acts
2) There are actionable criminal acts, but if revealed would incriminated Mike
3) There are actionable criminal acts, but remain undisclosed for some unknown reason

Even if the statute of limitations on the criminal act has expired, these should be revealed to the public; but this has not occurred.

It is easy to point the finger at federal authorities or institutions for this failure, but this gets us nowhere.

Just in the past couple of years, Tony Ortega has reported on current credit card fraud against elderly public. Even referring them to attorney Graham Berry. Why not go directly to the police? It just happened, plenty of documentation, plenty of witnesses, should be relatively straightforward to file criminal charges. A proper investigation would likely discover that the church has engaged in systemic global financial fraud for years. If done, it would of seriously called their non-profit status into question.

Yet, as far as I know, no one has reported this to the police and demand action. Why is that?
 
Last edited:

statpush

Member
Here's an excerpt of something that Mike Rinder posted a couple of months ago concerning the 2009-2010 FBI investigation:

The 2009/2010 FBI Scientology Investigation: New Details

If you are wondering why nothing resulted from this extensive investigation — despite huge volumes of evidence amassed, realize the FBI does not prosecute cases. They are the investigators for the US Attorneys, and it is the US Attorneys Office that decides whether to prosecute a case or not. We do not have any documents from the US Attorneys Office about why they did not consider this to be a viable case to prosecute. You will note in the earlier blog post above, scientology retained the former chief of the Civil Rights Division of the US Attorneys Office in Los Angeles, Mary Carter Andrues, who had been responsible for human trafficking cases until 2007. If you wonder whether wealthy, determined criminals can influence a US Attorney into not doing their job, I highly recommend watching the HBO documentary Surviving Jeffrey Epstein or even better, reading Brad Edwards and Brittany Henderson’s brilliant book Relentless Pursuit: My Fight for the Victims of Jeffrey Epstein. It is a story of incredible levels of influence exerted by Epstein over the US Attorneys Office for the Southern District of Florida. Despite what scientology tried to claim, lack of prosecution does not mean there was not extensive evidence of criminal activity.
I am not aware of the "huge volumes of evidence", maybe you can supply your source of this information?

Are you implying the church has done something illegal by hiring Andrues or that Andrues, herself, has done something illegal, please supply evidence to support this.

If this were, as you imply, a case of Epstein Syndrome, all the more reason to go public with this information. Let the public know that we have evidence that the church is a criminal organisation, and that it has been reported to the authorities, and that the authorities have done nothing. Shout it loud and clear, name names, dates, who did what, etc...gosh, you could even do this on the Fair Game podcast.

Wonder why no one has?
 

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
It doesn't quite work that way...I am not making the claim the Mike Rinder has given incriminating evidence to authorities resulting in a credible threat to the church. To backup this claim, I would need to see evidence; and before you reference Church of Scientology Part 05 of 09, which I have reviewed, but does not appear to include Mike Rinder's name.
My post that you're responding to was about your claim where you asserted about Mike Rinder:

"...he has not revealed anything which could seriously injure the church. Meaning, anything which would be a credible threat to the non-profit status, or would result in criminal charges."

The problem with your claim is that you don't know what he has or hasn't revealed to the FBI, which makes your claim false, doesn't it?



But, just to be clear, let me define "credible threat":

Information given to authorities which results in:
1) An arrest and conviction of a church official on criminal charges
2) An official investigation into the legitimacy of the church's non-profit status
3) There are actionable criminal acts, but remain undisclosed for some unknown reason
No, sorry, you don't get to define what is a "credible threat". Whether a threat is considered credible or not isn't dependent upon arrests, convictions, or investigations. For a number of reasons, strong evidence of criminal acts can be handed over to law enforcement which then declines to act on it or the prosecutors choose not to act on it or launch an official investigation. There are credible threats that never result in an arrest & conviction or an official investigation.



It doesn't quite work that way...I am not making the claim the Mike Rinder has given incriminating evidence to authorities resulting in a credible threat to the church. To backup this claim, I would need to see evidence; and before you reference Church of Scientology Part 05 of 09, which I have reviewed, but does not appear to include Mike Rinder's name.
I had no intention of referencing CoS Part 05 of 09. But since you brought it up, did it include the name of any of the witnesses interviewed by the FBI and detail what they reported?




For decades now, critics have accused the church of criminal wrong-doing. But never provides the burden of proof necessary to charge and convict. Instead, its all about how immoral the church is (which I agree), but this is a long way from criminal prosecution.
The "church" is a convicted felon with 11 from their organization going to prison and LRH being named an unindicted co-conspirator.

It's more than just accusations of criminal wrongdoing.


It is easy to point the finger at federal authorities or institutions for this failure, but this gets us nowhere.
The federal authorities are responsible to represent the American people and are responsible for the administration of justice. Do you believe that they properly fulfilled that responsibility over the decades with regard to the CoS?
 

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
I am not aware of the "huge volumes of evidence", maybe you can supply your source of this information?

Are you implying..."
I am not Mike Rinder, I simply cross-posted an excerpt from his blog. HE is the source of that information. There are other sources as well, Graham Berry being one of them. I believe he wrote the petition to the White House back in 2011 that included this:




“We petition the Obama Administration to …”

EXAMINE THE GOVERNMENT’S FAILURE TO INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY CRIME, FRAUD AND ABUSE.

WHEREAS, the FBI has 300+ recent complaints of Scientology crimes and atrocities - human trafficking, forced abortions and civil rights violations, and the IRS has evidence of private inurement violations justifying INTERMEDIATE SANCTIONS, and existing evidence on hand meets RICO statutes, WE REQUEST that the White House investigate and employ a Special Prosecutor to:

EXAMINE why, with such an abundance of RICO evidence of Scientology being a corrupt and criminal entity, no law enforcement agency has moved forward;

INVESTIGATE undue favor and pressure brought by lawyers for Scientology leader David Miscavige to stop the investigations;


EXAMINE why around the world the “church” is investigated as a criminal entity while the U.S. Government does nothing?


There is a thread about this on the original ESMB:
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
I have my own "take" about what would make an exciting, thrilling
book and one I would want to read. I've asked Mike directly and publicly
some pretty detailed questions over the years and he's never answered any
of them. Here's some of my previous content along those lines for those still
interested in my rants:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When Bernie Madoff ran his $65-billion-dollar Ponzi scam, he had help from
from about six confederates working on the "secret floor." Hundreds of other
employees working on the legitimate floors, which managed the legal part
of the Madoff empire, had no clues as to what was going on "upstairs."

Likewise in the Sea Org, I know most people are true believers and have no
doubts about LRH or the tech. However, a few must know of LRH's assisted
suicide, the truth of the non-existant OT 8, 9 &10, LRH's non-attainment
of a godly case state, and his final descent into dementia and ill health,
essentially negating any value to "his tech."

At minimum, Dave Miscavige and Ray Mithoff, who read LRH's folders and invented
the current OT 8, should probably be well aware of the Current State of the Scam.

Question
Who do you think are the other insiders on the "secret floor" of Scientology?
Any ideas? I wonder who are members of the small cabal that are still active,
while knowing the bitter truth.

I have a suspicion that people who learn "the truth" are possibly relegated to
a lifetime sentence in The Hole to prevent them from blabbing out in the wild.

Knowing "the truth" while committing the crime is the biggest crime of all.



Footnote 1:
I've asked both Marty and Mike a couple times to explain all this
to me and to name names of the "conspiring insiders" and both ignored me
or demurred. So be it. They have reasons or don't know. We'll leave it at that.

Pretty long . . . I'll leave it all in a spoiler.
Mike,

By 1986-88, Miscavige and Mithoff, at least, knew that Hubbard went down hard, that factually there were no upper OT levels, and perhaps much of the Bridge was a scam. (Mithoff had to invent an OT8 to keep the complaining OT7 mobs at bay.)

In order to keep things going, Miscavige had to very quickly cover up details about Hubbard’s final years and create a series of narratives or shore stories to feed to the masses, lest they all be found out about and the entire COS collapse at that time.

Miscavige, and others possibly, sat around for the next few years and invented lie after lie, one false narrative after the next. It would be very interesting to hear about all the machinations and palace intrigues that went on back then and who was actually responsible and how exactly they did it.

How the imaginative stories and delusions of one man, Hubbard, were given an extended life and a much more profitable one, by his perfect successor and heir to the throne, Miscavige. A man who could tell lies with equal aplomb as Hubbard and who was equally greedy: power and money are all that matter. And how did people sit around and not notice this happening?

Do you know anyone who was there and who you could interview about the secret inner workings of this “perfect transition” of a con from a dying and delusional old man to younger and equally ruthless one.

The only person I’ve heard speak about this with authority and total bluntness is Bill Franks. May he rest in peace.

I think digging into some of this “ancient history” would give people a hard lesson about how these extended cons and Ponzi schemes are kept going for so long.

This is the real story (basic-basic) people need to hear, whether they’re ready for it or not.

The truth will set you free . . . as I’ve been told.

PS: Two movies were done about the inner “back room” workings and lies of the Bernie Madoff scheme. And the various people responsible. Viewers are interested in this stuff. How others get conned. How it’s done. How the fake stories are invented and promulgated. At the genus; at the source; early on.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reference your article and photo: “The Disappeared” September 25, 2018

It’s always intrigued me, which of these upper level SO management guys [in the photo] were the inventors of the shore stories, the lies, and which were simply the enablers of the shore stories.

We know Hubbard invented a so-called “science,” but how did he end up himself? I can only go by the actual outcomes it produced in him.

Hubbard was very physically ill on and off from about 1968 to his death in 1986 (ages 57 to 75). Much more so than most people his age. He suffered from multiple bouts of pneumonia yearly at one time (admitted in a personal letter), heart attacks, strokes, pancreatitis (taken to hospital in early ’85 for a very bad attack . . . could not walk by himself), among other things.

From age 64 on, he exhibited early signs of dementia or senility. I’m not a doctor so I can’t exactly describe it . . . but he had it. Something going on there. (From my readings of posts and discussions with people who worked directly with him face to face. Also, his personal doctor, Denk, has said as much, as corroborated by Bill Franks.) He suffered from an uncontrollable temper and rages as he got older.

He wished to die in 1985 and attempted to take his life in November, so we’re told by his close friend and confidant, Sarge. In 1986, he volitionally withheld proper medical treatment at a hospital for a stroke or two, so he would die.

By 1988, you, Marty along with Monique Yingling, Greg Whilhere, Miscavige, six PIs, and quite a few others had raided LRH’s former ranch at Newbury Springs and absconded with a treasure trove of LRH’s auditing folders and research notes. Marty and the other senior execs pictured above would have, should have known by then (with total certainty I’m guessing) that OT 9 & 10 didn’t exist in any way, shape or form. That the promises of the upper bridge were essentially unachieved, so essentially a fraud, and that LRH came to ignoble ending.

Can you share with us who were the originators and perpetrators of the lies and false mythologies post-1986? These events and stories did not just “happen” out of the blue. They were caused and invented by somebody(s). The bridge turned into a volitional false act and carefully orchestrated fraud at that point. Who are the liars and who are the enablers here? Who were the members of the secret cabal that knowingly lied for decades?

Otherwise, we have only a conspiracy of one, David Miscavige, and no one else knew a thing. Some have said as much.

Who invented the LRH achieved OT, LRH invincibility, and Target Two disembodied research stories after LRH’s death? DM? Broeker? Cooley? Who knew better but covered up the truth? Ray Mithoff?

Who invented the story that OT 9&10 existed and would become available? That one cost me about $30K in a donation for a future imaginary level. The RTC that Marty was the head of at the time sent out a letter about it in the early 90’s and I paid up.

Who wrote the Original OT 8 and which of the guys in the photo knew that it was not LRH? Who just went along to get along but knew better?

My theory is that these guys [in the photo] are locked up in “The Hole” because they know way too much and are too dangerous to be on the loose and free. If any of them talked and told the true details of the steps that were taken post-1986 to perpetuate the con, the COS would collapse pretty quickly. The easy solution then would be to keep them locked up and incommunicado until they pass away.

I believe that all these stories and lies were invented by specific individuals and then others hid the actual truths they knew. It cost me a ton in cash and personal grief. I’d like to know the “who” or “whos” behind all this.

Mike, what can you tell us? Can you finally name some names? Tell us what went on behind closed doors?

Back in 2018 you replied to me:
“Sorry. I don’t have time right now. You’ve asked a number of good questions here and each is somewhat complex to answer.”

Now you have the time and a format [a weekly podcast] for some longer discussions. I think many people are wondering about all this like I am, especially after wasting the most valuable years of our lives chasing a lie.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I were Mike Rinder's editor or publisher, I'd have pushed him to write a pretty hard-hitting expose --
as opposed to a People magazine, touchy-feely examination of his inner feelings and ideas, that is,
his path into sci and then out. My theme would go like this:

MR_billboard.jpg

That's the book I would read!

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

TheSneakster

Well-known member
Call me cynical, if you wish.

The major takeaway I get from Statpush's propaganda attack on Mike Rinder is that OSA hasn't managed to steal an advance copy of Mike Rinder's new book and therefore doesn't know exactly what claims they will need to Dead Agent in the media on the day it is released.
 

Karen#1

Well-known member
Lotus said on another thread >>>
Of wait, may be Mikes doesn't give a shit and write in his blog what HE thinks he shall write. :questions: >>>>
Lotus I agree with you.
Strangely, some Ex Scientologists feel a sense of *entitlement* on what Mike Rinder should do or write or reveal.
It's his life and he is sovereign to his own domain.
Few people have any idea of the cruelty he has endured for decades, starting when he was 18 years old, a 2nd gen born into it all
through no power of choice.

Statpush was a regular poster on Alanzo's blog.... (I don't visit but have been sent the Rinder attacks.)
Statpush's recent posts on this thread are remarkably duplicative word for word on Alanzo's repetitive attack lines on Rinder.
Hmmmmmmm......
 

statpush

Member
Call me cynical, if you wish.

The major takeaway I get from Statpush's propaganda attack on Mike Rinder is that OSA hasn't managed to steal an advance copy of Mike Rinder's new book and therefore doesn't know exactly what claims they will need to Dead Agent in the media on the day it is released.
I was thinking more like "delusional". Propaganda attack??
 
Last edited:

statpush

Member
Lotus said on another thread >>>

Lotus I agree with you.
Strangely, some Ex Scientologists feel a sense of *entitlement* on what Mike Rinder should do or write or reveal.
It's his life and he is sovereign to his own domain.
Few people have any idea of the cruelty he has endured for decades, starting when he was 18 years old, a 2nd gen born into it all
through no power of choice.

Statpush was a regular poster on Alanzo's blog.... (I don't visit but have been sent the Rinder attacks.)
Statpush's recent posts on this thread are remarkably duplicative word for word on Alanzo's repetitive attack lines on Rinder.
Hmmmmmmm......
Mike has made himself a public figure, which qualifies him to be scrutinised. I am questioning claims that Mike is "bringing down the church" or has somehow wrought harm upon the church by his "insider knowledge". I'm calling BS.

And why is it, Karen, that you and others lazily attack my character, while never address the content of my post? It makes you guys look bad.

Let's at least try and string together a logical argument, without resorting to childish name calling.
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
@statpush, you've become a much more polished and effective writer since we had back and forth
conversations years ago. Almost like a different person. What's changed? Have you been taking
writing classes or what? The improvement is dramatic! Bravo! :hattip:
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
Flash from the past 2012
Key Question
. . . DM [David Miscavige] ... surely after seeing all the crap that went down​
during the years you were around and then later -- during and following​
Hubbard's death -- DM couldn't have been a "believer" in the tech.​
Therefore, assuming DM saw the tech as a failure, why do you think he​
worked so hard to gain complete control of the church and has since​
"worked tirelessly" to keep the church going so long? Do you think it's​
really just been about the money for DM?​
cowboy ~ Aug 6, 2012
Absolutely not, it is not only about money!​
It is about money and power. What else could he do that would get​
him unlimited supplies of both?​
Personally, I have absolutely no doubt that DM knows that the bulk of​
Scientology is worthless. He knows the damage it causes.​
As I say, I have no doubt of the above.​
 

Bill

Well-known member
Flash from the past 2012
Key Question
. . . DM [David Miscavige] ... surely after seeing all the crap that went down​
during the years you were around and then later -- during and following​
Hubbard's death -- DM couldn't have been a "believer" in the tech.​
Therefore, assuming DM saw the tech as a failure, why do you think he​
worked so hard to gain complete control of the church and has since​
"worked tirelessly" to keep the church going so long? Do you think it's​
really just been about the money for DM?​
cowboy ~ Aug 6, 2012
Absolutely not, it is not only about money!​
It is about money and power. What else could he do that would get​
him unlimited supplies of both?​
Personally, I have absolutely no doubt that DM knows that the bulk of​
Scientology is worthless. He knows the damage it causes.​
As I say, I have no doubt of the above.​
Miscavige is a sociopath. It's about control. He has absolute control over people. He can abuse them any way and any time. For people like him, this is perfect. He never suffers any consequences. The money is only part of that which gives him total control over people.
 

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
Mike has made himself a public figure, which qualifies him to be scrutinized. I am questioning claims that Mike is "bringing down the church" or has somehow wrought harm upon the church by his "insider knowledge". I'm calling BS.
Yes, he IS a public figure and can be scrutinized just like the rest of us. I've not heard any knowledgeable people though make a claim recently that Mike is "bringing down the church", so that sounds a lot like a strawman argument.



And why is it, Karen, that you and others lazily attack my character, while never address the content of my post? It makes you guys look bad.

Let's at least try and string together a logical argument, without resorting to childish name calling.
I did address the content of your post, pointing out you had zero knowledge that would enable you to make the claim you did about Mike Rinder.
You could have responded to it by correcting the statement that I quoted or by presenting evidence demonstrating your claim was in fact true.
Instead, you just keep trying to change the subject.

Are you still standing by your original statement? If yes, please do what you wrote above, and string together a logical argument to support it.
 

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
If I were Mike Rinder's editor or publisher, I'd have pushed him to write a pretty hard-hitting expose --
as opposed to a People magazine, touchy-feely examination of his inner feelings and ideas, that is,
his path into sci and then out. My theme would go like this:



That's the book I would read!

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

book billboard.jpg




I love this billboard! And would love to see a real billboard like this posted in numerous places, including Los Angeles and Clearwater.
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
I love this billboard!
Me too, LOL. I think I know how to do "market positioning" just a little bit.

I actually think that billboard is way too strong for what's gonna be revealed
in the book, though I haven't a clue what's in the book yet. A billboard like
that implies there's a lot of meat on the bones to the book narrative . . .
ultra revealing, shocking, never before revealed, etc.

You write a strong book and put up a few of those billboards in key areas . . . .

Yeah, and that whole five million comes out of scientology whales' donations.
Don't let them see that billboard and start asking DM questions. Would be a
powerful strategy.

But . . . no one asked me. :whistle:
 
Top