L. Ron Hubbard on God

Karen#1

Well-known member
Excerpt:

There are often questions about scientology’s belief in God.


Do they believe or don’t they?


Scientology goes to some lengths to make it appear “of course we believe in God, it is the 8th Dynamic in scientology.”


But what that means is pretty vague. Here is what L. Ron Hubbard says about the 8th Dynamic:~~~READ MORE

 

TheSneakster

Well-known member
Well now. Either Mike Rinder never studied Science of Survival (1951), missed this passage about the 8th Dynamic, or it was inconvenient to his narrative.

Ron Hubbard said:
One might postulate two more realities. The first is that of the Supreme Being. No
culture in the history of the world, save the thoroughly depraved and expiring ones, has failed
to affirm the existence of a Supreme Being. It is an empirical observation that men without a
strong and lasting faith in a Supreme Being are less capable, less ethical, and less valuable to
themselves and society. A government wishing to deprave its people to the point where they
will accept the most perfidious and rotten acts abolishes first the concept of God; and in the
wake of that destroys the family, with free love; the intellectual, with police-enforced idiocies;
and so reduces a whole population to an estate somewhat below that of dogs. A man without
an abiding faith is, by observation alone, more of a thing than a man. Modern science,
producing weapons for the annihilation of men, women, and children in wholesale lots, has
solidly run itself aground on the reef of Godlessness. Modern science has gone so far as to
advocate the rise of man from mud and clay alone; has denied to him even a semblance of a
soul; and so has not only solved none of the problems of the humanities, but has aided and
abetted Godless totalitarian governments which seek nothing less than the engulfment and
enslavement of all men and the extinguishment of every spark of decency in the breast of every
human being. These two tracks which have led away from the affirmation of the existence of a
Supreme Being -- modern science and totalitarianism -- are bringing man into a machine-like
state of being where the ideal has become a lump of muscle, greasy with sweat, or a grimy
mechanic serving a howling monster of steel. The arts, the humanities, and the decencies are
fallen away from, until they are like tiny stars shining across a great, black void. The
abandonment of the admission of a Supreme Being as a reality, intimate to the life of man,
makes prostitution the ideal conduct of a woman; perfidy and betrayal the highest ethic level
attainable by a man; and obliteration by treachery, bomb, and gun the highest goal attainable by
a culture. Thus, there is no great argument about the reality of a Supreme Being, since one
sees, in the failure to countenance that reality, a slimy and loathsome trail, downward into the
most vicious depths.
Disclaimer: I am not making any claims as to the validity of anything Ron Hubbard spoke or wrote concerning the OT levels or NOTS (which includes the Class VIII course). My remarks here only concern the accuracy of critic claims made about the contents of those materials.

As for Rinder's remarks about an implant with religious content (OT III Incident II) described in the Class VIII lecture Assists, it has often been falsely claimed by certain critics that Hubbard here claims God is an implant. That is not what the materials say at all. What they actually say is that this implant being described contains fake content concerning Heaven, God, Devils, Angels, etc.

Whenever the Routine 6 (R6) God is talked about in Hubbard's lectures and other materials, it is this fake implanted version of God being discussed and not the actual Supreme Being, Ultimate Creator of the Universe or whatever one understands to be the 8th Dynamic. So, yes, one may accurately claim that Ron Hubbard said that Roman Catholicism is based on an implant (R6).

That would include whole idea of this rabbi Yeshua ben Yosef (aka Jesus to most Christian denominations) being their notion of a Christ , the sole intercessor between God and Man to whom one must give up their own Creator-given free will and submit to as a spiritual slave. The RCC adds to all this a Pope who is supposed to be the sole human being qualified to speak directly to this Christ and convey His will to the rest of Christ's (willing?) slaves. Yes, all off that certainly seems to be included in Hubbard's claim in that lecture all of this is the use of the R6 implant to control people.

What is an implant in Scientology ? Well these are extremely nasty incidents on the Whole Track which Pre-Clear or Pre-OT experienced as a spirit in which overwhelming spiritual energies where used to knock them mostly unconscious and insert false chunks of time track containing single incidents or entire series of incidents into their mind. These false pieces of time track contain thoughts and intentions which do not belong to the PC or Pre-OT in order to control and alter their behavior to suit the purposes of the implanters.
 
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The_Fixer

Well-known member
It still scares me today to think:

Where would I have been if I stayed a believer?

It's only when you wake up that you realise the guy was a raving lunatic, other than those who spotted it straight off the bat.
 

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
Well now. Either Mike Rinder never studied Science of Survival (1951), missed this passage about the 8th Dynamic, or it was inconvenient to his narrative.



Disclaimer: I am not making any claims as to the validity of anything Ron Hubbard spoke or wrote concerning the OT levels or NOTS (which includes the Class VIII course). My remarks here only concern the accuracy of critic claims made about the contents of those materials.

As for Rinder's remarks about an implant with religious content (OT III Incident II) described in the Class VIII lecture Assists, it has often been falsely claimed by certain critics that Hubbard here claims God is an implant. That is not what the materials say at all. What they actually say is that this implant being described contains fake content concerning Heaven, God, Devils, Angels, etc.

Whenever the Routine 6 (R6) God is talked about in Hubbard's lectures and other materials, it is this fake implanted version of God being discussed and not the actual Supreme Being, Ultimate Creator of the Universe or whatever one understands to be the 8th Dynamic. So, yes, one may accurately claim that Ron Hubbard said that Roman Catholicism is based on an implant (R6).

That would include whole idea of this rabbi Yeshua ben Yosef (aka Jesus to most Christian denominations) being their notion of a Christ , the sole intercessor between God and Man to whom one must give up their own Creator-given free will and submit to as a spiritual slave. The RCC adds to all this a Pope who is supposed to be the sole human being qualified to speak directly to this Christ and convey His will to the rest of Christ's (willing?) slaves. Yes, all off that certainly seems to be included in Hubbard's claim in that lecture all of this is the use of the R6 implant to control people.

What is an implant in Scientology ? Well these are extremely nasty incidents on the Whole Track which Pre-Clear or Pre-OT experienced as a spirit in which overwhelming spiritual energies where used to knock them mostly unconscious and insert false chunks of time track containing single incidents or entire series of incidents into their mind. These false pieces of time track contain thoughts and intentions which do not belong to the PC or Pre-OT in order to control and alter their behavior to suit the purposes of the implanters.

What you quoted as coming from L Ron Hubbard I thought was authored by someone else?

And there is zero evidence that Hubbard believed a word of what you quoted from Science of Survival. As an example:
"It is an empirical observation that men without a strong and lasting faith in a Supreme Being are less capable, less ethical, and less valuable to
themselves and society."


Given this claim that men are less capable, less ethical, and less valuable without a strong and lasting faith in a Supreme Being, it seems that this matter would be addressed in some HCOB's, HCOPL's, and the Ethics book, but I can't recall a single instance of where it is addressed.

During my ten years involved with Scientology no one ever inquired of me what my beliefs (if any) with regards to a Supreme Being were.
Hubbard didn't give a rats ass whether Scientologists (including S.O. members) believed in a Supreme Being or not.
 

Veda

Well-known member
Well now. Either Mike Rinder never studied Science of Survival (1951), missed this passage about the 8th Dynamic, or it was inconvenient to his narrative.



Disclaimer: I am not making any claims as to the validity of anything Ron Hubbard spoke or wrote concerning the OT levels or NOTS (which includes the Class VIII course). My remarks here only concern the accuracy of critic claims made about the contents of those materials.

As for Rinder's remarks about an implant with religious content (OT III Incident II) described in the Class VIII lecture Assists, it has often been falsely claimed by certain critics that Hubbard here claims God is an implant. That is not what the materials say at all. What they actually say is that this implant being described contains fake content concerning Heaven, God, Devils, Angels, etc.

Whenever the Routine 6 (R6) God is talked about in Hubbard's lectures and other materials, it is this fake implanted version of God being discussed and not the actual Supreme Being, Ultimate Creator of the Universe or whatever one understands to be the 8th Dynamic. So, yes, one may accurately claim that Ron Hubbard said that Roman Catholicism is based on an implant (R6).

That would include whole idea of this rabbi Yeshua ben Yosef (aka Jesus to most Christian denominations) being their notion of a Christ , the sole intercessor between God and Man to whom one must give up their own Creator-given free will and submit to as a spiritual slave. The RCC adds to all this a Pope who is supposed to be the sole human being qualified to speak directly to this Christ and convey His will to the rest of Christ's (willing?) slaves. Yes, all off that certainly seems to be included in Hubbard's claim in that lecture all of this is the use of the R6 implant to control people.

What is an implant in Scientology ? Well these are extremely nasty incidents on the Whole Track which Pre-Clear or Pre-OT experienced as a spirit in which overwhelming spiritual energies where used to knock them mostly unconscious and insert false chunks of time track containing single incidents or entire series of incidents into their mind. These false pieces of time track contain thoughts and intentions which do not belong to the PC or Pre-OT in order to control and alter their behavior to suit the purposes of the implanters.
Can you explain why, a year and half later, Hubbard reversed his views on God, abortion, and sexual promiscuity?
 

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
Can you explain why, a year and half later, Hubbard reversed his views on God, abortion, and sexual promiscuity?

Veda, didn't someone other than Hubbard write Science of Survival?

Either way, I don't believe that the views expressed in the passage quoted by Sneakster represent Hubbard's true views. They don't align with anything else he ever wrote to my knowledge.
 

Veda

Well-known member
Veda, didn't someone other than Hubbard write Science of Survival?

Either way, I don't believe that the views expressed in the passage quoted by Sneakster represent Hubbard's true views. They don't align with anything else he ever wrote to my knowledge.
See this link

Hubbard regarded belief in God to be an indication of intense aberration. There's a thread on the topic on ESMB1 which, currently, is down. The pertinent quote can be found in the book Scientology 8-8008.

Hubbard called humans "wogs" and "homo saps." Science of Survival was written to appeal to "wogs" and "homo saps," during a time when Hubbard wanted to appear "normal."

Parts of Hubbard's writings are public relations, or dishonest for other reasons.
 

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
As HelluvaHoax says " Hubbard's law of commotion."
For every datum Hubbard said, there is an equal and opposing contra datum.

If there was a tech issue, I studied it. There was no *tech* course I had not studied.

There is no God in Scientology

There was no God, but there was a program done with intention of creating the image of L. Ron Hubbard as the next messiah, just like Christ, Mohammed, or Buddha.

Nancy Many wrote about it in her book "My Billion Year Contract" and Tony Ortega posted about it here several years ago:

So, maybe there was a Supreme Being in Scientology after all. :coolwink:

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Karen#1

Well-known member


SurvivingScientology

7 years ago

I support the 1st amendment I believe It is important that adherents to a religion are free to believe whatever they wants to believe.
It is Ok with me if people choose to bow to elephants with 2 trunks and walk backwards chanting mantras. Whatever.

My videos on no-God-in -Scientology Inc have nothing to do with whether God does or does not exist. It is whistle blowing on the deception that God, or "the 8th dynamic" as stated in the their own texts is an URGE. An urge to survive as a Supreme Being.
There is no deity or Supreme being over there. It is YOU. This fact is greatly covered up. Why do I make this an issue?
I am in touch with so many who served the Church 20 years, 30 years, 40 years and exited. They are no longer Scientologists. Some are in very very rough shape, mentally, emotionally, spiritually.

The Church that was supposed to make them higher and enlightened spiritual beings battered, abused and clobbered them. Some had mental breakdowns caused by the "Church" Some have PTSD symptoms from serving in the Sea Org with sleep deprivation, isolation, imprisonment. and unconscionable punishments.

They have nightmares. How can it be that an entity fooled the IRS sufficiently to receive Religious exemption as a bona fide religion ?
How can a malicious hate group masquerade as a religion while destroying lives ? And all along convincing the slaves within to believe they are saving the world ?

Clearing the planet ? How can this be ? My son Alexander was all too aware of the dark side of Scientology.

Alexander knew about SP Hole, he knew his father Heber had been imprisoned in there for years.
(Alexander had already been manipulated to disconnect from me the last 2 years of his short life. He was on his own.) He told a mutual friend of ours of how he tried to rescue Heber.
Heber was only *permitted* to see Alexander 11 times in 15 years.
On their last visit together they lingered in a car outside 6331 Hollywood Boulevard, the building of Office of Special Affairs. "Dad," Alexander said gently "Do you "Have" to go back to INT Base ?"
(Alexander knew of the "seances", the beatings, the sleeping under the desk punishments in SP hole.)
He did not want Heber to return to that. Heber hung his head. "Son, I have to go back" he said sadly. "I have done many bad things" he added.

That was the last time they ever spoke. Alexander was dead at 27 only a few months later. This is the Church that has you beg,borrow or steal $$$$ to give them, to follow a pathway to *Godhood.*



 

Reyne Mayer

Pansexual Revolutionary
Well now. Either Mike Rinder never studied Science of Survival (1951), missed this passage about the 8th Dynamic, or it was inconvenient to his narrative.
or, having been at the highest levels including around LRH, he understands better how such things were really viewed than someone at your level, fed the internal version of 'acceptable truths' or whatever?

my understanding it that things are really based on principles like 'command intention is senior to policy', and if policy is one thing for underlings and other for the top ranks, so presumably is doctrine. like 'code of a scientologist' for the rank and file, and 'responsibilities of leaders' ('Bolivar') for management.

gurus and group leaders like LRH generally seem to operate on and live out 'do as i say, not as i do'. is there some reason to be so certain that's not the case?
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
FAQ ON RON & GOD​

QUESTION: Did Ron believe in God?
ANSWER: Yes and no. It changed moment to moment, because reality in Scientology is a very fluid thing. Someone can be the world's most celebrated "Clear" one moment (e.g. John McMaster) and suddenly become most hated SP weeks or months later. What Doctor Hubbard discovered was that reality (like the weather/seasons) is ever-changing and one can only ascertain reality for a given moment in time.

example: In 1950 when Hubbard wrote DMSMH if anyone claimed that the tech did not work, they would have been attacked with Fair Game and expelled. However, later in the 50s Hubbard gave a filmed "Congress" speech where he openly admitted (i.e. confessed!) that the tech in DMSMH does not produce a Clear. Here we have the perfect showcase for the "Hubbard Law of Commotion"* in that the same statement (depending on when it is said) can be either the an ingenious breakthrough or it can be the ravings of an evil SP madman.

QUESTION: How did Doctor Hubbard solve this awful and perplexing problem of reality changing every second?
ANSWER: Ron helped develop an advanced electronics device which could be used to verify what is and is not true every moment. The e-meter! The expediency meter. Then the being can truly know what to do in every conceivable situation. Ron became so proficient at using the e-meter, in fact, that he no longer even needed to use it in order to make lightning quick decisions about who's been naughty and who's been nice, and what to do about it.



* Hubbard Law of Commotion: Analogous to Newton's Law of Motion—in Scientology, for each and every policy, code, bulletin or piece of tech there is an equal and opposite policy, code, bulletin or piece of tech.


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HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
As HelluvaHoax says " Hubbard's law of commotion."
For every datum Hubbard said, there is an equal and opposing contra datum.
If there was a tech issue, I studied it. There was no *tech* course I had not studied.

There is no God in Scientology
No God? But some Scientology super-celebrities swore they celebrated Christmas. Gee, that's confusing.

Like you, I never found ANY SLIGHTEST TRACE of there being a "God" in Scientology, other than as a marketing gimmick to convince wishful thinking marks that:
  • Trillions of years ago, the mark was a God, themselves, with miraculous superpowers.
  • If they dutifully obey all of the orders/commands of the Church of Scientology, they will very soon recover and regain all their God powers! ("Don't you realize that if you attain "OT" you can just snap your fingers and mock up $100M in real MEST cash money? So why are you even slightly worried about being able to pay your charge cards if you pay for your Bridge and give us a mere $650,000 today?")
The stark and stupid truth about Scientology and God is this. When a Scientologists completes the highest spiritual level, OT VIII, they are full cause over life and more. If they are in fact now a GOD, why when they are on course do they have to ASK PERMISSION to go to the restroom? Why, if they are a SUPREME BEING, do they have to beg for permission (in a formal written proposal) to change their schedule for one day if they have an unexpected business or family emergency? Why is it that a GOD is afraid to take a day off during a holiday weekend unless some flunkie cult fraud victim making $0.40 per hour signs their CSW in advance?

No, I am afraid they are not GODS. The only GODS in Scientology are the two (2) master con men who have ruled the cult with an iron fist since 1950—the Doctor of Divinity Hubbard and Minister Miscavige. Those are the only two beings who truly "made it" to OT.

And if you have doubts about that duo saving the universe, Scientology would like to inform you that you are having "unkind" or "critical" thoughts about Scientology's infallibly holy saviors. I wouldn't mention your "Doubt Condition" to anyone because it will immediately result in an increased tech estimate, a non-enturbulation order and a written demand from the Ethics Department that you pay for 50 hours of Sec Checks. And you might need a lot more than that if you evidence any other entheta about Scientology's twin Gods Ron & Dave. Just ask Leah Remini what happens if you disagree with those Scientology Gods--because she paid at $300,000 bill for 3 months of sec-checking at Flag for merely asking a question.

HARD FACT: The Scientologists imagine themselves to be Gods. But in their lives all that is happening is that they are frantically running around trying to find money to donate to Scientology and/or frantically trying to convince others to donate. Does that sound like what a "GOD" does for fun? LOL


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Type4_PTS

Well-known member
was a God, themselves, with miraculous superpowers.
  • If they dutifully obey all of the orders/commands of the Church of Scientology, they will very soon recover and regain all their God powers! ("Don't you realize that if you attain "OT" you can just snap your fingers and mock up $100M in real MEST cash money? So why are you even slightly worried about being able to pay your charge cards if you pay for your Bridge and give us a mere $650,000 today?")
If I wanted to pay for my Bridge but didn't have an extra $650,000 laying around I would write a CSW proposing that the CoS give me a credit line of $650,000 and once I reach the state of OT I will gladly exercise my new abilities, mocking up all the cash I owe plus interest. Out of gratitude, I'd even throw in enough extra cash so they can create another Ideal Org.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
If I wanted to pay for my Bridge but didn't have an extra $650,000 laying around I would write a CSW proposing that the CoS give me a credit line of $650,000 and once I reach the state of OT I will gladly exercise my new abilities, mocking up all the cash I owe plus interest. Out of gratitude, I'd even throw in enough extra cash so they can create another Ideal Org.
.

Hilarious!

I often use that kind of strategy negotiating deals where someone demands a cash retainer (paid monthly) to put a deal together. I don't want to pay monthly fees only to find out 6 months later that their deal didn't close. So I propose to them something along the lines of your great concept. I tell them I will pay them out of the proceeds at closing and even pay them MORE than they demanded.

They quickly retreat from their "total certainty" that the deal is going to close. So I politely remark, "well, if you are not sure your deal is going to close, then I'm not sure either, so why would i pay you in advance?"l

You bring up a brilliant point---that the Church of Con-ology would NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER stand behind any of their promises to deliver OT powers or any benefits at all. It's 100% a "faith based" business arrangement. At least in other churches (Christian, Moslem, Buddhist...) you can practice the religion and worship in a chapel that doesn't look like the cash-register-lined checkout lanes at Walmart.

The further I get away from that cult the crazier and more absurdly stupid it looks. I am hoping at some point that I find out I really wasn't in the cult but only imagined it. LOL


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Type4_PTS

Well-known member
The further I get away from that cult the crazier and more absurdly stupid it looks. I am hoping at some point that I find out I really wasn't in the cult but only imagined it. LOL
The further I get away from it the more it seems to me like it all happened in a previous lifetime.

Hubbard was clearly one of the greatest conmen of the 20th century, and the 21-year-old version of myself lacked a sufficient bullshit detector to see through it all.

It's been said though that anything that doesn't kill you makes you stronger, and in some ways, it did that for me or at least made me a bit wiser.
 
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