Life is a dream... with pain.

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
Is it possible to wake up in the dream?
If by "waking up" you mean detaching yourself from your vegetative soul and from physical matter without losing one's personality/consciousness/self, then I'd say no.

Hubbard's claim that we are just spiritual beings is false. Our personality/consciousness/self is actually that part that dies with the body. So whatever is left is not really "you" anymore.


NOTE on language:

... I realize communicating about these issues is quite hard now that we aren't all just speaking Hubbardese anymore.
But that's how communication goes in the big world. A Buddhist will "speak Buddhist" to an Evangelical protestant, who will reply in "fluent protestant". Neither understands the other, even though they *think* both speak the same English.

Take my own wording from this very post: "Physical matter" and "vegetative soul". I doubt christians would understand these terms the same way as I do (unless maybe if they studied St.Augustine and Plato).
 

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
Hubbard's claim that we are just spiritual beings is false. Our personality/consciousness/self is actually that part that dies with the body. So whatever is left is not really "you" anymore.
Even a broken clock is correct twice a day. IMO, Hubbard was right about this. :thumbsup:

It's just my opinion based upon my own experiences and others I know. It's not something I've got an interest in debating.
 

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
Even a broken clock is correct twice a day. IMO, Hubbard was right about this. :thumbsup:

It's just my opinion based upon my own experiences and others I know. It's not something I've got an interest in debating.
Yeah, I guess some people like Hubbard have the sort of clock that's always says it is "25:00 PM"
 

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
Believe it or not, Hubbard didn't come up with the concept that we were "spiritual beings". LOL
I know. That's why I said other people have the same sort of broken clock :bleh:
 

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
Ahh, we have a follower of Plotinus on the message board. :coolwink:
Why waste time on all that new fangled woo when you can go to the source of all European woo? :D
 

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
I know. That's why I said other people have the same sort of broken clock :bleh:
We'll just agree to disagree, for now anyway. :coolwink:

I don't have the time or desire to elaborate on my beliefs.

I'll just leave you with this, from a letter written by Einstein back on Feb 12th, 1950, whose clock was working quite well:

A human being is part of the whole world, called by us “Universe,” a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separate from the rest — a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. The striving to free oneself from this delusion is the one issue of true religion. Not to nourish the delusion but to try to overcome it is the way to reach the attainable measure of peace of mind.
 

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
We'll just agree to disagree, for now anyway. :coolwink:

I don't have the time or desire to elaborate on my beliefs.

I'll just leave you with this, from a letter written by Einstein back on Feb 12th, 1950, whose clock was working quite well:

A human being is part of the whole world, called by us “Universe,” a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separate from the rest — a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. The striving to free oneself from this delusion is the one issue of true religion. Not to nourish the delusion but to try to overcome it is the way to reach the attainable measure of peace of mind.
Yeah talking about woo... the beauty is that nobody can ever convince someone else that his/her woo is better.
At least without undue influence, brainwashing, hypnotism and all that stuff that turns on J.Atack and S.Hassan :D

But speaking seriously, yeah talking metaphysics is far less interesting than it might seem.
 

Barile

Well-known member
Why waste time on all that new fangled woo when you can go to the source of all European woo? :D
I am concerned about the dominance of the letters 'P' and 'S' in philosophers names. Discuss....
 

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
I am concerned about the dominance of the letters 'P' and 'S' in philosophers names. Discuss....
Immanuel Kant. René Descartes. Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche. Aristotle. Democritus. Heraclitus. Thomas of Aquino...

Nah, its just you. :bleh:
 

Barile

Well-known member
Immanuel Kant. René Descartes. Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche. Aristotle. Democritus. Heraclitus. Thomas of Aquino...

Nah, its just you. :bleh:
ya... nah. I'm not concerned with Kant ... but don't you think all the others suspiciously have the letter 's'? ( note the letter 's' and 'p' in philosophy )
Jung discussed this... briefly.
 

Teanntás

Well-known member
 

JustSheila

Well-known member
If by "waking up" you mean detaching yourself from your vegetative soul and from physical matter without losing one's personality/consciousness/self, then I'd say no.

Hubbard's claim that we are just spiritual beings is false. Our personality/consciousness/self is actually that part that dies with the body. So whatever is left is not really "you" anymore.


NOTE on language:

... I realize communicating about these issues is quite hard now that we aren't all just speaking Hubbardese anymore.
But that's how communication goes in the big world. A Buddhist will "speak Buddhist" to an Evangelical protestant, who will reply in "fluent protestant". Neither understands the other, even though they *think* both speak the same English.

Take my own wording from this very post: "Physical matter" and "vegetative soul". I doubt christians would understand these terms the same way as I do (unless maybe if they studied St.Augustine and Plato).
Watching someone with dementia lose their memories and preferences but still retain awareness of self and others spiritually and still retain the love and connectivity can turn a lot of atheists into believers and in elderly care, usually does.

Some statements and insights I’ve witnessed from the dying would blow your mind. Not all, definitely not all, but some were a miracle in their last days and hours. The stories me and other nurses have to tell!

Few atheists last long in elderly care because of this. They either quit fast or find their faith. Atheism only really works as a theory from a distance, IMO. YMMV, but I recommend everyone with theories about religion and life spend six months working in hospice care to see for themselves.
 

JustSheila

Well-known member
And on a lighter note...
Birds must gather with their flocks/families at sundown to wind down and sleep peacefully. They’re high-strung creatures and this is probably one of their most important daily rituals. My female always flies to get me to join them and won’t settle down until I do. After all, I’m part of the flock. :grouphug: On the nights I wasn’t there, they would fall asleep waiting for me at the front window. :biglove:

Geronimo, my male cockatiel, likes human gospel music the best of all human sounds.
We all whistle together at sundown, with Fargo (my female cockatiel) on my head or shoulder.

We whistle taps (“Day is Done”) because it’s Geronimo’s favorite goodnight song and he likes whistling it. We sound terrible, all out of sync and off-key, but that doesn’t matter. We are whistling it together. :hug:

Then we finish and they are happy and at peace and walk into their cages, go to their favorite perches and fall asleep. Little angels.😴 💤
 

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
Few atheists last long in elderly care because of this. They either quit fast or find their faith. Atheism only really works as a theory from a distance, IMO. YMMV, but I recommend everyone with theories about religion and life spend six months working in hospice care to see for themselves.
I'm not going to take up the offer. Not because I'm not curious, but because I'm not qualified for those sort of jobs.
I'm an office worker in the financial sector. I know nothing about medicine or palliative care.
 

Cat's Squirrel

Well-known member
A very old idea.

Is it possible to wake up in the dream?

Having long departed $cientology,
Robin Williamson is again singing the sacred songs
he wrote before Scientology.

Vernon Howard used to talk about this a lot (that we were "asleep" and must "wake up") but I've never heard of its equivalent in Scientology.
 
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