Lee Spewing again....

Lee #28

Well-known member
I was reading a thread a couple days ago about AOLA.....and made a couple posts there.

But, I realized that it was kinda a old friends reunion type of thread.....of former SO personnel. Even though I was around AO for around 17 years....I really didn't fit in on the thread.

So, I came to the realization that, I was not SO...I was Public....and just didn't fit in.

When I first started posting on ESMB.....I drew the attention of Emma. She asked me point blank if I was trolling...

I said no. But realize that I do harbor much ill will and feeling for SO personnel in general. (my spewing)

Being Public I probably will never understand what being SO was like. Of course, I saw SO daily....at the Orgs and around the Complex. But what really was my personal interaction with any SO? Obviously, SO was circumscribed to interact with any Public is a particular way......entirely via Hubbard's Tech...

Anyway, I think this is an area of general Cult discussion....that is sorely missing from this board...and the former original ESMB.

I would really like some former SO to talk about how they viewed Public......what their Execs thought and said in relation to Public....what sort of Orders they got in how to deal with Public.

I really don't know what the Green on White says about dealing with the Public. Was it all kinda an ingrown culture?

I would be on a Routing Form.....and go here and there.....and do such and such,....but not really with a person....but rather with a Terminal....

Were Public just fodder? Just Particles...that had to be directed via prescribed paths?

Did any SO ever care about an individual Public in the Cult? (except as a source of money)
 

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
TL/DR

In a nutshell.....what I'm saying is that Scientology Staff / SO and Cult Public had entirely different experiences IMO...

And that deserves exploring.
This kind of thing has been discussed on ESMB in the past, but I'm not sure of all the threads. Here's one you may be interested in:

Scientology Staff and Public Caste Systems
 

Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
From the Scientology Technical Dictionary
WOG, 1. worthy Oriental gentleman. This means a common ordinary run-of-the-mill garden-variety humanoid. (SH Spec 82, 6611C29) 2. a wog is somebody who isn’t even trying. (SH Spec 73, 6608C02

A "wog" was somebody who wasn't even trying to "fix the universe", and was viewed with contempt by many public Scientologists.

What they didn't realize, was that to staff THEY were "wogs", they weren't really trying because they weren't on staff.

To Sea Org, regular org staff were wogs, because they weren't "all in".

And so on.
 

Karen#1

Well-known member
Greetings Lee. :hattip:

I never viewed Public who were non SO as anything other than those who were part of the GROUP I belonged to at the time.
Fellow believers.

The indoctrination in the cult is the THEM vs US. The "THEM" are *wogs* The "THEM" is the *wog* world, not fellow Scientologists whether staff or public.

This is the indoctrination in a 2 min clip... please watch it

 
O

Out Ethics

Guest
The hierarchy of Scientology / Know to Mystery Scale
The elite were at the top - Upper Management - I KNOW
Sea Org - the few, the chosen, the navy seals of the cult - I think I know
Staff - sacrificing to KSW - degraded beings that were a step up from public - I am pretending to know
Public - degraded beings who just think of themselves. Get their money - all of it. - I don't know but would like to know
Wogs - stupid little people - I don't know jack squat - it is all a mystery and I am just going sit here to enjoy my MEST
 

Dotey OT

We Finally Got a Puppy!
I was reading a thread a couple days ago about AOLA.....and made a couple posts there.

But, I realized that it was kinda a old friends reunion type of thread.....of former SO personnel. Even though I was around AO for around 17 years....I really didn't fit in on the thread.

So, I came to the realization that, I was not SO...I was Public....and just didn't fit in.

When I first started posting on ESMB.....I drew the attention of Emma. She asked me point blank if I was trolling...

I said no. But realize that I do harbor much ill will and feeling for SO personnel in general. (my spewing)

Being Public I probably will never understand what being SO was like. Of course, I saw SO daily....at the Orgs and around the Complex. But what really was my personal interaction with any SO? Obviously, SO was circumscribed to interact with any Public is a particular way......entirely via Hubbard's Tech...

Anyway, I think this is an area of general Cult discussion....that is sorely missing from this board...and the former original ESMB.

I would really like some former SO to talk about how they viewed Public......what their Execs thought and said in relation to Public....what sort of Orders they got in how to deal with Public.

I really don't know what the Green on White says about dealing with the Public. Was it all kinda an ingrown culture?

I would be on a Routing Form.....and go here and there.....and do such and such,....but not really with a person....but rather with a Terminal....

Were Public just fodder? Just Particles...that had to be directed via prescribed paths?

Did any SO ever care about an individual Public in the Cult? (except as a source of money)
I have been out now for a couple of years. Was involved for just about thirty years. On staff for about ten, in the SO for less than in year.

There have been a few times since I have been here, on either ESMB, where I could see the strata that is spoken about here in use.

I have had experiences with SO folks, both god and bad. So much of what I saw was the person being influenced by the training, pressures and mindset of the situation. There were a few folks that went out of their way to be nasty. I say fuck them. But that was both in CL V org, and SO.

In the org, there was an undercurrent of "the public is out ethics", or that sort of stuff. I'm sure that was the same in the SO.

I have had to push through that, even as of late.
 

Dotey OT

We Finally Got a Puppy!
While on this topic, there has been a few times where I was directed to a subject in the past, and that I should check in ESMB archives. That has been difficult for me, as I'm fairly newly out, and what I have been going through has been gone through by everyone else here (ho hum). You can read about that in the archives, let us get along with our discussion now, thanks! There was a little but of that, and I understand that, because factually, it's true. There are people here that have been out LONGER than I was in, AND they were in longer than I was.

I have a lot of catching up to do!!
 

Dotey OT

We Finally Got a Puppy!
Three words. You have to know these words in order to survive. They can get you through a lot. Civilizations have been lost without them. Cultures extinct because of their absence. The whole agonized future of this planet, every man, woman and child on it depends on it.

Fuck that shit.
 

Lee #28

Well-known member
Hi All, great replies, thanks!

I haven't read that link PTStype4....yet, I will.

And thanks for that short Vid, Karen#1

What about "no case on Post?"

Did SO and Staff really believe that they didn't need Auditing....and didn't need to go up the Processing side of the Bridge, as Admin Training would solve all problems? (or am I mistaken in that idea....?)

Were SO jealous of Wealthy Public? I don't really think so....but rather more of a hang on to them and "direct" them...

I guess there were many levels of "public" ....on up to Celebrities, that I would think were treated with kid gloves...


Edited: Was "no case on post" and "make it go right" considered a type of back door to getting up the Bridge?
 
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Dotey OT

We Finally Got a Puppy!
Hi All, great replies, thanks!

I haven't read that link PTStype4....yet, I will.

And thanks for that short Vid, Karen#1

What about "no case on Post?"

Did SO and Staff really believe that they didn't need Auditing....and didn't need to go up the Processing side of the Bridge, as Admin Training would solve all problems? (or am I mistaken in that idea....?)

Were SO jealous of Wealthy Public? I don't really think so....but rather more of a hang on to them and "direct" them...

I guess there were many levels of "public" ....on up to Celebrities, that I would think were treated with kid gloves...


Edited: Was "no case on post" and "make it go right" considered a type of back door to getting up the Bridge?
Where I was, there were two things that I would hear and people would apply.

Competence is above case gain.

Purpose is senior to policy.

These two short statements created havoc.

You did not need auditing to get products. Go the tough way.
 

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
Hi All, great replies, thanks!

I haven't read that link PTStype4....yet, I will.

And thanks for that short Vid, Karen#1

What about "no case on Post?"

Did SO and Staff really believe that they didn't need Auditing....and didn't need to go up the Processing side of the Bridge, as Admin Training would solve all problems? (or am I mistaken in that idea....?)

Were SO jealous of Wealthy Public? I don't really think so....but rather more of a hang on to them and "direct" them...

I guess there were many levels of "public" ....on up to Celebrities, that I would think were treated with kid gloves...


Edited: Was "no case on post" and "make it go right" considered a type of back door to getting up the Bridge?
It's a good thread. I think you'll like it.

Personally, I did not look down on public when I was a staff member or during my one year in the Sea Org. If anything there were times I wished I was a public, as they were getting auditing and training unlike myself.

I did consider though that staff and S.O. were taking more responsibility as Hubbard harped on that, writing stuff like "you can't go full OT until you take full responsibility across the dynamics" or some other similar BS. But I never looked down on the public like they were a bunch of DB's or anything like that.
 

Lee #28

Well-known member
It's a good thread. I think you'll like it.

Personally, I did not look down on public when I was a staff member or during my one year in the Sea Org. If anything there were times I wished I was a public, as they were getting auditing and training unlike myself.

I did consider though that staff and S.O. were taking more responsibility as Hubbard harped on that, writing stuff like "you can't go full OT until you take full responsibility across the dynamics" or some other similar BS. But I never looked down on the public like they were a bunch of DB's or anything like that.

I had forgotten the multi-faceted nature of the mind fuck of what Hubbard wrote.

Your post above reminded me of something that I read either in DMSMH or somewhere else at the very beginning of my Cult experience.

That was something written to the effect that ...."one should get oneself up to Clear and OT as fast as possible FIRST.....then help (us) clear the rest. (second)"

What I recall was that Hubbard had written this....and that ....."one wasn't much help and a liability until Clear and OT."

It is amazing that Hubbard came from so many different angles....to catch the minds of new people....in so many different ways.
 
D

Deleted member 51

Guest
I was reading a thread a couple days ago about AOLA.....and made a couple posts there.

But, I realized that it was kinda a old friends reunion type of thread.....of former SO personnel. Even though I was around AO for around 17 years....I really didn't fit in on the thread.

So, I came to the realization that, I was not SO...I was Public....and just didn't fit in.

When I first started posting on ESMB.....I drew the attention of Emma. She asked me point blank if I was trolling...

I said no. But realize that I do harbor much ill will and feeling for SO personnel in general. (my spewing)
Lee, darl', I remember your first posts very well. I am exSO and exAOLA and never thought you were trolling.

Emma was/is not exSO AFAIK. She was not ex-PAC public, either. It was different in Australia and besides, Emma had a cranky attitude on ESMB that might have all been an act, IDK (you know, the whole cigarette smoking bad-ass routine) but I told her myself that you were for real and not trolling and I never, ever had a problem with your posts. You're fine. :hug: You're not an outsider, you understand what was going on and I have no problem at all relating to you. It wasn't you, Lee.

If you want to get right down to it, those of us who dealt with the OT levels as staff OR public had a whole different reality than those who didn't. So there's another category for you, if you want to split it into more groups. :LOL: I hope you post on the AOLA thread more.

Being Public I probably will never understand what being SO was like. Of course, I saw SO daily....at the Orgs and around the Complex. But what really was my personal interaction with any SO? Obviously, SO was circumscribed to interact with any Public is a particular way......entirely via Hubbard's Tech...

Anyway, I think this is an area of general Cult discussion....that is sorely missing from this board...and the former original ESMB.
You lived broke and with an AOLA staff member and in many ways like an SO member. Through Steve, you understood a lot of things that general public wouldn't understand. We were all dedicated to the OT levels, ya know?

I would really like some former SO to talk about how they viewed Public......what their Execs thought and said in relation to Public....what sort of Orders they got in how to deal with Public.

I really don't know what the Green on White says about dealing with the Public. Was it all kinda an ingrown culture?

I would be on a Routing Form.....and go here and there.....and do such and such,....but not really with a person....but rather with a Terminal....

Were Public just fodder? Just Particles...that had to be directed via prescribed paths?

Did any SO ever care about an individual Public in the Cult? (except as a source of money)
I would have married a public person that I liked very much. I was told to look elsewhere and got in ethics trouble for getting that close. :sad: Broke my heart and confused me so badly, I couldn't even think straight.

I dealt with public much more than most SO members. I had childbirth classes from a public person (I really loved her for that!), lived off-base in a tiny efficiency apt for a while, had nannies that were public people and kept my son out of the Child Care Org after he got sick as an infant. I dealt with public people selling vitamins to AOLA, and went to NY George's with my call-in team for breakfast when stats were good and times were better at AOLA. When I was a letter reg or reg, I heard lots of personal stories from public. I empathized. You guys had it hard. In some ways harder than us, but in other ways easier. Personally, I loved most of the public, just not the arrogant rich assholes. I still hate arrogant rich assholes.

I let public off the hook as Public MAA (held from above) on a regular basis, Late for course? I just signed everyone off, BANG. :LOL: The supervisors got mad at me for that, but too bad. Except for a couple of sexual perverts ( with minors) that I came down hard on :mad:, I tried to make things as pleasant and happy and easy as I could for the public because I liked them. Of course, I was very young and pretty sure I didn't really know what the hell I was doing. :roflmao: So I had people talk to each other and acted as a referee to keep it civil and tore up knowledge reports and that seemed to work to make everyone happy. I tried to save public money by flattening the sec check buttons in the (free) MAA interview and speed them through their OT sec checks. I did my best to help because I didn't want them to do it hard.

As D/D of P for interviews, I did my best to help people by finding out what was wrong. D of P interviews were free, and I was very good at that job, too. I just talked to people, usually off the cans.

I was always a bit jealous of public because I secretly wished I was not in the SO. I could usually put myself in the public's shoes so treated people the way I would have liked to be treated and as fairly as was possible in Scientology.
 
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Lee #28

Well-known member
Hi Sheila. Liked you reply. I'm not complaining or anything....just airing some thoughts..

Another point is there are real life posts of SO escaping.....making plans of when to get away....perhaps stashing some cloths. When the guards are not as watchful.....how to get away..

Where as Public didn't really have those kind of physically hemmed in or being watched sort of problems. As a Public.....one went to Course...and then left and went home. Nothing really kept a Public from leaving. Except of course...having drank the cool aid and not wanting to leave. Rather wanting to continue on.

But my point is there is a big difference there. What that might exactly be....I don't know.

Public were not really worried about a Blow Drill...or Blow Team coming to get them..... (for the most part)...like SO.

Except perhaps Celebs. I use to see Kristie Alley around the Complex....and she did have a Handler or 2 always close by. I saw them. I assumed they were SO.
 

Lee #28

Well-known member
The hierarchy of Scientology / Know to Mystery Scale
The elite were at the top - Upper Management - I KNOW
Sea Org - the few, the chosen, the navy seals of the cult - I think I know
Staff - sacrificing to KSW - degraded beings that were a step up from public - I am pretending to know
Public - degraded beings who just think of themselves. Get their money - all of it. - I don't know but would like to know
Wogs - stupid little people - I don't know jack squat - it is all a mystery and I am just going sit here to enjoy my MEST
LOL Really good scale Out Ethics.

What is interesting is that the "pressure" if it may be called that for lack of a better word at the moment.......IMO got worse and worse.....heavier and heavier the more one traveled up the Bridge.

David Miscavage didn't come into a local org or AO and start punching out students....or Public sitting around an HGC.

But plenty of stories of him doing so in the security of the Int Base....and punching top level Execs....

Something really weird about that for sure. Plenty more for me to think about this....

One would think that after 10 or 20 or 30 years in the Cult....one would be accepted....perhaps even cherished....but that never happened. Nothing one did was ever enough. The so called Ethics Presence just got heavier and heavier..... No one was ever accepted really.
 

Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
Did SO and Staff really believe that they didn't need Auditing....and didn't need to go up the Processing side of the Bridge, as Admin Training would solve all problems? (or am I mistaken in that idea....?)
That was the biggest outstanding "out-point": if Scientology made you more able, WHY was management so stingy about letting staff get any? It's not like it would actually cost the org that much to have an extra auditor for staff

My personal opinion: auditing does not make you more able --- it makes you more SUGGESTIBLE and easier to control, which is the LAST thing you want for the people who are supposed to be doing the controlling
 
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