L. Ron Hubbard, hypnotist

[Veda]

Hubbard was a self taught hypnotist and quite skillful at it. He had a long history of hypnotizing himself, felt he could not be hypnotized by others, and was prideful of his ability to hypnotize others.

It can be debated which parts of Scientology are hypnosis or hypnotic.

TRs can be hypnotic but not always. The OT levels contain large amounts of hypnotically suggestible content.

Hypnosis is one of Scientology's many tools, along with bits of truth and some actual catharsis. It's a mixed bag.

Remember the solvent and the glue analogy. The (temporarily freeing) solvent evaporates and the glue (indoctrination) hardens.

The purpose of this thread is to define hypnosis and hypnotic.

It invites readers to contribute their succinct definitions of the noun "hypnosis" and the adjective "hypnotic,"

 

[Veda]

No takers.

I do absolutely agree that parts of Scientology are hypnotic.

Nonetheless, all past attempts at collecting people's succinct - in thier own words - definitions of the words hypnosis and hypnotic, inevitably, result in a dog's breakfast.

Can't blame you guys for not wanting to participate.

 

[M&M]

I had started writing a draft of the words below the very day you opened this thread, was interrupted near the end as we had a sudden power outage that lasted 2h, then totally forgot to retrieve it and post. Just added the last 20 words. Not completely satisfied with it though, but FWIW.

Hypnotic:
Any suggestion or action, self-inflicted or other-inflicted, by any means (openly or covertly) that causes oneself to agree to pursue a course of action and keep steadily at it while disregarding or just being oblivious to anything that might divert that course of action, and even by-passing our own safety alarm system (i.e. critical thinking + basic survival instincts).
Depending on the strength of our common sense convictions and our ability to detect obvious inconsistencies in said course of action, this can go from a mild and relatively innocuous self-hypnosis to extreme oblivion of one's own individuality under others' control.

Hypnosis:
The performance or application of such suggestions or actions.

 

[programmer_guy]

<snip>

Hypnotic:
Any suggestion or action, self-inflicted or other-inflicted, by any means (openly or covertly) that causes oneself to agree to pursue a course of action and keep steadily at it while disregarding or just being oblivious to anything that might divert that course of action, and even by-passing our own safety alarm system (i.e. critical thinking + basic survival instincts).
Depending on the strength of our common sense convictions and our ability to detect obvious inconsistencies in said course of action, this can go from a mild and relatively innocuous self-hypnosis to extreme oblivion of one's own individuality under others' control.

<snip>

Huh?
That definition would fit most things in my life.

Examples:
Childhood upbringing
Public/private school
Learning to drive a vehicle
Political party affiliation
Vegetable gardening
Computer software design

 

[programmer_guy]

In our modern times, I suggest that people who are interested in this topic start with lots of study on neuroscience research on hypnosis (brain activity).

After understanding what it means, and how scientists are measuring it (not e-meters), then set up 100s of SCN auditing sessions with 100s of people using the devices that neuroscientists use to measure brain activity. Then compare the measured brain results of SCN auditing with the measured brain results of neuroscience studies on hypnosis.

That's my 2 cents opinion.

 

[M&M]

Huh?
That definition would fit most things in my life.

(snip)

I used to be convinced that being totally focused at a task for hours long, to the point of ignoring (though hearing and discarding) irrelevant or just non-priority verbal interruptions was a good thing. I've been told recently that "being totally lost in what I am focused on is not normal".
Most assuredly it's something I acquired out of the TRs training, and I still view it as a good thing, however I am now gauging closer what can really be considered "normal" from a balanced/ healthy point of view.

 

[pineapple]

I agree that it's hard to define succinctly.

I'll say it's a state of increased focus and relaxation. The relaxation is not just physical, but includes some suspension of normal critical thinking. The subconscious becomes more accessible and hence the subject becomes more suggestible.

There are degrees of hypnosis ranging from mild trance to complete zombie-like somnambulism. Because you're not in the latter state doesn't mean you aren't hypnotized.

I have been knowingly hypnotized once. I was in a mild trance. I've experienced similar states while high on pot and while doing TR-0. I did not find it similar to meditation, which I did for about 2 1/2 years.

 

[guanoloco]

The thing is...for Hubbard and others including myself is the degree of Cause/Effect over someone else's intentions.

Hubbard even wrote that books have no hypnotic affect on him - or something to this degree.

It's some level of influence that other people have on or over your thoughts, actions, beliefs, etc.

For instance, one time I'm automatically criticizing psychs or psychiatry or something when it came like a bolt from the blue the idea was "is this my thought...or Hubbard's?" So I looked at it and then I started looking at all of the things pyschs are blamed for by Hubbard and Scientology and found that, just like the Story of a Squirrel where Miscavige is factually guilty of everything he accuses Mayo of Hubbard and Scientology are guilty of everything that they blame psychiatry for. Scientology and Scientologists as employed by Scientology committed all manner of crimes against me, my marriage, my family, my finances, my sanity and were, factually, guilty of everything they accused psychs and psychiatry of committing and that psychs had never actually injured me or anyone that I knew of...ever. That's when I discovered that this wasn't "me" or "mine" but was Hubbard...through-and-through.

To me that's hypnotism.

The idea or situation where an outside datum is taken on and affects you uninspected, unsuspected and automatically...like a virus. You operate off of it and think that's it's "yours" or "mine" when it's not originated by you but manufactured by someone else.

 

[pineapple]

The idea or situation where an outside datum is taken on and affects you uninspected, unsuspected and automatically...like a virus. You operate off of it and think that's it's "yours" or "mine" when it's not originated by you but manufactured by someone else.

But there are other ways of doing that -- implanting an idea -- besides hypnosis. Education and advertising both do it, but they're not using hypnotic techniques, necessarily. (Advertising has played around on the fringes of hypnosis sometimes.)

I'd say hypnosis is a technique that creates a state of heightened suggestibility that makes implanting an idea easier. It usually involves relaxation, focused attention, and getting you to suspend critical thinking. It can include getting you to fantasize, as in dianetic auditing.

It can include catching you off guard with a deliberate confusion.

"A confused person has their conscious mind busy and occupied, and is very much inclined to draw upon unconscious learnings to make sense of things. A confused person is in a trance of their own making - and therefore goes readily into that trance without resistance. Confusion might be created by ambiguous words, complex or endless sentences, pattern interruption or a myriad of other techniques to incite transderivational searches."

Milton H. Erickson - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I think some of Hubbard's unusual pronunciations of words, like ga-LAX-y and LIBBY-dough (libido) were probably intentional attempts to create confusion.

See also "Handshake Induction" in the above article.

And if you don't think you were hypnotized, fine, maybe you weren't. But I think Hubbs was certainly trying to hypnotize you. If he didn't succeed and it was something else that kept you stuck to scn, I don't have a problem with that.

 

[Harden Long]

But there are other ways of doing that -- implanting an idea -- besides hypnosis. Education and advertising both do it, but they're not using hypnotic techniques, necessarily. (Advertising has played around on the fringes of hypnosis sometimes.)

I'd say hypnosis is a technique that creates a state of heightened suggestibility that makes implanting an idea easier. It usually involves relaxation, focused attention, and getting you to suspend critical thinking. It can include getting you to fantasize, as in dianetic auditing.

It can include catching you off guard with a deliberate confusion.

"A confused person has their conscious mind busy and occupied, and is very much inclined to draw upon unconscious learnings to make sense of things. A confused person is in a trance of their own making - and therefore goes readily into that trance without resistance. Confusion might be created by ambiguous words, complex or endless sentences, pattern interruption or a myriad of other techniques to incite transderivational searches."

Milton H. Erickson - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I think some of Hubbard's unusual pronunciations of words, like ga-LAX-y and LIBBY-dough (libido) were probably intentional attempts to create confusion.

See also "Handshake Induction" in the above article.

And if you don't think you were hypnotized, fine, maybe you weren't. But I think Hubbs was certainly trying to hypnotize you. If he didn't succeed and it was something else that kept you stuck to scn, I don't have a problem with that.

I believe that a writers repetitive and unnecessary use of terminology that the reader has little to no chance of familiarity with does induce aneten which is a precursor to hypnotism.
After all, how many people carry a dictionary around when they decide to read a paperback? Plus Blubbard invented words that assured himself that people wouldn't know the meaning of without constantly having to look if he has provided these definitions elsewhere in the book.
Dianetics is one book that inspired aneten in more people than most books in history according to feedback on the book I've been made privy to, setting the reader up for being gradually implanted with Ron's gibberish without even knowing that the dulled, sleepy state they found themselves in while reading it actually opened them up to his devious suggestion.
He was a sly devil about slinging unusual words around to dull peoples analytical senses long before he would have the study tech dropped in his lap by the Berner's, though his intent then probably was more along the lines of impressing people with his extensive author's only vocabulary.
In the end it doesn't seem to matter how the subject comes to his fuzzy entrancement, whether by swinging a disk on a chain or the repetitive pounding his mind took from misunderstoods, LRH found this useful.

 

[stratty]

I believe that a writers repetitive and unnecessary use of terminology that the reader has little to no chance of familiarity with does induce aneten which is a precursor to hypnotism.
After all, how many people carry a dictionary around when they decide to read a paperback? Plus Blubbard invented words that assured himself that people wouldn't know the meaning of without constantly having to look if he has provided these definitions elsewhere in the book.
Dianetics is one book that inspired aneten in more people than most books in history according to feedback on the book I've been made privy to, setting the reader up for being gradually implanted with Ron's gibberish without even knowing that the dulled, sleepy state they found themselves in while reading it actually opened them up to his devious suggestion.
He was a sly devil about slinging unusual words around to dull peoples analytical senses long before he would have the study tech dropped in his lap by the Berner's, though his intent then probably was more along the lines of impressing people with his extensive author's only vocabulary.
In the end it doesn't seem to matter how the subject comes to his fuzzy entrancement, whether by swinging a disk on a chain or the repetitive pounding his mind took from misunderstoods, LRH found this useful.

It's kind of ironic really given the subject matter of your post, but any lurker reading it is going to come across a word you've used several times and are unlikely to find it in any regular dictionary. I'm talking about 'anaten'.

So for their benefit I'll provide an interpretation in layman's language: Inability to think straight/dozing off.

 

[Harden Long]

It's kind of ironic really given the subject matter of your post, but any lurker reading it is going to come across a word you've used several times and are unlikely to find it in any regular dictionary. I'm talking about 'anaten'.

So for their benefit I'll provide an interpretation in layman's language: Inability to think straight/dozing off.

Yeah, anything that puts you in a fuzzy la la land, whether that be hypnotic commands, shiny disks going left to right, left to right etc., or an overwhelming avalanche of unfamiliar words, jargon, concepts etc. can put one into a suggestible state where commands take hold and repeat back on them later. It's at the root of hypnotism to temporarily short out the subjects analytic powers, the means not being so important as the ends, so as to bring forward the sub conscious mind and allow it to be remotely programmed in such a manner as to effect the subject in some way in the future, mental land mines as in black dianetics. Words have power because society (we) empower words. A singular word is often used as the trigger by a hypnotist to make the young boy walk around showing people the baby kangaroo he's holding when no one he but can see it.

 

[stratty]

Yeah, anything that puts you in a fuzzy la la land, whether that be hypnotic commands, shiny disks going left to right, left to right etc., or an overwhelming avalanche of unfamiliar words, jargon, concepts etc. can put one into a suggestible state where commands take hold and repeat back on them later. It's at the root of hypnotism to temporarily short out the subjects analytic powers, the means not being so important as the ends, so as to bring forward the sub conscious mind and allow it to be remotely programmed in such a manner as to effect the subject in some way in the future, mental land mines as in black dianetics. Words have power because society (we) empower words.

It's been the subject of endless debate here, but if anyone asked, as far as I'm concerned, one of the things scientology did NOT do to me was hypnotise me.

 

[Harden Long]

It's been the subject of endless debate here, but if anyone asked, as far as I'm concerned, one of the things scientology did NOT do to me was hypnotise me.

Hypnotism doesn't work on everyone hypnotists have universally found. So I'd have to take your word for it that you were not.
Hypnotism only takes me part ways to the EP of being hypnotized during which time I'm been able to measure it's effect on the gradient of it's occurrence. In fact I've often been disappointed that I can't put myself into a diminished state when my life has been terrible and I would have just loved to slip into a partial or complete coma! I could never be the drunk who passed out in the corner, I was the one who just kept on drinking. I've been described as "hyper alert" more than a few times, with no end in sight.

 

[stratty]

Hypnotism doesn't work on everyone hypnotists have universally found. So I'd have to take your word for it that you were not.

I don't think anyone ever tried. Attempts were certainly made to control and manipulate me, but it wasn't via hypnotism is all I'm saying.

 

[Harden Long]

I don't think anyone ever tried. Attempts were certainly made to control and manipulate me, but it wasn't via hypnotism is all I'm saying.

Not to imply you because I'm no self professed expert on someone I'm never met in person but I would have to say that many were body routed in at full effect and as "pre-hypnotized" subjects.
Pre-hypnotized by heavy drug abuse, other assorted brain damaging events like motorcycle accidents etc., years of public education systemic abuse.
I had a horrible French teacher in 8th grade who left me essentially brain dead for 2 to 3 hours after every class with her.
She taught us to speak fluent French so as to impress the principal and garner her a raise though she wouldn't teach us what the words meant.
She would say "Emphasize the correct pronunciations and the meanings will become evident over time".
Well it all just left me with a migraine but to this day I still remember "Bonjour Madame McGlyn, comen talles vous, we je vavian mercy, a voes?" like it's been engramically hammered into my head.
Pardon my poor French spelling, but I remember it correctly in my head, just don't know what all it means.

 

[stratty]

Yes, and I remember all that stuff we were talking about the other day - "In the beginning and forever ..".

I remember reams of that stuff because I read it and re-read it trying to understand it and make some sense of it, but I was never successful in that respect. I'm certain I was never hypnotised though.,

 

[He-man]

The thing is...for Hubbard and others including myself is the degree of Cause/Effect over someone else's intentions.

Hubbard even wrote that books have no hypnotic affect on him - or something to this degree.

It's some level of influence that other people have on or over your thoughts, actions, beliefs, etc.

For instance, one time I'm automatically criticizing psychs or psychiatry or something when it came like a bolt from the blue the idea was "is this my thought...or Hubbard's?" So I looked at it and then I started looking at all of the things pyschs are blamed for by Hubbard and Scientology and found that, just like the Story of a Squirrel where Miscavige is factually guilty of everything he accuses Mayo of Hubbard and Scientology are guilty of everything that they blame psychiatry for. Scientology and Scientologists as employed by Scientology committed all manner of crimes against me, my marriage, my family, my finances, my sanity and were, factually, guilty of everything they accused psychs and psychiatry of committing and that psychs had never actually injured me or anyone that I knew of...ever. That's when I discovered that this wasn't "me" or "mine" but was Hubbard...through-and-through.

To me that's hypnotism.

The idea or situation where an outside datum is taken on and affects you uninspected, unsuspected and automatically...like a virus. You operate off of it and think that's it's "yours" or "mine" when it's not originated by you but manufactured by someone else.

I see it very much the same, to be indoctrinated, or "cultivated" into a set of principles that you are taught are unfallible and 100% correct through chinese drills, TR's, what have you. It's not your own thoughts, you're brainwashed into thinking according to that set way.

 

[He-man]

I see it very much the same, to be indoctrinated, or "cultivated" into a set of principles that you are taught are unfallible and 100% correct through chinese drills, TR's, what have you. It's not your own thoughts, you're brainwashed into thinking according to that set way.

Although I suppose that's brainwashing.

 

[M&M]

Well it all just left me with a migraine but to this day I still remember "Bonjour Madame McGlyn, comen talles vous, we je vavian mercy, a voes?" like it's been engramically hammered into my head.
Pardon my poor French spelling, but I remember it correctly in my head, just don't know what all it means.

Here's the correct spelling and meaning, might help to get rid of that recurring sentence ... your transliteration sounds ok.
"Bonjour Madame McGlyn, comment allez-vous? oui je vais bien, merci, et vous?"
Good morning Mrs McGlyn, how are you doing? yes I am doing fine, thank you, and you?